Tell me about Native Watercraft hybrid boats?
- Thread starter Haggis
- Start date
S
Squatchout
Guest
Haggis, That 169 is an awesome do everything boat. I've spent a lot of time in them. My tandem is a Disco 174 (stretched 169) It's my second one in over 20 years. Only complaint with any Disco is weight. You know what Mid-Atlantic rivers can do to a canoe hull in low water. The Disco's just laugh it off. My bud's Native is none the worse for wear in the same rivers.
If you are new to double blade paddles I'll show one more thing.
http://www.bendingbranches.com/straightcanoe/impression_solo.html
I also sometimes use a single blade but the 119 seems to track much better when paddled with a double as it's not the world straightest tracking boat.
The WW crowd likes short paddles and steep deep strokes. Canoes sit higher and are wider. For efficient DRY cruising in canoes(and ultimates) I prefer a longer paddle and a shallower stroke. For ME in MY boat it's dryer, more efficient, and easier on these old shoulder joints too. I have the 280cm version of the above paddle and just love it. It's been used for a push pole many times and doesn't show it at all. Carbon paddles are lighter but that wooden blade is plenty light compared to aluminum/plastic blades. It feels "oh so good" in the hands especially on cold days. It also has that wonderful furniture aesthetic that only wood has. Plenty strong and tough and the carbon sleeve is machined and not sloppy like an aluminum sleeve often gets.
I had to order mine as most shops don't stock the longer canoe doubles just shorter yak paddles. Most companies don't make a canoe length double they typically stop at 230-240cm longest. Being a sportsman you'll appreciate that the wooden paddle is quiet both in the water and banging the boat.
Here is another pic that shows the paddle. The blades are upside down of course because laying across the gunnels it rolls heavy side down.
If you are new to double blade paddles I'll show one more thing.
http://www.bendingbranches.com/straightcanoe/impression_solo.html
I also sometimes use a single blade but the 119 seems to track much better when paddled with a double as it's not the world straightest tracking boat.
The WW crowd likes short paddles and steep deep strokes. Canoes sit higher and are wider. For efficient DRY cruising in canoes(and ultimates) I prefer a longer paddle and a shallower stroke. For ME in MY boat it's dryer, more efficient, and easier on these old shoulder joints too. I have the 280cm version of the above paddle and just love it. It's been used for a push pole many times and doesn't show it at all. Carbon paddles are lighter but that wooden blade is plenty light compared to aluminum/plastic blades. It feels "oh so good" in the hands especially on cold days. It also has that wonderful furniture aesthetic that only wood has. Plenty strong and tough and the carbon sleeve is machined and not sloppy like an aluminum sleeve often gets.
I had to order mine as most shops don't stock the longer canoe doubles just shorter yak paddles. Most companies don't make a canoe length double they typically stop at 230-240cm longest. Being a sportsman you'll appreciate that the wooden paddle is quiet both in the water and banging the boat.
Here is another pic that shows the paddle. The blades are upside down of course because laying across the gunnels it rolls heavy side down.
Haggis
Appalachian Ridgerunner
:sombrero: I've been using kayak paddles for propelling the canoes for years. My wife bought me a Bending Branches paddle a couple of years ago and it is sweet. Back in '09 we did an ExPo float trip down the Rappahannock and everyone else kept wondering why Michelle and I could cruise so fast in our big, old, and fully loaded 169. I let them try out the BB paddle and it was a couple of hours while it made the rounds through the "fleet" before I got it back. It was then they realized I was able to do twice the strokes they were able to while using the traditional paddles.
All this canoe talk is making me antsy for winter to be over....:drool: Forget the Jeep I want to go paddle.
All this canoe talk is making me antsy for winter to be over....:drool: Forget the Jeep I want to go paddle.
Last edited:
S
Squatchout
Guest
x2
Rappohannoc is a nice river. I bought my 1st 174 at an auction at the Rappahannoc Outdoor Center. Used livery boat.
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
If an Ultimate fits your needs, it will be hard to find another option. Don't get me wrong, those are really cool little boats and perfect for anyone wanting to do some flat water paddling involving some fishing, birding or just doing a little "liquid lawn chair" paddling. It's just not a high mileage boat. For that, I think you'd have to get something longer and sleeker, but that will come at the sacrifice of some of that versatility the Ultimates have.
