Supercamper

[dbolton]

Ryan - I've got the Deaver 9's on my tacoma, and am thinking about going to 10's or 11's to account for the slide-in camper I picked up not too long ago. I was looking at overloads, but decided against it. I agree with your thinking - the overloads are designed to account for heavier-than-normal loads over the rear axle, without having a stiffer spring back there all the time (for ride comfort when not loaded).

Regarding the rivets - I'm going way back to my introductory metallurgy class - but if the frame isn't heat treated then doesn't that mean it just has some hardening from the manufacturing process, which is lost during the heating and (presumably uncontrolled) cooling of the weld? I think that's why Jason Demello is pretty careful about his welds - trying not to overheat the entire steel section.

With the rivets, you end up with stress risers at the rivet holes.

BTW - I read the latest update; looks like you had a lot of help, but I'm right up the road near the RB pier, if you ever need another wrench.

Dan

 

[Scott Brady]

I am running an 11 leaf pack with excellent results. I would trust Scott's recommendation on the leaf set-up, as he may want to retain the overload to prevent negative arch.

I will be talking with those guys next week anyways as the Off-Road Expo show and we can talk in more detail.

 

[SuperCamperos]

Good point, Scott, on the negative arch thing. Since I'm not looking for lift, my springs would be much more susceptible to going into the negative arch zone.

On the rivet vs weld subject, you do get stress risers at rivet holes, but you also get stress risers at a weld joint, due to both the heat affected zone as well as weld geometry. One good thing about the rivets is that they would be closer to the neutral axis of the "C", whereas the weld is closer to the outer fibers, which see the most stress.

The rivets, however, could potentially loosen over time when the frame starts to corrode.

 

[viter]

check out this frame plating by CBI off-road - http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?p=674659#post674659

 

[Ramdough]

Instead of Rivets, I would use bolts. Then you can always remove the plates and repaint.

A 1/4-28 grade 5 bolt should take around 1600 lb shear.

You could get a yellow zinc dichromate???? coated bolt for not all that much. Or use fewer larger bolts.

I am not voting bolted vs weld.... just like bolts over rivets for critical stuff.

 

[viter]

bolts would not be a problem - they are strong, the holes for the bolts in the frame might. the rule of thumb is that at any hole the stress is magnified 3 times.
how much stress will be magnified at the welding spots? - I am not sure...

 

[Super Doody]

check out this frame plating by CBI off-road - http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?p=674659#post674659

Thats really good. I would rather do < type of weld at the end of the plate instead of type striaght edge.


People have been using these type of plates for a while now and some of these guys wheel their truck pretty damn hard and I have yet to hear anyone cracking their frame due to plate reinforcement.

 

[Super Doody]

Hey Scott Brady or anyone else with a heavy truck and Deavers: I'm trying to piece my rig back together and get custom leaf springs. Scott Born at Deaver said my best bet would be to get new stock springs (since they are broken) and then take it to him to add leaves as req'd. He says keeping the over load spring on is the best way to go. Anyone know why this would be better? I thought the overload spring is there mainly to compensate for large load ranges, not just large loads. We're running between 5000-5400 lb all of the time.

What was the reasoning in not having an overload on your 6000 lb rig, scott? Was you 10 leaf off-the-shelf or was there some design discussions?

Also, I think I'm going to get the demello frame reinforcement and Rivet it on to minimize stress concentrations due to welding. 3/16 structural rivets can take 1000 lbs each in shear, so it shouldn't take too many (25 each side?). has anyone done this or used bolts?

I've looked through the archives and can't find out if the tacoma frame is heat treated. I believe that the detail parts are heat treated but the assembly is not heat treated as a whole. Therefore you get normalized (weaker) areas wherever its welded, plus a stress concentration going from lower strength to higher strength, which is bad in fatigue.

Any news on the frame ?

