TerraLiner:12 m Globally Mobile Beach House/Class-A Crossover w 6x6 Hybrid Drivetrain

[biotect]

egn,
Yes, you are right about the need to work up two different designs - :iagree:

It doesn’t have to be either/or, does it? It can be both/and.

Indeed, given that the aesthetic and ergonomic “prejudices” of the European and North American markets are now in some ways different, from a purely marketing point of view it makes sense to develop two concepts in parallel: one that’s a Pusher, and the other that’s CBE.

So, with that in mind: on your old Concorde LinerPlus, how much volume did your engine occupy in back? Your Concorde diesel engine was located under the bed, right? Even the roughest possible guesstimate here would be better than none. The axle clearance for your Concorde was 30 cm? 40 cm? And the top of the engine volume (or the bottom of the bed platform, which is was more or less the same thing?) was how many cm above grade? 100 cm? 80 cm? This would then provide a rough approximation of the height of the volume that contained your Diesel engine. What was the brand of the engine?

Even more importantly, would you know what chassis current Concorde LinerPlus motorhomes use? I searched the Concorde website, but could not seem to find the answer.

Here my main initial concern will be the height of the engine volume. Sure, everything will ultimately depend on the size, make, and format of the engine. But at least initially, I am only looking for very rough, “ball-park” figures.

More relevant than going into detailed investigation of engines, will be looking into Class A Pusher designs, and their typical engine volumes in the rear. In American Class-A and German "Liner" motorhome design there is strong pressure to minimize the volume occupied by the engine, thereby maximizing space available for everything else. But, by the same token, there is also strong pressure at the top end of the market to provide Class-A motorhomes with the most powerful Diesel engines possible, especially in terms of torque. So if any market-segment has been trying hard to figure out how to pack the most powerful Diesel engine possible, into the smallest, flattest volume, it would be the Class-A and Liner “Pusher” niche markets.

I am still very much committed to a rear-deck design. But if it’s possible to fit a super-flat Diesel engine into the space in back between the rear axle ground clearance of a Tatra 815 or MAN SX-45, and, say, 1.6 m above grade, then maybe a “Pusher” engine placement would work after all. In pictures of the Concorde LinerPlus bedroom, the bed was not 2 m off the ground, so there seems to be a fairly “flat” Diesel engine located underneath it.

Luckily, the list of American manufacturers of Class A “Pusher” chassis is fairly short – see http://www.rv-info.net/rvchassis.html , http://www.workhorse.com , http://www.spartanmotors.com , http://www.mcicoach.com , http://www.prevostcar.com , http://www.roadmasterchassis.com , and http://www.daimler-trucksnorthamerica.com/brands/freightliner-custom-chassis.aspx . Typically American RV fabricators such as Winnebago, Fleetwood, etc. will focus only on the "camper box", setting their box on top of a chassis provided by Freightliner, Ford, etc. And no doubt in the German Liner market things are similar? But a few American RV fabricators will custom-design their own chassis, for obvious enough reasons: it gives them greater design flexibility and control. Tiffin motorhomes has its “Powerglide” chassis, Country Coach had (past tense) their “Dynamax” chassis, and Alpine Coach had (past tense) their “Peak Chassis” – see http://tiffinmotorhomes.com , http://www.rvcruzer.com/powerglide.php , http://www.rvcruzer.com/tiffin_powerglide.php , http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/chassis/powerglide.pdf , http://sherry-c-fanning.blogspot.it/2012/02/normal-0-false-false-false.html , http://www.alpinecoachassociation.com/brochures/2005Peak.pdf . And of course Newell custom-constructs its own Pusher chassis.

For my purposes, probably the most indicative will be the UFO chassis, because in this chassis Workhorse tried exceptionally hard to “flatten” the engine, and make it as low-height as possible. See my post with lots of pictures on page 12, labeled number 9, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...orsion-Free-Frame/page12?highlight=integrated; and here are a few of those same images again:




The Workhorse UFO chassis probably represents the “flattest”, most low-height arrangement for a Pusher Diesel engine possible. I’m now digging around various websites to see if I can find a really good, side-elevation schematic for a UFO chassis.

