Sounds like Stellantis is on the right path.

[rruff]

...looks like even the military realizes that 100% battery power isn't feasible yet and wants to look at other options.

Wut?!

If there is ever a place where you'd want the portability of liquid fuel, it's where there is zero infrastructure for anything.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

“Ensure the wealth of a small portion of the planet while betraying the rest of humanity” Is that a slogan on the bosses t-shirt at the cobalt mine?

Perhaps, better stop buying drill bits and cell phones and cordless drills…

Nevermind the cobalt used at refineries for desulfurization of gasoline, diesel, kerosene, jet fuel…

Also Cobalt is less than 3% of Tesla Li-ion battery content and no lithium is used at all in LFP batteries. Important to also remember the cobalt is not consumed in batteries and can be separated, along with all the other minerals in a battery, once no longer usable.

So how are we going to get refineries off of cobalt? “Artisanal” mining was never such a moral outrage until EVs came along.

 

[NevadaLover]

Wut?!

If there is ever a place where you'd want the portability of liquid fuel, it's where there is zero infrastructure for anything.

And also here in rural America and other places around the world, not just battlefields.

We are still going to need ICE power for a lot longer than some people think, yet some people argue that ICE is killing the world and needs to go now.

 

[2025 deleted member]

Perhaps, better stop buying drill bits and cell phones and cordless drills…

Nevermind the cobalt used at refineries for desulfurization of gasoline, diesel, kerosene, jet fuel…

Also Cobalt is less than 3% of Tesla Li-ion battery content and no lithium is used at all in LFP batteries. Important to also remember the cobalt is not consumed in batteries and can be separated, along with all the other minerals in a battery, once no longer usable.

So how are we going to get refineries off of cobalt? “Artisanal” mining was never such a moral outrage until EVs came along.

I’ve got no problems with it- just pointing out your misguided outrage.

 

[NevadaLover]

“Artisanal” mining was never such a moral outrage until EVs came along.

Seems to me that your high horse is lame!

If you think for one second that all mining in general has been immune to "moral outrage" along with protests, shutdowns, sabotage and hate, before EV's came along then you obviously view the world thru very special glasses and refuse to believe the tiny bit of light that does filter thru them!!

Take a chill pill before you stroke out, this isn't a case of the sky is falling and you aren't chicken little, EV's will become more and more popular once technology advances enough that their shortcomings aren't so extensive for the masses, but here's the catch, that day is still years, if not decades away.

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Seems to me that your high horse is lame!

If you think for one second that all mining in general has been immune to "moral outrage" along with protests, shutdowns, sabotage and hate, before EV's came along then you obviously view the world thru very special glasses and refuse to believe the tiny bit of light that does filter thru them!!

Take a chill pill before you stroke out, this isn't a case of the sky is falling and you aren't chicken little, EV's will become more and more popular once technology advances enough that their shortcomings aren't so extensive for the masses, but here's the catch, that day is still years, if not decades away.

I’m just trying to ad some actual citable facts to the stream of miss information in this thread. Otherwise it just reads like forwards from grandma.

I’m not trying to trigger anyone or converse with someone who came here to pick an argument. I know there are people reading this that aren’t responding.

The anti-EV commenters here, in an EV forum, won’t be swayed by anything I say.

 

[driveby]

IMHO the larger issue is going to be filling stations. As in the number of them that survive as fuel only dwindles. As more EV get purchased in urban areas the profitability of fuel stations will fade. We saw this in the 80's when there was a gas station on every corner, now it's one every few miles except on Interstates. And I think there is a huge divide in urban vs rural. That 60 miles is an average that covers all. I know I drive very little per year and since work from home became available to more folks, it's not going to grow. Just look at all that empty office space in every downtown city. So for 75+% of actual truck owners who drive kids to school, load up at Costco and 4x a year to Home Depot that truck is perfect. The ones who will suffer are the folks that tow long distances or heavy payload needs. We need those millions of F150 grocery getters being sold to support our 1 ton habits

 

[nickw]

Seems to me that your high horse is lame!

If you think for one second that all mining in general has been immune to "moral outrage" along with protests, shutdowns, sabotage and hate, before EV's came along then you obviously view the world thru very special glasses and refuse to believe the tiny bit of light that does filter thru them!!

Take a chill pill before you stroke out, this isn't a case of the sky is falling and you aren't chicken little, EV's will become more and more popular once technology advances enough that their shortcomings aren't so extensive for the masses, but here's the catch, that day is still years, if not decades away.

If ever? I mean there are a lot of technologies out there but how many will actually come to fruition? It's easy to look at tech and assume it scales like Moores law....but we've reached a point with batteries that we may not get much better, at least in near future. We hear all the time that it's "just a matter of time"....is it really? We don't know what we don't know.

I met a guy who was int he EV/Battery development space, this was 2-3 years ago now, he said all major improvements have been made and a lot of the tech that is being used now is lipstick....aerodynamics, more fuel efficient tires, regenerative braking, better software that is more efficient, making it easier to charge up...but the raw tech with batteries and motors kind of is what it is unless there is a big breakthrough. Lots of breakthroughs in the theoretical space - but nothing that is going to change the game as of yet nor is practical.

I'm not convinced personally - nothing against them, but unless there is a major breakthrough that is practical and scalable and an infrastructure to support it. What if it requires new charging stations, how many billions is that going to take? What if requires mining something from Russia that we may not have access too reasonably? Even IF the tech comes out...all the hoops to jump through could be a deal breaker.....

Maybe I am just a half-empty guy?

 

[NevadaLover]

The anti-EV commenters here, in an EV forum, won’t be swayed by anything I say.

You refuse to accept the fact that for a lot of us here, EV's are just not practical enough for our everyday vehicle, just because we see this fact and accept that for now we are not going to go buy one, doesn't make us haters!

 

[Todd780]

met a guy who was int he EV/Battery development space, this was 2-3 years ago now, he said all major improvements have been made and a lot of the tech that is being used now is lipstick....

His statement reminds me of this quote:

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

If ever? I mean there are a lot of technologies out there but how many will actually come to fruition? It's easy to look at tech and assume it scales like Moores law....but we've reached a point with batteries that we may not get much better, at least in near future. We hear all the time that it's "just a matter of time"....is it really? We don't know what we don't know.

I met a guy who was int he EV/Battery development space, this was 2-3 years ago now, he said all major improvements have been made and a lot of the tech that is being used now is lipstick....aerodynamics, more fuel efficient tires, regenerative braking, better software that is more efficient, making it easier to charge up...but the raw tech with batteries and motors kind of is what it is unless there is a big breakthrough. Lots of breakthroughs in the theoretical space - but nothing that is going to change the game as of yet nor is practical.

I'm not convinced personally - nothing against them, but unless there is a major breakthrough that is practical and scalable and an infrastructure to support it. What if it requires new charging stations, how many billions is that going to take? What if requires mining something from Russia that we may not have access too reasonably? Even IF the tech comes out...all the hoops to jump through could be a deal breaker.....

Maybe I am just a half-empty guy?

Doubt is a powerful weapon.

Fortunately for us, previous generation didn’t suffer from such lack of imagination. I’m an X that “believes” little of anything, but was mostly raised by depression era Grandparents that would be an absolute ray of sunshine compared to today’s Americans.

 

[NevadaLover]

If ever? I mean there are a lot of technologies out there but how many will actually come to fruition? It's easy to look at tech and assume it scales like Moores law....but we've reached a point with batteries that we may not get much better, at least in near future. We hear all the time that it's "just a matter of time"....is it really? We don't know what we don't know.

I met a guy who was int he EV/Battery development space, this was 2-3 years ago now, he said all major improvements have been made and a lot of the tech that is being used now is lipstick....aerodynamics, more fuel efficient tires, regenerative braking, better software that is more efficient, making it easier to charge up...but the raw tech with batteries and motors kind of is what it is unless there is a big breakthrough. Lots of breakthroughs in the theoretical space - but nothing that is going to change the game as of yet nor is practical.

I'm not convinced personally - nothing against them, but unless there is a major breakthrough that is practical and scalable and an infrastructure to support it. What if it requires new charging stations, how many billions is that going to take? What if requires mining something from Russia that we may not have access too reasonably? Even IF the tech comes out...all the hoops to jump through could be a deal breaker.....

Maybe I am just a half-empty guy?

I'm not saying EV technology will never advance enough to replace my vehicles, I just think some of the doomsdayers are jumping the gun, so to speak.

And these elected morons pulling a random date of thin air as an end to all new ICE cars, trucks and SUV's, ignoring the fact that technology is nowhere near that point, should be recalled and sent to prison, EV's do work for some, as do the current crop of hybrids of all types, but to completely ban the choice that still does work for many is a crime!

 

[2025 deleted member]

I’m just trying to ad some actual citable facts to the stream of miss information in this thread. Otherwise it just reads like forwards from grandma.

I’m not trying to trigger anyone or converse with someone who came here to pick an argument. I know there are people reading this that aren’t responding.

The anti-EV commenters here, in an EV forum, won’t be swayed by anything I say.

Doubt is a powerful weapon.

Fortunately for us, previous generation didn’t suffer from such lack of imagination. I’m an X that “believes” little of anything, but was mostly raised by depression era Grandparents that would be an absolute ray of sunshine compared to today’s Americans.

Is that an EV in your avatar?

 

[life_w_vagabonds]

Is that an EV in your avatar?

OMG the hypocrisy! Are you scouring my previous posts as well?

It’s a Ranger and also the last thing I own that burns something. My daily driver and my 80 year old house are all electric, even my lawn mower and BBQ grill are electric. I’ve been daily driving an EV for over 10 years now, most of that time I was living in Phoenix.

There are no midsize EV pickup options. I’m of the opinion a full-size is too wide for the places we like to go.

Anything else you’d like to know? I enjoy long walks, whiskey and wild trout too.

 

[2025 deleted member]

OMG the hypocrisy! Are you scouring my previous posts as well?

It’s a Ranger and also the last thing I own that burns something. My daily driver and my 80 year old house are all electric, even my lawn mower and BBQ grill are electric. I’ve been daily driving an EV for over 10 years now, most of that time I was living in Phoenix.

There are no midsize EV pickup options. I’m of the opinion a full-size is too wide for the places we like to go.

Anything else you’d like to know? I enjoy long walks, whiskey and wild trout too.

It’s literally a picture of a gas burning truck on every post you make. But I’m glad you just said what you did- an EV truck isn’t right for you- and that’s the entire point other are trying to make when you speak over their heads with the holier than thou attitude.
Is that house solar or does it burn coal and natural gas at the power plant?