Sidewall strength, tire pressure, and tire quality

[OSV]

You are a troll. I showed you how 12 year old 4 side ply C's out flex and out grip you new E's with pics.

that's what you tried to do in the beginning of your post(fail), but then, no, what you went on to do was post irrelevant pics of a flat tire against the side of a rock, in a failed attempt to justify those overpriced 15" stauns that you are stuck with.

you whined in the other thread about not having any tire choices, while at the same time failing to realize that it's your 15" wheels and idiotic c-rated fixation that's limited the selection of available tires.

when the o.p. stated that he couldn't get the tire he was looking at in a c-rating, it just never registered with you, lol

you've postwhored this thread with **************-stupid troll comments like "There is not one thing an E does better on a light vehicle" and "A D8 dozer has steel tracks but we don't use them because they beat you to death."

now your feelings are hurt because you can't justify trying to fix your cut sidewall on that rotten tire.

 

[proper4wd]

Well, I think it's clear now who the stubborn, childish ones are :luxhello:

Quick question - Robert Bills, I know you cant resist clicking on the "view post" link even though I'm on your ignore list - if a C-rated tire is better than an E-rated tire, wouldn't a P-metric tire be better than a C?

Is it possible that a C-rated tire has a *stronger* sidewall than an E?

(the answer to both of these questions is obviously no, and adds further to the pile of evidence against your silly argument)

 

[Stumpalump]

E tires really don't flex or preform well off road.

On post 94 yesterday I showed what a C rated tire does at 16 psi. Today I used the same 16 psi with an E rated BFG KM2 on the same rock.



My biggest problem yesterday was not feeling the rock or seeing the hood rise. With the E, I had to hold the wheel and steer up the rock as the whole vehicle lifted.



With the C, the inside of the tire stayed flat on the ground. With the E, I was able to put my fist under the tire. That's why E tires ride so ruff.



The Jeep with the C is 3500 lbs and the van is 10,000 lbs but since I did not weigh each wheel let's say it was only twice the weight on the tire. It should have flexed twice as well and rode over the rock smooth but these tires do not flex well even aired down.



I would never air down from 70 to 16 so my real world results are much much worse at 28. They don't flex nearly as well in the most important tread block area. With twice the weight they are still twice as stiff so all that shock and vibration will transfer to the vehicle and driver. That wears both out twice as fast. I ran D rated on the van for two years until I started adding weight and towing a trailer and they were much better performing.

The E's are also hard rubber so they spin and chunk. I ripped entire tread blocks off of these BFG before road hazard insurance replaced them. You will be much happier with the traction and better off with the ride quality that won't beat you and the vehicle up with C or D rated tires. First thing I noticed when I went to E on the van was that stuff falls off the shelves more often. I went from full stiff to full loose on the adjustable shocks, modified the bump stops because it hits harder and replaced chewed up suspension bushings caused by the harsh tires. I have to use E on the van on the hiway but off road or bumpy streets they are very poor.

 

[MOguy]

you can't even defend your own arguments, like that ghetto fix you did with the big sidewall rip on the rotten tire.

you keep telling us how bad e-rated tires are, but you can't speak from first-hand experience, because you are running worn out c-rated tires.

I can.

I have ripped E rated truck tires will cutting fire wood in areas less rough they where I run my Jeep with the C rated (ones designed to have strong wall against puncture) skidding logs our to the truck with the E rated tires.

The sidewall on the E rated tires on my truck are thinner and weaker (puncture resistance) then the C rated on my Jeep. They don't have the same "puncture" resistance. I am sure if I got the same E rated tires on my truck as I do on my Jeep they would not have ripped. BUT just because they are E rated doesn't mean they have the same properties as a tire designed for off roading with a stronger side wall.

I have a friend how has a Tacoma, be bought some 3 rated MTRs that came of a Wrangler. The Wrangler guy didn't like the E rated and sold them for a great deal to my friend. My friend quickly dumped them because they didn't flex and traction sucked. He got some C rated Coopers of some sort, designed with a puncture resistant type side wall and like them much better.

 

[OSV]

a couple of years ago this website ran a comparison between various e-rated all-terrain tires, which proved that they are not all the same... that is contrary to the rubbish generalizations posted in this thread by stump and robert.

http://expeditionportal.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road/

 

[Stumpalump]

I can.