Now egn, if you might know where I could find an equivalently “short” list of German “Liner” motorhome chassis manufacturers, that would also be great – i.e. a German list similar to the very short American list at http://www.rv-info.net/rvchassis.html . I searched for about two hours using google.de, and came up with überhaupt nichts..... Again, it's not the chassis specifically that I am interested in, because that will be either a Tatra 815 or a MAN SX-45. Rather, I am only interested in how they locate, compress, and otherwise flatten the "Pusher" Diesel engine in back.

And finally, if you (or anyone else reading this) knows of other “super-flat Pusher engine placements”, and would be willing to post links here in this thread – especially to photographs or elevations – that would be also be terrific!

All best wishes,


Biotect

 

[biotect]

Hi Joe,

Simply terrific posts, filled with lots of relevant information, links, and questions. Your two posts generated so many ideas for me, that I don't know where to begin. They sparked off a cascade of thoughts, which I'm still furiously trying to capture in prose and imagery. Will post a (rather long) response in a day or two, but again, thanks so much for your posts. They were eye-openers!!

All best wishes,


Biotect

 

[biotect]

Hi mog,

Those are some really wild CWOE designs!! I wonder if anything similar but "off-road" exists? Maybe not civilian off-road, but rather, military off-road?

All best wishes,


Biotect

 

[biotect]

egn,

Thanks again for your thorough response to my long set of questions, on page 17, at http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...pedition-RV-w-Rigid-Torsion-Free-Frame/page17.

Here are some additional questions, appended to passages quoted from you.


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A. THE SIZE OF MAJOR TANKS

What I can give you [regarding tank sizes] are some examples regarding our camper:

1. Freshwater

2x raw water tanks a 250 l
1x drinking water tank 150 l (filtered with 0.5 micro m, UV disinfection)

The water from outside goes into one of the water tanks, either from a pressurized source or is pumped with a build-in pump. It is only filtered regarding sand and other larger particles. The filling goes very fast as this need no large pressure and the fill rate is only dependent on the source.

The drinking water tank is then filled with a regular pump through the drinking water filter, with about 10-15 l/min. The drinking water filter can filter particles as small as 0.25 micro m (depending of type of filter element) and is a combination of micro filter and active coal. It filters particles, biological items and a wide range of organic and an-organic chemicals.

To keep the water biological inactive in the drinking water tank, there is a UV disinfection lamp installed, which is only used occasionally for a few ours if there is not much water use.

All water inside the vehicle is taken from this drinking water tank. For two adults the total of about 650 l water is good for about 14 days, including showers every two days. But normally we take bottled water as pure drinking water, then it is good for about 3 weeks. If there is a chance to take showers somewhere else the water will last much longer.

So if we take the 14 days to about 60 days, we would need about 2.500 l fresh water tank. That is far away from practical, at least not for a permanent installation. If you want to achieve that, you have to look into saving water as much as possible and probably use it mainly for drinking, without showers and use for the toilet. With 5 l/person/day then 600 l would be enough for 60 days. But this all will not be comfortable anymore and not a concept that sells in the luxury market.

2./3. Greywater (200 l) and blackwater (200 l)

The size was dictated mainly by the available volume. We have put both greywater and blackwater tanks below the floor of shower and toilet. The sum is smaller than the total size of the freshwater, because it is not to hard to get rid of both content. In western countries you often have infrastructure available and a discharge every 1-2 weeks seems to be no problem. In all not so densely populated countries, you can discharge both without much effect to the environment.

For same reason mentioned for freshwater, for me it would make no sense to put 4 times larger tanks into a vehicle.

Thanks for this realistic appraisal based on your personal experience.

Just one question: what is the brand of the water filtering system that you use? You wrote that your filtering system is “a combination of micro filter and active coal. It filters particles, biological items and a wide range of organic and an-organic chemicals.” So it sounds comprehensive and powerful. Would you be wiling to pass along the name of the manufacturer?


