split axle from f250 1980-1997 front quigley used.

[IdaSHO]

The only problems with aligning a TTB front suspension is that most kids these days don't know how to use a damn tape measure.

That isnt the problem at all.

The PROBLEM with the TTB is that the alignment CHANGES as the suspension cycles.
It has everything to do with the pivoting beams and tie rod linkage.

So you are rarely actually running with a correct alignment.


A the suspension compresses, you get toe out, and negative camber.

As the suspension droops, you get toe in and positive camber.


So as a vehicle goes from cub weight to loaded, you alter the alignment, because (obviously) the suspension compresses as you add weight.


So when do you do the alignment?

Loaded or empty? Because it matters.


or do yourself a favor and FIX the problem by going solid axle.



This is the #1 reason a solid axle is superior. As the suspension cycles, alignment doesnt change.
Everything else between the TTB D50 and the solid axle D60 are so close that they do not matter.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

TTB has a great ride on road and off, excellent wheel travel at any ride height, great OE parts availability, great aftermarket support...

It does have more wearable parts (bushings) and it requires a trained alignment technician or knowledgeable owner.

It's also going to be more susceptible to damage from giant tires and lockers. The popular Dana 60 solid axle comes from 1 ton trucks (F350, etc) while the Dana 50 TTB comes from 3/4 ton trucks (F250, etc) so there's obviously a strength difference. That being said, TTBs are common with turbo diesels, 460s, and snow plows, etc without problems.

Our TTB design has the same number of bushings (4) as a leaf sprung 4x4. Actually we only have two as we use a spherical bearing at the beam pivots. It does have one more U-Joint.
Dana 50 TTB's were also offered in F350's in certain markets and years. The one in my personal SMB came out of a '83 F350, I have the factory owner's manuals.
No straight axle 4x4 van can keep up with our vans, under any situation. Ready for a shootout...

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

To anybody who does try to install a TTB, know this. They came with two different hub sizes. One size for factory manual hubs and one for factory auto-locking hubs. However, due to the weak design of the auto hubs, many were converted to manual using factory style manual hubs and a conversion kit. So if you pick up a TTB from the junkyard, and it has manual hubs, you need to get the numbers off the bearings before you replace them so you can get the correct bearings and seals for a rebuild.

Bronco's and F150's used a Dana 44 TTB and had 5 lugs on a 5.5" circle. They used the same smaller lock hub size as straight axle Dana 44's, both manual and automatic.

F250's were offered with Dana 44HD TTB's and Dana 50 TTB's, both had 8 lugs on a 6.5" circle. The Dana 44HD used the same lock hubs as the standard Dana 44, both manual and automatic.

F350's were offered with 50 TTB's, and had 8 lugs on a 6.5" circle. Dana 50 TTB's have the same spindle, bearings, u-joints and lock hubs as the Dana 60, both manual and automatic.

 

[Randall Dee]

Ready for a shootout...

Get em Ramsey.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Shootout indeed. Solid axle boys better hope for smooth straight roads lol

I'd forgotten about the one ton TTB. Didn't the F350 use leaf springs instead of coils? Seems like they were just 2 or maybe 3 leaves thick...

If toe is changing something is the wrong length. Could just be the tie rod ends being adjusted instead of the drag link or something altogether wrong but the whole point of the inverted Y linkage is to follow the spindles camber curve. Yes, camber changes as suspension cycles. Contact patch seems improved that way if watch TTB trophy trucks or their TTB prerunners run Baja you'll get it

Agile, not to be picky but I meant the TTB wears bushings more since their deflection is the suspension's flexibility. Radius arm bushings obviously. That being said, leaf springs typically use 6 bushings, not 4. One at the spring's fixed end + two in the shackle = 3 per side, so 6 total. Two more for a track bar most tall (6" lift anyone?) street-driven leaf sprung front ends need to maintain alignment, so TTB in reality uses half as many: 4 vs 8. You can add another 6 for a sway bar if you want, same as TTB since sway bars connect similarly.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Shootout indeed. Solid axle boys better hope for smooth straight roads lol

I'd forgotten about the one ton TTB. Didn't the F350 use leaf springs instead of coils? Seems like they were just 2 or maybe 3 leaves thick... Exactly

If toe is changing something is the wrong length. Could just be the tie rod ends being adjusted instead of the drag link or something altogether wrong but the whole point of the inverted Y linkage is to follow the spindles camber curve. Yes, camber changes as suspension cycles. Contact patch seems improved that way if watch TTB trophy trucks or their TTB prerunners run Baja you'll get it. TTB's can have some Bump Steer, especially if lifted and not done correctly. We have minimized the bump steer in our setup. Even straight axles have bump steer, especially when a track bar is incorporated. Of course if the suspension has very little movement in the first place... you won't have much bump steer would you.

