Series Land Rover durability
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
Yorker
Adventurer
haven said:
The biggest thing with the older LRs is their 1.1" 10 spine axles, in an 88 you'll get away with them for a long time but in a 109- particularly a heavily loaded or OVER-loaded 109 they will go to hell in a hurry. The Salisbury axle on later 109s solves this, more or less.
The other failures I've seen a lot of are broken leaf springs- that seems to be due to overloading or abuse as well- and it isn't unique to Land Rovers all leaf sprung vehicles potentially suffer from this.
The Transmissions aren't particularly strong BUT the engines are low powered and don't really strain them. The Series Transfer case is good and strong- it doesn't break in half under strain like a TLCs can.
Payload varies greatly by which series Land Rover you are talking about.
iirc:
max payload for an 88"= ~1400lbs
109 regular= ~2200
Frames aren't usually a problem on a LR because of their fully boxed design they are less likely to flex and crack with fatigue.
Thunderthighs
New member
9 0ut of 10 Land-Rovers are still on the road today, the other one made it home...
My dad used a 1976 88" for work for almost 20 years, never once left him stranded, and he's not big in taking good care of the truck either.
My dad used a 1976 88" for work for almost 20 years, never once left him stranded, and he's not big in taking good care of the truck either.
nickw
Adventurer
Landrover Series = repairability
Landcruiser = durability
Reliability, IMO, is a combination of the above two attributes.
I think MercedesRover had a good point, once all the shortcomings of a vehicle become known quantities that can be field remedied, it becomes reliable in a sense.
Nothing wrong with 10 spline axles, it is nice to have a 'fuse' in a drivetrain. That is the one downfall with the Landcruisers, damn stout axles that will snap R&P's and T-cases. Not stuff you can field repair.
Landcruiser = durability
Reliability, IMO, is a combination of the above two attributes.
I think MercedesRover had a good point, once all the shortcomings of a vehicle become known quantities that can be field remedied, it becomes reliable in a sense.
Nothing wrong with 10 spline axles, it is nice to have a 'fuse' in a drivetrain. That is the one downfall with the Landcruisers, damn stout axles that will snap R&P's and T-cases. Not stuff you can field repair.
Scott Brady
Founder
Want a good reason to own a Series Rover? Jonathan's expression is all you need to know...
Series trucks are fantastic in my mind. They capture so much of what overlanding is about, they capture the imagination of the owner, of what is possible. Older vehicles do that. When I look at the trucks that Series Trek builds, I am certain of the platforms capabilities for ultimate reliability and function.
The one glaring issue with Land Rovers from my experience is the manufacturing variability. One truck can be perfect, the next can be a nightmare. I love Land Rovers, and everything they stood for before the Ford invasion. My Disco II was a nightmare of repairs, but I also appreciate the fact that it (almost) never left me stranded. I had more issues with that Disco II in 30k miles that all of my Toyotas combined in over 300,000 miles. In fact, now that I think about it, I have never replaced a failed part on any one of my Toyotas, and I drive A LOT, and spend A LOT of time on the trail, fully loaded.
1977 Land Cruiser
1985 Land Cruiser
1985 Truck
1989 4Runner
2004 Tacoma
So far, my new Disco I has been a joy to own and drive, and is extremely impressive on the trail. I really like this Rover, and will do everything possible to keep it in top shape. It will be my daily driver (fortunately, I don't have a commute) and fun trail machine. It is tied right now with my all time favorite vehicle (tied with the 85 truck). I did need to replace a guide wheel on the rear window. The Distributor needs to be changed and there is a very small coolant leak from somewhere (just cropped up).
With a new vehicle, you gain comfort and road performance, not necessarily reliability.
I want to buy a restored 109 PU so bad... After South America.
Series trucks are fantastic in my mind. They capture so much of what overlanding is about, they capture the imagination of the owner, of what is possible. Older vehicles do that. When I look at the trucks that Series Trek builds, I am certain of the platforms capabilities for ultimate reliability and function.
The one glaring issue with Land Rovers from my experience is the manufacturing variability. One truck can be perfect, the next can be a nightmare. I love Land Rovers, and everything they stood for before the Ford invasion. My Disco II was a nightmare of repairs, but I also appreciate the fact that it (almost) never left me stranded. I had more issues with that Disco II in 30k miles that all of my Toyotas combined in over 300,000 miles. In fact, now that I think about it, I have never replaced a failed part on any one of my Toyotas, and I drive A LOT, and spend A LOT of time on the trail, fully loaded.
1977 Land Cruiser
1985 Land Cruiser
1985 Truck
1989 4Runner
2004 Tacoma
So far, my new Disco I has been a joy to own and drive, and is extremely impressive on the trail. I really like this Rover, and will do everything possible to keep it in top shape. It will be my daily driver (fortunately, I don't have a commute) and fun trail machine. It is tied right now with my all time favorite vehicle (tied with the 85 truck). I did need to replace a guide wheel on the rear window. The Distributor needs to be changed and there is a very small coolant leak from somewhere (just cropped up).
With a new vehicle, you gain comfort and road performance, not necessarily reliability.
I want to buy a restored 109 PU so bad... After South America.
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
That '85 was an awesome truck. It probably would have morphed into something not quite as versatile, so it's nice to have the memory of it when it was in near stock and near pristine shape. You never have been able to hold onto a vehicle.
Would I rather have a Defender as an expedition truck? Absolutely. As Scott has mentioned before, it kinda represents the pinnacle of the line. However, for the cost of buying a stock D90 or 110 in the states, you can build one hell of a Series truck (coiler frame and modern engine/drivetrain) and still have money left over for the trip.
I like simple. I like something that can be field fixed if required (although I prefer something that doesn't require a field fix). I think that if you address a few basic components (depends on the intended uses), keep the maintenance up, and operate the vehicle somewhere near design specs, a Series rig can be a reliable expedition platform.
Would I rather have a Defender as an expedition truck? Absolutely. As Scott has mentioned before, it kinda represents the pinnacle of the line. However, for the cost of buying a stock D90 or 110 in the states, you can build one hell of a Series truck (coiler frame and modern engine/drivetrain) and still have money left over for the trip.
I like simple. I like something that can be field fixed if required (although I prefer something that doesn't require a field fix). I think that if you address a few basic components (depends on the intended uses), keep the maintenance up, and operate the vehicle somewhere near design specs, a Series rig can be a reliable expedition platform.
MuddyMudskipper
Camp Ninja
expeditionswest said:
Sad but true.
The one thing that can't be preached enough is the maintenance and preventative maintenence. My 1997 Discovery I has never left me stranded and never given me an issue that has impacted my trips in such a way that I have had to abandon them altogether or left me with an unfavorable opinion of the marque. I attribute my truck's reliabilty on having been previously owned by folks who were meticulous in their maintenance and up keep. This afforded me the opportunity to do the same.
I currently have a couple minor details that are common to a Disco that has just turned a 100,000 miles but they are easily repaired and replaced (i.e. leaky power steering, replace steering end-links) as are most mechanical parts on the (now) older Land Rovers. So if repairs to somewhat modern Land Rover are a relative breeze even with some of the electronics, imagine how much easier it would be in a Series.
That being said, a Series is old and will likely need some work. How much work is determined by how nice of an example you start with. IMO its durabilty will ultimately be dictated by how much time and money you are willing to spend to fix what needs to be fixed for reliability, and build a truck with the proper kit to fit the needs of your travels. A Series (or Defender for that matter) is a simple truck that doesn't need to be made complicated.
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Mercedesrover
Explorer
One thing that gives me comfort driving a primitive truck with a mechanical diesel is the ease of diagnosing engine problems and being able to remedy them when they do occur. (Luckily I’ve experienced nothing worse than a clogged pick-up tube in the fuel tank in all my miles with this truck.)
If you’re getting a running problem with a mechanical diesel, there is really only one thing it could be outside a catastrophic failure, and that’s fuel supply. If you’re engine is getting fuel it will run unless there is a major problem with the engine itself. (Loss of compression, valve-train failure or injection pump failure, all if which is extremely rare on most diesel engines.) Someone on this board once described a diesel engine needing to tear itself apart before it quits running.
Even with a simple carbureted gasoline engine, as long as you have fuel and spark it should run. And both of these systems are simple on early Series engines.
On computer controlled, electronic engines, running problems can caused by any number of things and can be very difficult to track down, even with proper diagnostic equipment along. Some engines are simpler and more reliable than others, (Toyota comes to mind over Land Rover) but you’re still dealing with electrickery and locating and repairing failures can be difficult and expensive, or worse, impossible away from civilization.
If you read Scott Brady’s article in the current Overland Journal you’ll see he had a “check engine” light come on in his truck and I can relate to the panic he must have felt when he saw it. Luckily he had an OBDII scanner with him and the problem was simple, but had he not had a scanner and the problem something serious, figuring it out would have been difficult. A good selection of common parts brought along can ease anxiety and help ensure a successful expedition, but they need to be thought of beforehand and prepared for. Scott had thought ahead and was well prepared hence his problem was a non-issue.