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B. TOILET

We are very happy with the Sealand vacuum flush toilet. It works flawless, it can be used like a normal toilet and it has the advantage that only about 0.5 l water is normally used per flush. This reduces fresh water use considerably.

What particular model of Sealand vaccum flush toilet do you have?

Sealand's product range is simply vast, and even if one narrows things down to just “VacuFlush”, there's still a large range. It would interesting to know which model you specifically chose, and why: http://www.dometicsanitation.com/International/ , http://www.dometicsanitation.com/International/PG-6985-VacuFlush-Toilet-Systems , and http://www.dometicsanitation.com/International/PG-6985-VacuFlush-Toilet-Systems . And of course the toilet bowl is just one element in a larger system that includes a holding tank, vacuum pump, vacuum tank, etc: http://www.dometicsanitation.com/In...acuFlush-Toilet-Systems/PG-6989-Holding-Tanks , http://www.dometicsanitation.com/International/PG-6985-VacuFlush-Toilet-Systems/PG-6988-Vacuum-Pumps , and http://www.dometicsanitation.com/International/PG-6985-VacuFlush-Toilet-Systems/PG-7441-Vacuum-Tanks .


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There's also one other kind of RV toilet that I forgot to mention: the incinerating toilet -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incinerating_toilet, http://inspectapedia.com/septic/Incinerating_Toilets.htm , http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-tech/sustainable/waterless-toilet2.htm , http://www.barnstablecountyhealth.o...septic-system-technology/incinerating-toilets , and http://www.stufftoblowyourmind.com/blog/poop-into-the-fire-with-incinerating-toilets/ .

For some manufacturers, see Storburn (http://www.storburn.ca/index.html http://www.storburn.ca/storburn.html ), Incinolet (http://www.incinolet.com , http://ssl3.adhost.com/incinolet/, http://ssl3.adhost.com/incinolet/merchant.cfm?step=4&pid=55 , EcoJohn ( http://www.ecojohn.com , http://www.ecojohn.com/ecojohn_sr.html , http://www.ecojohn.com/download.html , http://www.ecojohn.com/catalog/ECOJOHN-catalog.pdf ), Cinderella (http://www.siriuseco.no/en-us/frontpage.aspx , http://www.siriuseco.no/en-us/cinderellatoilet.aspx , http://www.siriuseco.no/en-us/functions.aspx ), and Separett (http://www.separett.com , http://www.separett.eu , http://www.separett.eu/flame-8000-eu , http://www.separett.eu/Common/Files/10033_BROSCHYR_SEPARETT_ENG_WEBB.pdf , http://www.separett.eu/Common/Files/11062-03 8000 BRUKSANVISNING.pdf , http://www.separett.eu/Common/Files/11173-02 SNABBGUIDE FLAME 8000_SE_UK_FI.pdf , http://www.eco-toilets.co.uk/shop/flame-toilet/ , http://www.eco-toilets.co.uk/incinerating-toilets/ ).

If memory serves, the Maxi Mog was fitted with an incinerating toilet. So what do you think? Did you consider this type of toilet? Any additional serious drawbacks, aside from the exceptional smell?

The following videos are not for the squeamish, and a few of them are just plain weird. You've been warned…..:sombrero:




[video=youtube;lzkhwVOP8O4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzkhwVOP8O4 [/video]


Should also mention that the MullToa composting toilet from Sweden seems to resolve many of the issues that bedevil other designs, including the problem of smell that put off your wife – see http://www.mulltoa.se/mulltoa_html/en/index_en.html , http://www.mulltoa.se/mulltoa_html/en/htm/mulltoa65.htm, http://www.mulltoa.se/pdf/international_brochure.pdf , http://www.treehugger.com/culture/the-hot-poop-on-alternative-toilets.html , http://www.ecoethic.ca/products_wl.html#toi_m60 , http://www.biolet.com/store/, and http://www.biolet.com/store/biolet-65-c-2/biolet-65-waterless-toilet-p-2 .