My other favorite boat in this range is the Old Town Pack. That's a solo canoe, much like that 169. Super light little boat, easy to paddle, much less expensive than the Ultimate, but again, perhaps not a high mile craft.
S
Squatchout
Guest
The Pack is just like the Disco 119 solo I have in the pics above except it's roylex instead of crosslink3 poly. Very similar design. I've paddled both. It will be faster than the Utimate but not alot. They are also general purpose boats. It takes a 14 -16' narrow solo for speed.
Haggis, I think you will find these boats move fine. You are in river country and will mostly be going downstream I suspect and modest trips on still water.
Flounder is a Sea Yak guy. He understands the difference. But when you normally paddle an 18-20' needle anything else feels slow. Comparing any sportmans boat to those is like comparing a pick up truck to a Lambo as far as performance is concerned. Same goes for my stubby solo canoe. The performance of the Ultimate is similar to most any plastic rec yak of the same legnth. Most anything that is good for distance /speed paddling will not suit the purposes you are asking of a boat.
There is a reason I have 3 different boats and of course 8 different bikes. Because I like to do different stuff!
Haggis, I think you will find these boats move fine. You are in river country and will mostly be going downstream I suspect and modest trips on still water.
Flounder is a Sea Yak guy. He understands the difference. But when you normally paddle an 18-20' needle anything else feels slow. Comparing any sportmans boat to those is like comparing a pick up truck to a Lambo as far as performance is concerned. Same goes for my stubby solo canoe. The performance of the Ultimate is similar to most any plastic rec yak of the same legnth. Most anything that is good for distance /speed paddling will not suit the purposes you are asking of a boat.
There is a reason I have 3 different boats and of course 8 different bikes. Because I like to do different stuff!
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
Guilty as charged. My last three boats were in the 19' by 21" range and designed for speed and efficiency. So, anytime I get in a recreational boat, I feel like I'm dragging a submerged trash can.
I've put in a few miles in an Ultimate 12 and it was fine, just not the experience I was after. Then again, I don't fish, bird or hunt, so it's not the boat for me. Build quality is very nice and the potential to tweak the boat to your liking is hard to beat.
Haggis
Appalachian Ridgerunner
As most of our creeks are on the smallish side a boat that long would be like driving a Mack truck on a go kart track. :sombrero: If I was a big water paddler a longer boat would be the choice as speed and long distance traversing would be the main requirements. But we don't have any big water other than Lake Erie and it is not that inviting to paddle along...boring. Most of the time I'm poking around beaver dams and mucking about creeks going with the flow. I don't like to paddle upstream and then repeat scenery on the way back out. I'm more worried about draft depth than anything else.
I appreciate all the input though. It's always good to get different view points from folks with diverging needs. Often they bring up something that yer brain didn't even consider. I've got to the end of March for the sales price ($749 out the door) so I think I'll wait a few weeks. That will let the river open up (hopefully, if winter ever gets out of here) and I can give a few boats a test paddle before shelling out the cash.
S
Squatchout
Guest
Yeah buddy, It's been crazy weather here in the Mid Atlantic this week. Warm last weekend, 6"s of snow 1st of the week, some cold, several inches of rain and warm midweek, Cold + high winds that knocked the power out for 1000s Friday and back to warm and thunder storms last night and today, warm and sunny tomorrow. Don't like the weather wait a minute!
I'm chomping at the bit myself. Picking up my kid from college in PA this weekend for spring break. I'll be driving next to the Suski and the beautiful Juniata river for a good bit of the way. I haven't floated it yet and it will be a big distraction for me! Soon very soon!
I'm chomping at the bit myself. Picking up my kid from college in PA this weekend for spring break. I'll be driving next to the Suski and the beautiful Juniata river for a good bit of the way. I haven't floated it yet and it will be a big distraction for me! Soon very soon!
12husky
Adventurer
Have you seen this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47193
It should be a great paddle and maybe a chance to try out some new boats. It sounds like there will be a few there!:drool:
S
Squatchout
Guest
Just checked it out. I'll keep it in mind and see how the schedule goes when we get a little closer. Thanks for the heads up.
Haggis
Appalachian Ridgerunner
White stuff? That's the price we pay for living in the arm pit of Lake Erie. :sombrero:
My boy Cam jumped in the boat after school and was "paddling" it across the ice in the driveway. Man that thing would scoot and we both thought it would make a great toboggan. At least until the snow leaves and the ice gets of the creeks.