Still New To Me Gen 3 Won't Start

[coffeegoat]

A good trick to get your car towed cheaper is to just get an AAA membership. I think it's cheaper the first year, but for my wife and I it's like $135/year with 100 mile towing. I think you only get like 3 tows per year per car, or something limited like that but it is so much cheaper than any alternative. For less than a mile it might be worth just finding a friend to tow you.

The best part about this trick is that you can get it towed 100 miles to "a shop" and have them give you an estimate and then get it towed another 100 miles (rinse and repeat). I was able to get my truck towed from the middle of Nebraska to Denver this way....

 

[2to4wheels]

OK...Today's Update

Before I had it towed to a shop, I'd figured I'd disconnect the battery for the night and try again to see if it was an ECU thing or something else. So I did that, came back out this morning and re-connected it. Started right up with a bit of hesitation and then smoothed out...but, and a big but, is there was a tick that I don't remember hearing before and a lot of smoke coming out of the exhaust, mostly white smoke. Thoughts?

I guess I'm tearing it down to check the timing. Why would it start now and not before if the timing was off? It was idling fine though for obvious reasons, I didn't let it idle long. But the new noise bothers and concerns me quite a bit.

UPDATE: Sorry for the real time updates! I was curious and checked the engine level and it was a tad low so topped it off and fired it up again (you all think I'm crazy I bet but I wanted to grab a quick video). Started right up, big puffy smoke cleared (maybe it was just burning all the fuel I dumped trying to start before), and tick wasn't as loud as the first time but definitely still there (SEE VIDEO IN LINK). The other thing I saw that I don't remember from before was just at idle, it was burning oil, not a ton, but I don't remember any smoke out the exhaust previously.

So here's what I know now. Resetting the ECU seemed to have done something, it's getting spark, air, and fuel. But now there is a tick and some oil burn that didn't exist.

Here's the link to here the tick.

https://goo.gl/photos/hdYCAxnzGTSVpyeY8

 

[coffeegoat]

Can't help you with the smoke but for the tick one thing I discovered when I did my full rebuild is that for whatever reason just idling the truck didn't really fill the lifters with oil. So when I started it and let it idle until it was warm after my rebuild it had a little tick. Which after completely cleaning/replacing the lifters was super annoying. I just left it along and started driving (gently) and over the next couple days it went away. I think one of my lifters is probably just not sealing perfectly so it had deflated slightly.

Your tick sounds louder than mine did, but it does sound like it's in the valve/cam train. If you rev it (gently) up to 3000rpm - hold it for 10 seconds - and then release does it change at all or is it pretty constant.

 

[normal_dave]

So, let's "back the truck up" for a moment...

In your original post, you had a no start, and excessive fuel smell, "like it was all I could smell".

Now with a re-set computer you have a start/run, great news but now with other issues you didn't have before. So at this point, we've bounced around here and there but we still don't have confirmation of what caused the original no start condition.

White smoke typically relates to moisture, and often can be a sign of coolant entering the combustion chamber, (blown head gasket) although it doesn't seem likely in this case, especially since it went away. Now you say it's burning oil. Is there still smoke (much more blue than white) coming out of the exhaust after it has idled for a time? Remember our trucks will mist in the exhaust a fair amount until warmed up after sitting a couple of days anyway.

The tick in the video is quite noticeable. Question, you said you "checked the engine level" was this the oil? How low was it? If so, did it happen to smell a lot like gasoline? Was it thinner than it should have been? Pure speculation, but suppose somehow you dumped a lot of fuel into the engine with the no start problem, and it washed into the crankcase, gas in the oil would thin it out, and cause a lifter issue, along with other wear problems. Take another look at the dipstick, use your sense of smell, same for the oil fill cap underside. If you smell a lot of gas, lets get the oil and filter changed pronto.

Check the coolant condition and level while you are at it, make sure it is in good condition, and it hasn't mysteriously disappeared recently. BTW, the underside of the oil fill cap should only have oil deposits on it, if you see a milky white paste for example, then we have a whole new basket of fun to look into.

Side note, our trucks have locking gas doors, but could be defeated, might take a close look around the gas fill area for contaminants? (I know conspiracy theory, but we re in an election year, HA!) Any chance some diesel got mixed in somehow? I know not likely but we have to wonder.

Still no check engine light? With all that said, others have noted a slight off adjustment in the timing belt could cause the tick, you've already experienced that once, is the noise the same as it was then or different? I'm still not convinced of the timing belt giving trouble based on the quality of parts used, and your documentation of the repair, as well as a second set of experienced eyes you had on the project. It would be nice to nail down the cause of this no start first without throwing parts at it.

You'll get it worked out, and earn your diploma from the school of hard knocks.

 

[evomaki]

Yeah, what normal_dave says. These sorts of conditions are so frustrating. Your mind races. We have all been there. That ticking does sound loud, but it is hard to say. Maybe the phone amplified it? Try the old screwdriver stethoscope on the oil pan near the crank snout, and try on the valve covers. Louder in any particular area?

 

[2to4wheels]

What would your day be without having an update!

So, out of curiosity and reading your recommendations, I gave it a go today. Started right up, still running smooth (timing seems fine) and was noticeably quieter. Let it run for a while and gave it some RPM. It was running better than yesterday so I got courageous and took it on a quick 3 miles drive with a stop mid-way where I pulled over, got out and did a walk around. Sounded and was running just like it was before this mayhem started a week ago. Went home let it idle a bit, took another video and walk around. Running like it did, no tick, no exhaust burn.