But of course, they do seem a bit expensive......?.....:yikes:


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C. SHOWERS & FAUCETS

You wrote about reuse of shower water for toilet flushing. We have thought about this but dropped the idea because of the extra tank necessary and the problem with the odor of grey water. It may start to smell bad very fast in the toilet.

I was a bit puzzled by this. Waste shower water, specifically, would typically be saturated with shampoo, soap, etc., wouldn't it? Presumably this soap would keep the “shower-water greywater tank” reasonably free of bacteria? So why would flushing with this kind of water make the toilet "smell bad"?

To be sure, if waste shower water were mixed with other greywater, for instance, from the kitchen sink, then that would be another matter. But I imagined that for toilet flushing, one would only recycle greywater from the bathroom shower, and the bathroom vanity sink. For toilet flushing, one would not used kitchen sink water.

In other words, I was imagining that there would be two greywater tanks, one for the kitchen, and the other for the bathroom. Would this change things? Would there still be a problem with toilet smell?


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C. SHOWERS & FAUCETS

Regarding type of shower we see this totally different. We had a very efficient camping shower in our Concorde and were constantly annoyed that it took very long to get wet fully. Especially the ladies with their long hair needed a lot of time to get wet and to remove all the shampoo again. The total amount of water used is the product of water flow per minute and the time in minutes. You save absolute nothing by using an efficient shower head, if you have to shower longer to get fully wet or free from soap.

So we took a totally different approach by using a large rain shower. You turn it on and you are totally wet within seconds. For this we installed separate high flow pumps for cold and warm water, which is mixed by a thermostat.

The same happens when you want to remove the soap. As there are separate controls for temperature and water flow, you can easily start and stop the water flow without changing temperature. One complete shower uses 10-15 l water.

[Aerated, “water-efficient”] faucets doesn't save any water if you have water use in mind. If you need 1 l of water for tee than you save nothing with a fancy faucet, it just takes longer. Important is that you can control the water flow easily.

So it is more of a design decision what you finally take.

Again, this particular piece of advice is priceless. Your system is very logical, it makes complete sense, and I wonder if it is more widely used in the RV industry?

In effect you constructed a shower system that gives you much more control over water temperature and mixture, without having to run water first to “test” and adjust for temperature. One can imagine how once one becomes experienced with your system, one just knows that a certain temperature setting will make one personally happy. Then, when one uses the second, separate control for water flow, the water comes out at exactly the right temperature, and one does not waste 30 seconds (and 30 seconds of water flow….) adjusting for temperature. And it's the same for the next person who uses the shower, if their ideal temperature is different.

Simply brilliant. The problem here here seems to be that standard, “all in one” domestic shower controls try to pack too much into a single device: a single handle that both rotates and pulls out, controlling both water flow + temperature. When these first arrived on the market they seemed wonderfully convenient, and of course they are when used in a home setting, and where water loss is not so critical. But in an off-road RV where every ounce of water is precious, your system is much better!

If you don't mind sharing the information here, who manufactured your shower column? And the high-flow pumps and the thermostat, if a different manufacturer?

Also thanks for the good advice regarding the kitchen and vanity water taps. As you say, if you need to boil a liter of water, it doesn't matter whether it's aerated or not. The justification for an aerated vanity or kitchen tap probably applies specifically to washing hands, or perhaps cleaning pots. If the water is aerated, one will get just as much overall “dispersal” of water over skin and pot surfaces, but using less water. Or at least I think that seems to be the basic idea. But even that may not be fully justified in practice. Because if you use less "aerated" water and the pot is still dirty, you have to continue using water until it does become clean.....


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C. SHOWERS & FAUCETS

What may be interesting are appliances like the Quooker, because you can save energy with it in every days use.

Thanks for this link to Quooker's boiling-water tap specifically.

