Hi
Libransser,
My apologies, this thread sort of began as one thing, and became another. It began as an attempt to see if a "fully integrated" expedition-style motorhome might be mechanically possible. It has since morphed into something much more ambitious.
Quite honestly, the thoughts and postings of a number contributors have influenced my thinking tremendously. For instance,
Joe Manigna's postings of various Australian design experiments;
egn's constant and helpful feedback, and "pushing" me in the direction of serial hybrid and massive solar;
dwh's suggestion regarding AWGs;
thjakits' concerns about front windshield damage; both
dwh and
thjakits strongly encouraging me to look at school buses (for structural integrity), and skoolie conversions (for light-filled, spacious interiors); and
thjakits, for repeatedly bringing up the possibility of a "Chinese Six", tandem-axle-forward arrangement. The last suggestion by
thjakits only finally "clicked" for me when he posted about the Kamaz typhoon.
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1. The Diminishing Returns of Just Drawing, and Non-Linear, Recursive Nature of Innovative Design
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My whole thinking about the TerraLiner and its design has completely changed as a consequence. I submitted models, CAD, design drawings etc. to satisfy my graduation requirement, but I am now almost embarrassed by them. The TerraLiner that I am now imagining looks completely different than the one that I was drawing 6 months ago. It's a bit like Bran Ferren's design process with the Kiravan: his designers were wasting tons of time doing drawings, when (according to Ferren) what they really needed to confront was the basic problem of how the entire vehicle might rock-crawl as a unit. I fundamentally disagree with Ferren about this design requirement -- see post #1564 at
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...edition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page157 . But even still, watching Ferren's presentation on AOL made me realize just how critical it is to really
think through basic, fundamental issues, before jumping ahead and committing oneself to too much drawing or CAD -- see
http://on.aol.com/video/designing-a-family-friendly-extreme-expedition-vehicle-517751459.
For me personally, some of the most basic issues are sociological and operational. That's why I began this 28-page series with a "statement of fundamentals" -- seven in total. See post #1524 on page 153 for the condensed list, at
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...igid-Torsion-Free-Frame?p=1923940#post1923940 . You could read these 28 pages as my attempt to "start over again from scratch", although of course they are no such thing. I could never have written -- let alone thought -- what I am now writing and thinking, even just 6 months ago. So unfortunately, the process is not quite as "linear" as one might hope. It's more recursive and "looping" than that. If you take a look at the video documenting Ferren's design process, you'll realize that his process was not very "linear" either. Ferren went through at least one moment of "radical revision", when a gooseneck-hitch design suddenly came to seem important. Whereas I've been giving myself permission for at least 3 or 4 major recursive "loops".....:sombrero:
In a way this is how things have to be, if one wants to create a truly innovative vehicle, and not merely a vehicle that only takes a few ideas a bit further. For instance, as it gradually dawned on me that an extremely "autonomous" TerraLiner might be possible (autonomous from the point of view of water and power especially), it also occurred to me that such a TerraLiner might then be almost uniquely capable of glamping on farmer's land. Regular motorhomes typically can't glamp on unprepared farmer's land, for fear of getting stuck. But they also can't glamp on farmer's land for many consecutive months, because after just a few weeks they will need water, or more diesel fuel for power. Whereas a distinct advantage of a motorhome that is designed to be very autonomous, is that it becomes liberated from RV parks. It can "boondock" for many months, not just a few weeks. Which in turn opens up additional design possibilities.
Note that on page 153 there is a kind of "mini table of contents" of sorts, providing a guide to the last 28 pages -- again, see
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...igid-Torsion-Free-Frame?p=1923940#post1923940 .
A table of contents for the whole thread? If I have the time, I'll try to get around to it. For what it's worth, whenever I want to find something in the thread, personally I just type "
Man or Tatra Integrated + search term (e.g. "
Beppe Tenti")" into Google, and usually I can quickly find what I am looking for.
Mea culpa, yes, there are also a number of much shorter posting-series that I have yet to complete. A few times I began a line of thought, and time-constraints prevented me from completing the posting-series there and then. But I will be "filling in" remaining holes over the next few months, now that I have much more time on my hands, as promised in post #1570, at
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...igid-Torsion-Free-Frame?p=1924018#post1924018 .
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2. The Tremendous Value of a "Globally Open" Thread like This
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Remember, at the end of the day this is a discussion thread. In effect I am using it to "float" trial-baloons, and get feedback from those who've had much more real-world experience with "expedition" motorhomes than myself -- people like
egn, for instance. Bran Ferren mentions in his videos that designing a large, innovative expedition motorhome is somewhat difficult, because there are only about 20 or 30 people on earth who have much experience doing so. He consulted with the best of them, and yet he still ended up with the Kiravan, which in my opinion seems to have some major flaws. Like: how does the Kiravan fetch groceries? Does the huge Kirivan tractor, 3.35 m high and 7.62 m long, fetch groceries? On this particular point, see post #1566 at
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...igid-Torsion-Free-Frame?p=1924009#post1924009 .
A thread of this kind is in many ways preferable to consulting with "experts" directly, because it is somewhat anonymous, and people can say what they like. So the feedback will be honest and direct. For instance,
thjakits kept hammering away at me regarding the issue of easy replaceability for the front windshield. I didn't like his criticism, it irked, because I love the huge front windshield in the Bürstner "Panorama" -- see
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...Arctic-Antarctica-Tibet?p=1669493#post1669493 . But
thjakits was of course right, and his critical "pressure" encouraged me to mull over whether I could recall design precedents for multi-segmented panoramic front windshields. And of course there are tons of precedents: the hundreds if not thousands of Art Deco
"Streamline Moderne" diesel locomotives built during the 1930s. It took me 3 or 4 months to remember this, which is almost embarrassing, given how much I love Art Deco. But eventually I did remember, and I have
thjakits and his trenchant criticism to thank.
On a thread like this the potential pool of advice is also much broader, because the thread is globally accessible, in the sense that people living anywhere on the globe can participate. So Joe Manigna, who lives in Australia, was able to "float" a number of innovative Australian vehicles that have received no press outside Australia, but that have proven critical in the evolution of my design thinking. If you are looking for major milestones, Joe's posts about (a) Peter Thompson's
Mañana, and (b) a unique vehicle built by Paradise motorhomes, would be two of them. See
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...igid-Torsion-Free-Frame?p=1582876#post1582876 and
http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...igid-Torsion-Free-Frame?p=1726998#post1726998 . Most American and European overlanders have heard of Rob Grey's Wothahellizat; but how many have heard of
Mañana?
Many thanks for the suggestion regarding how solar panels might fold out, cantilever-style, like a toolbox. A terrific idea: exactly the kind of "out of the box" feedback (pun intended.....:sombrero
that made writing these 28 pages worth all the effort.
As for the Terra Wind, yes, I've come across it. Strictly speaking the TerraLiner won't be intended as an amphibious vehicle, although it will have considerable "deep fording" capability. Amphibious vehicles have been discussed in the thread, but it's not really a capability that I think the TerraLiner needs. For coastal exploration, a purpose built RIB (rigid inflatable boat) would be much more useful, because it could handle truly rough seas. Whereas the Terra Wind does not seem like it could handle much wave action, or even a stiff breeze? If I am wrong about this, please correct me!
Still, a company like the one that built the Terra Wind would certainly know how to create a motorhome capable of deep fording!
Now, back to "filling in" those 28 pages.....
All best wishes,
Biotect