 

[SuperCamperos]

The auto shop says that there shouldn't be too much of a problem bending the frame back even though upon further inspection, I see the frame has been so racked that the front tires are about an inch offset from each other fore-aft. After the frame adjustment and the minor body work, they are going to give me a new complete rear end (not new but a used one). This would be the axle, drive shaft, differential, etc, so we should be in pretty good shape on that. Everything is just taking a really long time. And in the meantime, on Friday, Holly totalled her car on the 405. She's ok, but things just haven't been going too smoothly.

I did, however, get a dry weight on the camper. I ordered an "obesity scale" online--goes up to 550 lbs, rather than the conventional 330 lb bathroom scale. It even talks to you in case your belly is so big that you can't see the read out. Any ways, I have the camper up on three saw horses, So I jacked up the camper at the three points individually with the scale under the jack and added the numbers together to get 1100 lbs. Pretty heavy, but subtracting the weight of the bed out, its more around 900, which makes sense with our total dry weight running at 4500 lbs. This weight includes an extra battery, fridge, solar panel, air compressor, and water pump (things you would have to add to the 700 lb dry weight of something like a Four Wheel Camper). So we're about on par weight wise with anyone with a FWC and some options.

 

[robert]

If you are going to be replacing the rear axle anyways, I might look into a Ford 9". Currie Enterprises can build one to your specs that will carry the weight better than the stock Toyota axle. Just a thought..........

 

[jrizman]

If you are going to be replacing the rear axle anyways, I might look into a Ford 9". Currie Enterprises can build one to your specs that will carry the weight better than the stock Toyota axle. Just a thought..........

The TRD axle is fine IMO, its not like he is supercharged and running low ass gears. ive beat the **** outta mine and its fine, not to mention the extra few grand for that 9", 14 bolt or any other axle...

That load isnt bad at all, just upgrade the springs and itll be good to go!

 

[Super Doody]

The auto shop says that there shouldn't be too much of a problem bending the frame back even though upon further inspection, I see the frame has been so racked that the front tires are about an inch offset from each other fore-aft. After the frame adjustment and the minor body work, they are going to give me a new complete rear end (not new but a used one). This would be the axle, drive shaft, differential, etc, so we should be in pretty good shape on that. Everything is just taking a really long time. And in the meantime, on Friday, Holly totalled her car on the 405. She's ok, but things just haven't been going too smoothly.

I did, however, get a dry weight on the camper. I ordered an "obesity scale" online--goes up to 550 lbs, rather than the conventional 330 lb bathroom scale. It even talks to you in case your belly is so big that you can't see the read out. Any ways, I have the camper up on three saw horses, So I jacked up the camper at the three points individually with the scale under the jack and added the numbers together to get 1100 lbs. Pretty heavy, but subtracting the weight of the bed out, its more around 900, which makes sense with our total dry weight running at 4500 lbs. This weight includes an extra battery, fridge, solar panel, air compressor, and water pump (things you would have to add to the 700 lb dry weight of something like a Four Wheel Camper). So we're about on par weight wise with anyone with a FWC and some options.

Thanks for the update Ryan and I'm glad Holly is okay. Are you getting a new (re-manufactured?) rear end through the dealer?

On the subject of rear axle housing...Tacodab or Dean (TTORA) destroyed two Toyota (bent spring perch) TRD rear axle wheeling hard and using a lot of skinny. A lot of had to do with his super flex OEM leaf pack. You guys will probably never drive that hard but its good that you guys up grade your rear springs.

 

[SuperCamperos]

I'm not sure where the guy is getting the rear end. Its not through the dealer as he claims that the dealer will only sell individual parts and it would have to be assembled afterwards. Does anyone know if this is correct? I should probably call the dealer myself to keep him honest.

 

[BogusBlake]

I'm not sure where the guy is getting the rear end. Its not through the dealer as he claims that the dealer will only sell individual parts and it would have to be assembled afterwards.

Might be true, but even if it is, there aren't that many parts to a Toyota rear axle and it wouldn't take long or be difficult to assemble.

I should probably call the dealer myself to keep him honest.

Uhh, yeah you should.


That's too bad about you guys' other car. I'd stay off bikes for a while now too!

 

[Dave Bennett]

I'd stay off bikes for a while now too!

Now thats just plain wrong! :roost: :sombrero: