TDI swap

[MOAK]

HPA motorsport now has swap kits available for the YJ, and will soon have a kit available for my 04 TJ.. I am excited about this swap, and am looking forward to running an oil burner. However,,,, I don't like being a guinea pig. I've read all the info put out by HPA, and of course, it all looks good on paper, As they do have an idea and a product to sell.. I'm looking for " real world " info, or personal experience with this swap.. if anyone has anything,, "Engage"!!

 

[wardrow]

Have you considered a Cummins 4BT swap?

 

[Beowulf]

I don't think it has been out long enough for there to be many people running this. Especially since they did their first kit for a YJ instead of a TJ. Once their TJ kit is out there I expect you will start to see posts and reviews of the kit.

 

[Christian P.]

I have yet to see one engine conversion that ever matches the end user expectations - regardless of the vehicle.

The only exception is perhaps a swap of a similar OEM engine, such as a diesel Toyota engine to replace a gas powered Land Cruiser. But even so, the maths (cost vs benefit) usually don't work.

 

[MOAK]

Yes

Yes I have studied up on the cummins.. The mods would turn my modest Rubi into a "monster jeep" & the amount of money spent for the 4bt swap, and minimal gains in MPG, the math just doesn't work. The TDI, on the other hand, would pay for itself after 11 trips out west, or 3 trips to Alaska, based upon $4 a gallon for fuel.. Financially viable? Absolutely, when compared to the up front money for a Defender 90 or 110 tdi.. 8 to 12k to dieselize my beloved TJ, or 35k plus for a 90 or 110. So yes, for me it makes good sense to modify what I have, rather than a complete, and very expensive, platform change.. Am I crazy? That's open for debate...

 

[MOAK]

Change my mind

Have you considered a Cummins 4BT swap?

There is a company near me that specializes in the cummins swap. ( Jeff Daniels ). Are you running one?

 

[wardrow]

Not yet, but soon enough. I am still trying to find the right step van at the right price.

I have a jetta tdi and I am well aware of the potential of a 1.9 pd motor. However given the fact that it has a belt driven cam, and electronics, vs a 4bt takes ONE wire to start the engine. I decided that it would only compound the potential for disaster with an after-market engine swap in the outdoors, should problems arise. (BEAR IN MIND THIS ONLY MY SPECULATION) The 1.9 will no doubt push a little yj up a hill at 90 mph and get 25 mpg or better doing it. Where I calculate the problem is that an expo jeep is loaded down, trust me on this. Now take that same YJ, add a RTT, Fridge, armor, winch ect you get the point. Now you need to dump a few more grand in the 1.9 for a bigger turbo, larger injectors, exhaust, air to air inter-cooler, as to compensate for your loss in power on the little 1.9 You will have to have this little engine screaming most of all of its life, (tuned up 1.9's are not know for there reliability) breakage is bound to occur sooner or later and it will probably result in a TOTAL engine re-build since the 1.9 is a belt driven interference engine. http://everything2.com/title/interference+engine While the cummins 4bt would be considered an interference engine as well, it has a gear driven valve train. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummins_B_Series_engine The 4bt, while being heaver than a 1.9, will barely have to work in order to move a heavy vehicle since it's base displacement is twice that of a 1.9 One thing to remember.....There's no replacement, for displacement! Hence, the power to weight ratio of a 4bt in a jeep would allow the engine to barely have to work, thus making mass improvement in fuel economy. It would not surprise me if when I get my swap done, http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php that I see 30 mpg most of all the time.

 

[K2ZJ]

There is a company near me that specializes in the cummins swap. ( Jeff Daniels ). Are you running one?

Cummins engines are made out of gold, didn't you know that? To do this swap the upfront costs are usually higher. Now you can find a gem but most people know they are desired and price accordingly.

 

[reece146]

Cummins swaps are worth gold to dentists as well. The Cummins will shake out your fillings. <Ka-ching />

I'm not convinced that a VW TDI is enough engine to propel a fully laden Jeep at highway speeds for hours on end. Maybe a modified engine... but then the engine sees more stress and you have to be "expert" on what has been done to the engine.