Agile, not to be picky but I meant the TTB wears bushings more since their deflection is the suspension's flexibility. Radius arm bushings obviously. That being said, leaf springs typically use 6 bushings, not 4. One at the spring's fixed end + two in the shackle = 3 per side, so 6 total. Two more for a track bar most tall (6" lift anyone?) street-driven leaf sprung front ends need to maintain alignment, so TTB in reality uses half as many: 4 vs 8. You can add another 6 for a sway bar if you want, same as TTB since sway bars connect similarly. You got me on that!

TTB's are not for everyone and neither are straight axles - but don't discount the advantages of the TTB in a van.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

Get em Ramsey.

What is that I see at the bottom of your posts?

"2006 Ford E250 5.4 w/Agile Off Road TTB50 4x4"

 

[ujoint]

No straight axle 4x4 van can keep up with our vans, under any situation. Ready for a shootout...

Bold statement. Sounds like fun I've been trying to get the magazine guys to do this for years.

I think a shootout would end in a tie. Each suspension design has its strong points and weaknesses, fun either way though.

 

[simple]

Our TTB design has the same number of bushings (4) as a leaf sprung 4x4. Actually we only have two as we use a spherical bearing at the beam pivots. It does have one more U-Joint.
Dana 50 TTB's were also offered in F350's in certain markets and years. The one in my personal SMB came out of a '83 F350, I have the factory owner's manuals.
No straight axle 4x4 van can keep up with our vans, under any situation. Ready for a shootout...

He he, maybe your meant straight axle van.

 

[BajaSportsmobile]

He he, maybe your meant straight axle van.

Of course! Touche.

 

[Randall Dee]

What is that I see at the bottom of your posts?

"2006 Ford E250 5.4 w/Agile Off Road TTB50 4x4"

Did I spell something wrong? I think you missed my 73 beemer.

 

[simple]

Bold statement. Sounds like fun I've been trying to get the magazine guys to do this for years.

I think a shootout would end in a tie. Each suspension design has its strong points and weaknesses, fun either way though.

That would be cool and a great educational piece for the 4x4 van consumer. Get Quiqley IFS in there too.

 

[IdaSHO]

Shootout indeed. Solid axle boys better hope for smooth straight roads lol

I'd forgotten about the one ton TTB. Didn't the F350 use leaf springs instead of coils? Seems like they were just 2 or maybe 3 leaves thick...

If toe is changing something is the wrong length. Could just be the tie rod ends being adjusted instead of the drag link or something altogether wrong but the whole point of the inverted Y linkage is to follow the spindles camber curve. Yes, camber changes as suspension cycles. Contact patch seems improved that way if watch TTB trophy trucks or their TTB prerunners run Baja you'll get it

Agile, not to be picky but I meant the TTB wears bushings more since their deflection is the suspension's flexibility. Radius arm bushings obviously. That being said, leaf springs typically use 6 bushings, not 4. One at the spring's fixed end + two in the shackle = 3 per side, so 6 total. Two more for a track bar most tall (6" lift anyone?) street-driven leaf sprung front ends need to maintain alignment, so TTB in reality uses half as many: 4 vs 8. You can add another 6 for a sway bar if you want, same as TTB since sway bars connect similarly.

Newsflash::

TTB F250 and 350 are LEAF sprung. Figure that into your bushing count.

TTB F150s are coil


Also, I do not believe the two are interchangeable. I think the beams are different lengths, and have different pivot points.

 

[Mwilliamshs]

Idasho I don't think a newsflash applies to suspensions last factory-issued 22 years ago but just IMO. I'm sure everything there is to be known about how and where Ford used the TTB system is known by someone, it's just not me. Are you suggesting it's you?

Yeah leaves vs coils will change bushing count but only if the VANS equipped with TTB (wait, Ford never...yeah you knew that already) are also leaf sprung and I've never put my nose under one to know first hand. Have you?

Oh and I think you meant TTB F150s, Broncos, Rangers, Bronco IIs, Explorers, and as far as I know all TIBs, from which the TTB was derived, were coil sprung, right?

 

[Heloflyboy]

The cross members on the vans are completely different from the trucks so not an easy or direct swap on the TTB. Salem Kroger also did TTB conversions on vans. I had an E150 with TTB and loved the way it rode on and off road. I did not have alignment issues. I now have an E350 diesel and am debating on solid axle or TTB, going more toward TTB though since I run more desert type trails.