A boiling-water “on demand” tap makes terrific sense, not just from an energy usage point of view, but also water usage. When making a cup of tea, for instance, you simply discharge exactly the amount of water you need for tea into your cup, and no more. Whereas even using an electric kettle, you will probably find yourself filling it with a bit more water than you will actually drink – see http://www.quooker.co.uk/enuk , http://www.quooker.co.uk/enuk/collection , http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7101006/Is-this-the-death-of-the-kettle.html , http://www.quooker.de/fileupload/Documenten_DE/Quooker_Broschure_sep_2013.pdf , and http://www.quooker.co.uk/fileupload/pers/geschiedenis/UK/History_booklet.pdf


[video=youtube;CRddGo813jI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRddGo813jI [/video]


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D. WATER-MAKING / PURIFICATION

Yachts can constantly use water makers because they a floating in water that can be used as source and at least motor yachts have a generator running constantly to provide electric power. Osmosis from salt waster is very power hungry and solar power collected by PV on a vehicle will not be enough, if you have to use electricity for other things also. Water making by osmosis takes a long time and is then only worthwhile when staying longer at the place where the water is available. Please keep in mind that with osmosis you can use only a certain percentage of the raw water, depending on the water quality. You also have to maintain the system.

For low to medium quality water found purification with filters is the way to go. There are a lot of systems available in the market with different performance. The most famous are Katadyn and Seagull. They are very costly and the water throughput is not very high compared to the cost, so most people use them only as poor drinking water source. In my opinion, if you want a larger volume then other filter solutions combined with UV disinfection are a better way to go.

What is the brand of the water filtering system that you use? Same question as above. Again, your system in particular sounds comprehensive, powerful, and effficient. Would you be wiling to pass along the name of the manufacturer?


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E. REFRIGERATOR & FREEZER

We use 24 V fridge and freezer build for marine use, because they can run without any inverter directly from the battery, they are made to run in all positions seen with offroad vehicles, they keep the content where it is intended to be, they have reliable door locks.

Home appliance become more and more popular for RVs because they are cheap compared to the 12/24 V versions, which also use different compressor technology. Top modern home-appliance fridges are very energy efficient, but the necessary constantly running inverter will make the advantage negligible. Reliability in offroad-use may not be of concern, because there are already a lot of people using them off-road, and I didn't read any negative comments yet.

Who is the manufacturer of your refrigerator? And perhaps the approximate size, in liters or cubic feet?

As near as I can tell, apart from Dometic, the other two big names in specifically marine refrigeration are Nova Kool and Indel Webasto.

Nova Kool advertises that its fridges can function well even when tilted 30 degrees, because they use a Danfoss compressor – see http://www.novakool.com , http://www.novakool.com/ourlineup.htm , http://www.novakool.com/support/danfoss_dc_compressor.htm , http://www.novakool.com/support/documents/R134a_12-24V_DC_11-01_Cn46c702.pdf , http://www.novakool.com/support/basic_refrigeration_principles.htm , http://www.novakool.com/funfacts2.htm , http://www.novakool.com/documents/30ANGLE2011.pdf , http://www.novakool.com/documents/WhybuyaNovaKoolrefrigerator.pdf . And in its promotional literature, Nova Kool writes:

“While the trend in manufacturing seems to be to design high tech units that are difficult to diagnose and service, Nova Kool is committed to simplifying its product with less moving parts that are field replaceable by the end user of the refrigerator. Many of our units are in remote areas of the world, so it is important that the units are simple and reliable.”

Alaskan campers uses Nova Kool.

For Indel Webasto, see http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/home/us/html/homepage.html , http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/Company/us/html/9898.html , http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/Company/graphics/1_Company_Catalogue_US.pdf , http://www.indelwebastomarineusa.com/Company/graphics/17_Download_Area_catalogue2013.pdf .


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We've already discussed vacuum-based, non-refrigerated food storage at length, so no need to address that here......


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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
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[biotect]

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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST


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F. DIESEL KITCHEN
+
G. GE MICROWAVE / HALOGEN OVEN

We never liked the idea of diesel hobs, because they are just not as comfortable as typical house-hold appliances, they do smell and they don't work at higher altitude very well. Original they were built for marine use at height zero, and at heights above 2000 m they don't work very well.

We have a normal electrical hob with Ceran surface and with mechanical switches. Induction saves energy, but adds more sources for failures. We save energy when cooking by using other appliances. I.e. we use the microwave to heat a cup of water, an electrical water kettle for heating larger amounts of water, like for cooking pasta. We use our two-sided contact grill to barbecue meat, fish, vegetables, ...

We use something similar [to the GE Advantium Microwave/Halogen] from Bosch, which combines normal oven functions with microwave. Something like this is certainly a must to make something delicious from base ingredients. It is used same as at home to bake bread and cake.

What would be the particular model of Bosch microwave/halogen oven that you use? And/or perhaps the size?

I tried searching for a microwave/halogen oven on Bosch's website, similar to the GE Advantium, but could not seem to find an equivalent product.


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H. SPLENDIDE WASHER / DRYER

Currently don't have [a laundry machine] on board, because for our current trips up to 6 weeks we don't need one. We have enough clothes with us and there is always a possibility to wash in between at a official camp site. Please keep in mind that washing needs a lot of energy and water, so it easier to use available infrastructure. Of course, when we will be on longer trips we will have one on board.

Here in Europe the small models of Candy are used very often. With some you can lock the drum from outside to avoid damage of the drum when going off-road.

Yes, I've heard that Candy washing machines are often installed in European RV's. For instance, Variomobil specifies this as an option – see http://www.candy-domestic.co.uk , http://www.candy-domestic.co.uk/products/default.aspx?catid=1 , and
http://www.candy-domestic.co.uk/products/default.aspx?catid=2 . But it has been very hard to track down exactly which Candy models are favored by European RV manufacturers. Candy's product range on the pages just linked is simply vast, and the key here is to find out which models, specifically, have a reputation for being robust enough to be suitable for RV use. And that external drum-locking feature seems especially important.

I tried tracking down suitable Candy models via RV discussion forums, but in the Anglophonic world “Spendide” and “Ariston” are so dominant, that it's impossible to find any leads about Candy. On German Wohnmobil forums things are not much better, because although Candy is vaguely mentioned, nobody seems to get specific about the best models for RV use– see for instance http://www.wohnmobilforum.de/w-t84843,start,15.html , http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...m.de/w-t84843,start,15.html&biw=1901&bih=1069 .


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J. HEATING and HOT WATER

We have a Webasto Thermo 90 ST diesel heater for both space heating and warm water. For warm water we have a boiler that is heated by a heat exchanger or electrically.

Thanks for the lead – see http://www.webasto.com/gb/markets-p...solutions/coolant-water-heaters/thermo-90-st/ , http://www.webasto.com/fileadmin/we...international/rv/data-sheet/rv-thermo-top.pdf , http://www.webasto.com/gb/markets-products/marine/heating-solutions/water-heaters/water-heaters/ .

Would you be willing to pass along the brand and size of the boiler? And heat exchanger?


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K. AIR-CONDITIONING

Currently we don't have air-conditioning, because we always like to adapt to the climate of the region we travel. But for redundancy regarding heating, we probably will add a highly efficient inverter air condition unit, combined with heat pump function.

What brands of “inverter air condition unit, combined with heat pump function” would you think would be worth investigating?


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L. SUPER THIN-FILM SOLAR & KIMBERLEY TROPICAL ROOF

The "innovation" of Kimberley is very old and has be used with stationary camp trailers for long time. With mounting regular panels on the roof you get this effect automatically. By design I avoided any holes in the roof, because they have disadvantages in hot and cold climate.


A kind of tropical roof should certainly be a design feature for the Terra Liner.

Very interesting that the “Tropical Roof” is not a Kimberley innovation! I did not know that. If you come across any other examples or images of a "Tropical Roof" used in stationary campers, please pass them along.

What would this sort of "second roof" be called in German? Not "Tropendach", but rather, the word or expression that German manufacturers of caravans and motorhomes will use to describe such a "second roof"?


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O. DIESEL SCENARIO: SOLAR, BATTERIES, and GENERATOR

Regarding generator I would looking into water-cooled units where the waste heat could be used for space heating and warm water. Fischer-Panda is a good start. It is important to have a unit with low maintenance. Nobody would like to do maintenance in cold climate every few weeks. Maintenance once a year would be ok.