 

[jeffy]

HPA motorsport now has swap kits available for the YJ, and will soon have a kit available for my 04 TJ.. I am excited about this swap, and am looking forward to running an oil burner. However,,,, I don't like being a guinea pig. I've read all the info put out by HPA, and of course, it all looks good on paper, As they do have an idea and a product to sell.. I'm looking for " real world " info, or personal experience with this swap.. if anyone has anything,, "Engage"!!

From your sig, you have a 4.0L so you're going to have to wait. When they do a TJ conversion, it too will be based off of the 2.5L first. When I talked to them, they denied that they went with the AX-5 because it's association with the Toyota G52, G54, W56 & G58. Although the Toyota camp has been doing the swap for a while so it would have made sense to go that route. Their timeline looks a bit optimistic though. They haven't really said anything on any other conversion and the hype seems to have died down after SEMA.

Without the flash, the 1.9L TDI puts out 100HP and 177ft-lbs which would be marginally better then the stock 2.5L at 120-123HP and 143lbs-ft. With the reflash the mediocre specs jump to 165 HP and 265 ft-lbs.

Even though HPA is new to the Jeep community they have been a VW Speed shop for a while, so they aren't new in that respect.

The real hurdle I see is the cost. For $2599 you get the hardware for the conversion. Then for $1100 you get the reflash ECU as well as other speed parts, which I think is mandatory. Then you have to find a low mileage 1.9L. These are a bit rare and those that have them usually know what they have and are sought after by the alternative fuel crowd.

With that said, I'd love to have the $16,000 for the turn-key. A 4BT is nice but it weights around 745lbs. The 1.9L weighs 55lbs less then the 2.5L which would make it 285lbs or 460lbs less then the 4BT.

 

[Portuga]

with all the weight of the jeep + gear, plus the abuse that our motors take while wheeling, that motor will take a dump on you in no time.

My dad back in Portugal had a eurovan/transporter that he used for work, always loaded with a fair amount of tools, with the 1.9, bought it brand new, and in a matter of 2 years that motor was smoking and burning oil like you wouldnt believe.

He traded it for another one with a 2.4, which was the step above the 1.9, and ended up going through 3 engines in the course of 5-6 years.

I'd much rather spend the extra $$ on a reliable, trouble free 4bt than a vw diesel engine.

 

[3Deserts]

FWIW as a voucher for HPA as a reputable company, I installed a number of their suspension products and an AWD controller/ECU which they co-developed with Haldex, the OEM supplier to VW/Audi, on my former Mk IV R32, and they were an outstanding company to deal with. Excellent, thorough customer support, even to the extent of hosting and supporting certain free track day events where they monitored the real world performance of their products.

Expensive stuff though, I won't argue that.

Then again, me, coming from the world of (mostly air-cooled) Porsches, there isn't much in these forums that scares me too much cost-wise! Not after having spent hours on track one missed shift away from a solid $15,000 rebuild anyway.:Wow1:

I don't miss that world. Give me a nice, clean early 911 in firm street trim at this point, and I'm done. The rest goes off road!

 

[Shocker]

That seems pretty pricey to me. And I have to agree that the 1.9 would be a little light for a YJ.

They do have a lot of success in the Samurai though and that says a lot about the power available.

You can convert the 1.9 to fully mechanical injection and only have the one wire running.

 

[wardrow]

I guess I'm lucky then!

I've re-motored both my Jeep Scrambler (Mayahual) with a MBZ OM602 DE2.9LA and Casa Azul with a Cummins 6BTAA and they both turned out better than I wildest dreams!:smiley_drive::wings:

That is great hear! I hope to join you soon! :bike_rider:

 

[MOAK]

tdi 4bt

Wow,, the more info I get about the 4bt the more I like the idea better than the TDI swap,,,, true that little TDI would be doing a lot of screaming, and I have read more than one source about their tendancy to blow up into tiny little pieces. I drive an 18 wheeler, and yes the bigger the motor, the less work it has to do, and will easily last 3/4 million miles. Displacement is everything!! What bothers me the most is the weight of the 4bt, and how to prevent nose diving, etc.. I'm already up 2-3/4"s. Another 1-1/4" should be ok. The more I read, and ask questions, the more I am leaning toward the 4bt.
I see many of you worried about cost of these swaps, but it is a lot less expensive than a new vehicle, or a diesel import, be it Yotas, or LRs.