I have ripped E rated truck tires will cutting fire wood in areas less rough they where I run my Jeep with the C rated (ones designed to have strong wall against puncture) skidding logs our to the truck with the E rated tires.

The sidewall on the E rated tires on my truck are thinner and weaker (puncture resistance) then the C rated on my Jeep. They don't have the same "puncture" resistance. I am sure if I got the same E rated tires on my truck as I do on my Jeep they would not have ripped. BUT just because they are E rated doesn't mean they have the same properties as a tire designed for off roading with a stronger side wall.

I have a friend how has a Tacoma, be bought some 3 rated MTRs that came of a Wrangler. The Wrangler guy didn't like the E rated and sold them for a great deal to my friend. My friend quickly dumped them because they didn't flex and traction sucked. He got some C rated Coopers of some sort, designed with a puncture resistant type side wall and like them much better.

My results have been the same with E. If they don't rip the wood goes right thru the side. The rubber is to hard to flex so it rips. After that tiny rock I tested on yesterday look how the tread blocks started to crack.



It's not just the tread that cracks due to the hard rubber but the inside cracks and separates as well. That simple test ruined a relatively new BFG KM2. Look at the bubbled up tread against the straight edge 100 miles after running over that small rock in my driveway.



The tires were so new that Discount Tire did not deduct any road hazard money for wear. All I'm paying for is the new road hazard. They know E tires suck so they looked carefully and decided to order and replace both front tires. Again. The only other time these tires have been aired down was when we ran the 100 miles of dirt roads at OX16. 50 front 60psi rear was what I dared to air down too. Only thing good about the E is that Discount Tire keeps giving me new ones. I love that store!

 

[Stumpalump]

a couple of years ago this website ran a comparison between various e-rated all-terrain tires, which proved that they are not all the same... that is contrary to the rubbish generalizations posted in this thread by stump and robert.

http://expeditionportal.com/where-the-rubber-meets-the-road/

The Overland Journal along with the stuff posted on ExPo's home page can be taken for gospel. The mag is the first piece of kit one should buy if they have any interest in Overlanding, travel, off roading or camping.
http://store.overlandjournal.com/subscribe/subscribe-or-renew/

You posted the only tire in their group with a 2 ply side. It's so weak that the tiny bit of extra rubber of the lettering deformed the whole sidewall. With the hard rubber to hold 80psi that tire will pop easy.
The reason that tire won was because it was the thinnest E tire in the group. The rest are just too hard and stiff to work any better.

Let's look at what else they say about E tires:

Poor adhesion
Poor wet traction performance
Excessive lug chipping and tearing

Failed rock climb
Unpredictable at high speeds on dirt and pavement
Poor straight line braking performance

Vague on-center feel
Trends towards oversteer on dirt
Fast wearing due to soft compound and lug pattern depth

Almost all of these things were mentioned in this thread. You even gave a fine example of failed rock climb on Cliff Hanger trail until the guy backed up and nailed the gas. You learned about our experiance with chipping, and tearing just like they had. The same hard sidewalls we discussed and the flopping left and right was noted in the article with vague on-center feel, poor straight line breaking and oversteer. One poor tire attempted to overcome the bad traits of an E with soft, fast wearing short lugs. We could ask them to do a similar test and include a C and D for comparison but the evaluations and information posted here mirrors what the worlds finest authorities at the Overland Journal proved.

 

[proper4wd]

Holy hell you guys are still going on about this?

By the way, your van tires are seriously overinflated. Look at the crown in that tread. Yikes. Maybe they'd work better at 40-50psi, if you dare.

 

[Stumpalump]

Holy hell you guys are still going on about this?

By the way, your van tires are seriously overinflated. Look at the crown in that tread. Yikes. Maybe they'd work better at 40-50psi, if you dare.

You really are a clueless troll. Following your advise is going to get somebody killed.

 

[proper4wd]

You have a remarkable penchant for the dramatic. If I were to believe you, then "airing down" an E rated off road tire to 60psi and driving over a small rock is going to so severely damage the tire that one risks life and limb doing so. Get a grip on reality - for your own sake.

 

[proper4wd]

Shall we reference load inflation tables? What size tire is that - 285/75R16? On what rim width? You already said your van weighs 10k.

 

[andrew61987]

OP here - MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

I've decided on the ST Maxx which only come in E. From what I can gather in this thread everybody would likely agree that this, at the very worst, isn't a terrible move for my intended purpose, all things considered. I will chalk test to determine street tire pressure.

255/85 would be awesome, but damn for some reason they are quite a price hike up from 235/85. Don't think I can justify that for an extra 1/2" of height, especially when I'm trying to save my pennies for a real suspension upgrade.

Who buys road hazard insurance? It would be about $150 for all 5 tires, which is about the price of a new tire so I'd essentially have to bust TWO tires to pay for it. I feel like it's still a no brainer but would love to hear thoughts.

 

[OSV]

The Overland Journal along with the stuff posted on ExPo's home page can be taken for gospel.

except that you aren't taking it for gospel, as the rest of your rubbish post proves:

You posted the only tire in their group with a 2 ply side. It's so weak that the tiny bit of extra rubber of the lettering deformed the whole sidewall.

gee that's funny, given that you posted a flat tire next to a rock a couple of days ago, that had the entire sidewall folded over onto itself... your 14 year old rotten junk tires are so deformed that they must also have really weak sidewalls.

you claim that sidewall deformation is good only when it suits your failed idea of how tires work, and no, you are wrong, the cooper isn't "the only tire in the group with a 2 ply side"

With the hard rubber to hold 80psi that tire will pop easy.

first you tell us that the overland journal is gospel, then you contradict that by claiming that the tire that was chosen #1 by the co-founder of the overland journal is garbage... hilarious.

The reason that tire won was because it was the thinnest E tire in the group. The rest are just too hard and stiff to work any better.

wrong again stump, the two-ply Falken Wildpeak A/T had a thick sidewall, and it was the best performer on dry rock.

"It offered class-leading dry-rock traction... During the granite climb test the tire’s rubber compound performed magic. Though carcass deformation was average, we were able to climb, back down, stop in the middle, and climb again. When considering the tire’s rather tame appearance, we were extremely impressed. We were also pleased with the WildPeak’s durability, experiencing minimal smearing and no chunking or tearing of the lugs. Though it is only a two-ply design, its sidewall was one of the thickest in the test. Quality of construction is excellent and we found the carcass to be extremely durable."

 

[OSV]

OP here - MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE

lol... my guess is that it's more about what you didn't do, as in, you haven't put stump on ignore.

i buy road hazard insurance from discount tire, because my tires are over $400 each, and the replacement tires under the insurance were ~$77(?) each, after balancing and tax... it's not as clear-cut with much cheaper tires like yours, one thing to keep in mind is how long the warranty is good for.

 

[Robert Bills]

. . . I've decided on the ST Maxx which only come in E. From what I can gather in this thread everybody would likely agree that this, at the very worst, isn't a terrible move for my intended purpose, all things considered. I will chalk test to determine street tire pressure.

. . . Who buys road hazard insurance? It would be about $150 for all 5 tires, which is about the price of a new tire so I'd essentially have to bust TWO tires to pay for it. I feel like it's still a no brainer but would love to hear thoughts.

The ST/Maxx is a great choice for the offroad terrain in Northern California. The advantage of the 3-ply sidewalls and “Armor-Tek3” carcass construction in that terrain outweighs any disadvantage from running E load range tires on such a light vehicle.

If by "extended warranty" you mean the replacement certificates from America's Tire, the advantage over the factory tire warranty or other aftermarket mileage pro-rated warranties is that America's Tire won't care how many miles are on the tires, or if you abused the tires on the toughest trail, or even if they were intentionally vandalized by some thug cruising the parking lot of your local cinema, America's Tire will replace the tire with no questions asked. Many other warranties cover road hazards but not trail damage or intentional damage. While I might take a chance on the factory warranty with inexpensive street tires on a commuter car, I always purchase the America's Tire replacement certificates for the tires on my offroad rigs and for the RV's I have owned. The certificates have paid for themselves many times over since I started doing business with the company in the 1970's. Also, I have usually been able to negotiate a good enough price on the tires in comparison to the other tire shops in town by agreeing to buy the certificates that they really didn't add that much to the bottom line price.

[Note: my calculation of breakeven is a bit different than yours - for nearly every set of tires I have purchased from America's Tire the house won if none of the tires suffered a non-repairable failure, I broke even if one tire had to replaced, and I "won" if two needed to be replaced.]