Do you have a Fischer-Panda generator in your MANKAT? If so, what model? A model number would give me a good place to begin looking.

As with washing machines, there might be a bit of a transatlantic divide when it comes to generators. Winnebago, Fleetwood, Tiffin, and other Class-A motorhome manufacturers all seem to all specify Cummins Onan generators. However, interestingly enough, Newell does not.

The generator that Newell specifies instead is a bit difficult to determine, because Newell is not very forthcoming about the model it uses on its webpages. Instead, Newell simply states that its generators are 20 KW, and very low-noise – see http://www.newellcoach.com/features/standard-equipment/ , http://www.newellcoach.com/features/specifications/ . One has to search around a bit to figure out what make and model this might be.

As near as I can tell, Newell has used two brands: Martin Diesel, and Kohler – see http://www.newellcoach.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/NewellNews_Vol34Iss3.pdf , http://www.fmcmagazine.com/back-issues/2013/october/7483-newell-2020p?tmpl=component&print=1&page= , http://www.luxurycoachlifestyle.com...kw-kohler-diesel-generator-wont-power-ac.html , and http://www.luxurycoachlifestyle.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3549 .

The Martin Diesel CGS series of generators seems very attractive, because they are designed to be very low-noise – see http://www.martindiesel.com/index.htm , http://www.martindiesel.com/Products/products_generators.htm , and
http://www.martindiesel.com/Products/Generators/CGS Series.htm .

The Kohler looks none too shabby neither – see http://www.kohlerpower.com/index.htm , http://www.kohlerpower.com/mobile/category.htm?categoryNumber=12961&sectionNumber=13361 , http://www.kohlerpower.com/mobile/filterresults.htm?categoryNumber=12961&sectionNumber=13361 , http://www.kohlerpower.com/mobile/f...mber=12961&sectionNumber=13361&filter_1=60 Hz , http://www.kohlerpower.com/mobile/d...oryNumber=11861&filter_1=60 Hz&prodnum=232861 , http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/g3049.pdf , http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/g3044.pdf , http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/adv7391.pdf , and http://www.kohlerpower.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/adv7394.pdf .

If you have any time to look at this information, please let me know what you think. It's not clear whether or how either of these generators might be water-cooled.


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Q. DUAL HIGH-OUTPUT ALTERNATORS instead of a DIESEL GENERATOR?

We have done this for 5 years with a high power alternator and it worked fine as long as you move within the storage capacity of the battery. But if you stay longer than a week, in winter then you would have to run the engine, which is not accepted everywhere.

I also don't believe the numbers cited. It may be true that Ford engine is more silent and uses less fuel than the Fisher-Panda when the Ford is idling. But I don't believe that the alternators will produce the same power as the Fisher-Panda when it produces 4000 W. The power of alternators is heavily dependent on rpm. When the engine is idling, alternator normally deliver only a few 100 Watts. The transmission is normally designed to give the full power somewhere in the upper rpm range of the engine.

A comparison at idle is pretty useless. The comparison has to be done at a specific power output of generator and alternator.

Beside this, idling is not allowed in most countries.

That last line really got me thinking, because of course you are right, “idling is not allowed in most countries.”

So I wonder why Earthroamer thinks that its “dual alternator” solution is good enough? Presumably because the battery bank that Earthroamer provides is so massive, and the dual high-output alternators keep the battery bank so successfully charged up, that when one stops in a given location, there's quite a reserve to draw upon. And if the solar array on top is huge, then when one is fixed and immobile in a given location, presumably there is no need to run the engine – http://earthroamer.com/xv-lt/systems/no-noisy-generator/.

But eventually the battery bank has to be replenished by something other than solar, especially in winter as you suggest, but also in summer, if one has air conditioning.

Like you, the VP of Newell Customer Service, John Clark, advises against using an idling engine to run alternators to power the air-conditioning – see http://www.newellcoach.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/NewellNews_Vol34Iss3.pdf:

“I'm a big fan of using the generator when driving, especially in warm weather. But some people think they can save fuel by using an inverter/alternator combo to power their 110-volt air conditioning.
I recommend against this practice for several reasons.