So am I feeling better...yes and no. To know that mechanically, the timing and everything else seems somehow back to "normal". But is still begs the question of why did it do this in the first place. All things point to electrical since disconnecting the batter for a day seemed to get it started again. And assuming like some of you guys thought, maybe getting some oil back into the engine smoothed it out over time.

So for comparison purposes. 3 videos.

Yesterday...much louder tick:
https://goo.gl/photos/S1eUUnJewrGHKzkG9

Upon Start-up today...quieter tick:
https://goo.gl/photos/PHGdfG5YkHpkFisw6

After running for 15 mins and a short:
https://goo.gl/photos/kuarjRvdMhPJjjxf8

 

[DeltaFry]

Hello 2(2)4, this might sound weird but I have the same colored 3.8 and had ticking problems.. It might not be related but may help..

Here is my experience - http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/159055-3rd-Gen-Montero-Questions/page6

What would your day be without having an update!

So, out of curiosity and reading your recommendations, I gave it a go today. Started right up, still running smooth (timing seems fine) and was noticeably quieter. Let it run for a while and gave it some RPM. It was running better than yesterday so I got courageous and took it on a quick 3 miles drive with a stop mid-way where I pulled over, got out and did a walk around. Sounded and was running just like it was before this mayhem started a week ago. Went home let it idle a bit, took another video and walk around. Running like it did, no tick, no exhaust burn.

So am I feeling better...yes and no. To know that mechanically, the timing and everything else seems somehow back to "normal". But is still begs the question of why did it do this in the first place. All things point to electrical since disconnecting the batter for a day seemed to get it started again. And assuming like some of you guys thought, maybe getting some oil back into the engine smoothed it out over time.

So for comparison purposes. 3 videos.

Yesterday...much louder tick:
https://goo.gl/photos/S1eUUnJewrGHKzkG9

Upon Start-up today...quieter tick:
https://goo.gl/photos/PHGdfG5YkHpkFisw6

After running for 15 mins and a short:
https://goo.gl/photos/kuarjRvdMhPJjjxf8

 

[2to4wheels]

Hello 2(2)4, this might sound weird but I have the same colored 3.8 and had ticking problems.. It might not be related but may help..

Here is my experience - http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/159055-3rd-Gen-Montero-Questions/page6

Thanks...as of an hour ago, all symptoms continue to be gone as it starts right up, sounds great, and no smoke.

 

[DeltaFry]

Good to know. Have fun driving your Monty.

 

[2to4wheels]

Probably my last update since I don't know what else to do at this point other than move on with life and see if anything else happens (not really where I want to be)! But she started up and ran smoother than I remember to be honest. Scarey place to be have know idea what happened and why.

 

[nckwltn]

Probably my last update since I don't know what else to do at this point other than move on with life and see if anything else happens (not really where I want to be)! But she started up and ran smoother than I remember to be honest. Scarey place to be have know idea what happened and why.

Same thing happened to my 03. Wouldn't start one morning for my wife, started just fine for me later that day. 2 weeks later, stranded in the Home Depot parking lot. AAA guy hit the underside of the fuel tank with a rubber mallet while I turned it over. Started right up. Replaced the fuel pump (reused the fuel pump housing) and haven't had a problem since; was 11 months ago.

 

[2to4wheels]

So my dad came to visit today and I ran the whole scenario by him. For context, he is 66 and has owned/managed a very successful family-run heavy-duty truck dealership/service shop for decades...if you asked him though what he did, he would tell you he is a diesel mechanic which and he brothers began working for my grandfather when they were teens. All that to say, he's been around the block a few times and regularly advises for Cummins and Detroit Diesel so I trust him quite a bit when it comes to anything mechanical.

He had no explanation as to why this all started in the first place since he wasn't there but did not shy away from the idea that the ECM just could have had a glitch if disconnecting the battery solved the problem..."it's electronic and they do that from time to time just because." As for the engine knock when it finally did start up that eventually faded away, he didn't even think about it and immediately said it was a fuel knock. He said, "You dumped a ton of fuel into it over the few days every time you were trying to start it so where do you think it would go? I bet it smoked like crazy ("Hahah") and it needed to clear all that extra fuel so you were hearing it detonate until the ratio was back to where it needed to be."

In theory it make sense and of course he could never be sure since he wasn't here but if anyone I know that has seen it all over the past half-century, it's this guy. So, case closed?

 

[Michael Brown]

Seems like it for the most part. The ECMs are reliable, but all software builds up errors. Most are cleared out immediately, but some are just placed in a trash pile inside the temporary memory (RAM). Get enough errors in the pile, and they can cause strange behavior. Disconnecting the battery allows a full shutdown of the ECM (anti-theft module keeps running for the alarm), which clears the temporary/trash storage in the RAM.

All other behavior seems to be caused by the attempts to start. Adding fuel floods the engine, which makes it that much harder to start. Keep an eye out for CELs and any tailpipe smoke that stays after driving to your destination.

Glad to know that it has healed itself.

 

[Monstero]

After reading this I am going to make a wager that this is the ICM. (Ignition control module) this is located on the right side right beside the gas pedal. They are about a 100-140 from local auto parts store or Rockauto.com

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[2to4wheels]

After reading this I am going to make a wager that this is the ICM. (Ignition control module) this is located on the right side right beside the gas pedal. They are about a 100-140 from local auto parts store or Rockauto.com

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

Well, this may be very timely and useful since it left me sit again after I dropped my son off at school. It's been running fine for the last week and half and all of sudden, same symptoms. Went to start it and 2 seconds later, it died. Tried again, it caught for about a second, shook and down for the count. Disconnected the negative terminal, let it sit for an hour or so and went back (luckily only a few blocks from my house) and no dice.

Still throwing no codes.

So...how do I test to see if it is the ICM?