As far as primitive Land Rovers being “durable” enough for overland travel, ya’ll know my opinion!
jim
If you’re getting a running problem with a mechanical diesel, there is really only one thing it could be outside a catastrophic failure, and that’s fuel supply. If you’re engine is getting fuel it will run unless there is a major problem with the engine itself. (Loss of compression, valve-train failure or injection pump failure, all if which is extremely rare on most diesel engines.) Someone on this board once described a diesel engine needing to tear itself apart before it quits running.
Even with a simple carbureted gasoline engine, as long as you have fuel and spark it should run. And both of these systems are simple on early Series engines.
On computer controlled, electronic engines, running problems can caused by any number of things and can be very difficult to track down, even with proper diagnostic equipment along. Some engines are simpler and more reliable than others, (Toyota comes to mind over Land Rover) but you’re still dealing with electrickery and locating and repairing failures can be difficult and expensive, or worse, impossible away from civilization.
If you read Scott Brady’s article in the current Overland Journal you’ll see he had a “check engine” light come on in his truck and I can relate to the panic he must have felt when he saw it. Luckily he had an OBDII scanner with him and the problem was simple, but had he not had a scanner and the problem something serious, figuring it out would have been difficult. A good selection of common parts brought along can ease anxiety and help ensure a successful expedition, but they need to be thought of beforehand and prepared for. Scott had thought ahead and was well prepared hence his problem was a non-issue.
As far as primitive Land Rovers being “durable” enough for overland travel, ya’ll know my opinion!
jim
Andrew Walcker
Mod Emeritus
OMG, say it ain't true!!! Better not let TLCA get a hold of this or they may revoke your card carrying status
overlander
Expedition Leader
4Rescue said:
I posted the link to this thread on the TLCA forum site before I read this... Is that bad? P.S. If anybody from TLCA asked you about me, tell them I have an FJ40...
ShearPin
Adventurer
I don't have a whole lot more to add - good advice here. I've run my Series III 88" "Eore" for over 13 years now. We have covered some distance together and never been left immobile. I've had some long slow rides home but never hesitated to point it in any direction I've wanted to go.
In my experience, it's the reality of life on the road in a Series that gets most people. While there is the slow speed, exposure to the elements, noise - it is the maintenance that requires a real enthusiasm and understanding. During long highway days I'll start with a fluid check and top up along with another at lunch. I'll check it at dinner as well if I am continuing on into the night.
If I am out more then a week I'll spend some time in coveralls checking for loose bolts, status of recent road repairs etc. This maintenance time takes away from sleeping in, hikes, sunsets, local markets etc. Toss in a tinker on the side of the highway 6 hours into a 10 hour day in 90 degree heat - leaving you sweating and greasy - not for everybody.
Quality of parts and rebuilds is another problem I've run into. Some of the aftermarket stuff coming out of England is crap. In addition, some of the rebuilds are also junk. I had a run of 3 transmissions that leaked terribly. I changed the 3 in a 4 month period. I bought from one of the biggest Series parts sellers in the US and they honored their warranty - much to their credit. The second I swapped in 6 hours - seats in ready to drive. Woke up in the morning to find 1/4 quart of 90W on the garage floor. Didn't drive one mile. My experience has been to make the time to do the work yourself.
On most of my trips no oil need be added during the daily checks. Weekly inspections yielded nothing. Each rebuild or repair of worn or previous owner bodge gave me confidence and had me looking farther afield for the next trip.
The beauty is in the simplicity...
Henry
www.4x4freedom.com
In my experience, it's the reality of life on the road in a Series that gets most people. While there is the slow speed, exposure to the elements, noise - it is the maintenance that requires a real enthusiasm and understanding. During long highway days I'll start with a fluid check and top up along with another at lunch. I'll check it at dinner as well if I am continuing on into the night.
If I am out more then a week I'll spend some time in coveralls checking for loose bolts, status of recent road repairs etc. This maintenance time takes away from sleeping in, hikes, sunsets, local markets etc. Toss in a tinker on the side of the highway 6 hours into a 10 hour day in 90 degree heat - leaving you sweating and greasy - not for everybody.
Quality of parts and rebuilds is another problem I've run into. Some of the aftermarket stuff coming out of England is crap. In addition, some of the rebuilds are also junk. I had a run of 3 transmissions that leaked terribly. I changed the 3 in a 4 month period. I bought from one of the biggest Series parts sellers in the US and they honored their warranty - much to their credit. The second I swapped in 6 hours - seats in ready to drive. Woke up in the morning to find 1/4 quart of 90W on the garage floor. Didn't drive one mile. My experience has been to make the time to do the work yourself.
On most of my trips no oil need be added during the daily checks. Weekly inspections yielded nothing. Each rebuild or repair of worn or previous owner bodge gave me confidence and had me looking farther afield for the next trip.
The beauty is in the simplicity...
Henry
www.4x4freedom.com