For one thing, it doesn't save you anything. Whether you use the main engine or the generator to produce the necessary power, the net fuel usage is virtually the same because increasing the load on the alternator causes the main engine to consume more fuel. In addition, using an inverter to power your air conditioners puts a heavy strain on your alternator, especially when ambient temperatures are high. This is because, unlike conventional trucks, where the alternator sits at the front of the engine in free-flowing air, your coach alternator sits in the back of the engine, where the heat is high and air flow is minimal.

Here's another important issue: Where a truck has only two batteries to charge, your coach alternator has to keep eight batteries charged in addition to keeping the beer cold and the lights on. Given that it can cost as much as $2,000 or more to replace your alternator, I recommend that you use your generator instead, especially in warm weather.

Built to be used

If you're worried that using your generator as I've suggested might wear it out, don't be. During a service seminar I conducted at our recent Newell rally in Fort Worth, Texas, I asked seminar attendees whether any of them had ever seen a worn-out RV generator. The answer was a unanimous no. That corroborates my experience. In the Newell Service Department, we've seen coach generators with over 19,000 hours still going strong. And we've heard reports of generators with over 30,000 hours still operating. That's equivalent to traveling about 1.6 million miles at 55 M.P.H.”

So clearly, the solution here is both/and: both dual alternators, and a powerful 20 KW generator should be installed.


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P. ELECTRIC/HYBRID SCENARIO: SOLAR, BATTERIES, and DIESEL GENERATOR

For an electric/hybrid you need 2 units of something like this.

You have to power the vehicle fully during travel. With highway speed you will need about 100-150 kW power on average. Off-road you will need much more, at least for peak power. A part can be supplied from the battery storage, but sometime you have to fill the storage again.

May be you can make an arrangement with Tesla regarding use of the super chargers. But of course, they will not be available in the middle of nowhere. :sombrero:

Many thanks for the lead on the 120 KW Jenoptik magnet flywheel generator, used by hybrid buses and trolleys. This is an excellent lead to help motivate further research into a hybrid solution.

But just a few skeptical questions.....:sombrero:

1. One doesn't necessarily save space in contrast to a more conventional diesel engine in this hybrid scenario, does one? That Jenoptik generator is pretty darn big: 1.4 m long x 60 cm wide x 85 cm high, and it weighs 350 kg. The logical place to put it would be in the rear of the vehicle, as per a “Pusher” diesel placement, yes? Or do you think it would be narrow enough to locate on the side, slung low beside the chassis frame? It would weigh a great deal there, of course, but perhaps could be balanced by tanks on the other side?

2. However, if it's best for it to locate this generator somewhere along the mid-line of the vehicle, then “Pusher” placement seems best. But if there is going to be a bit diesel engine in the back anyway, why not install a regular diesel that directly drives the wheels, and just equip that engine with dual high-output alternators? Now sure, if the diesel engine directly drives the wheels, then 6 separate electric motors will not. But given that one already needs such a large diesel engine anyway, why make the system even more complicated, by adding electric into the mix? Will fuel efficiency dramatically improve?

3. Now of course there will be solar panels across every square cm of free space on the roof, and a large lithium battery bank. But presumably much of that energy will be needed to run the various systems of the motorhome. So how much of that energy would be genuinely available to run the 6 electric motors?

4. One could imagine a scenario in which it has been cloudy for a few days, one runs the electric motors off the batteries and drains them down, arrives at one's destination, and there is very little power left for anything else. So one needs to use the 120 kw diesel generator after all to recharge the system. And one can imagine this happening quite often.

So I guess I am just wondering if the extra complexity would be worth it? Particularly in an off-road motorhome where, ideally, systems should be simple enough so that one can do all basic repair and maintenance oneself, as you do on the engine of your MAN KAT?

These are just skeptical questions, and maybe there is no good basis for them. But I thought I should ask….


****************************************


In any case, thanks again for all of your responses. Every piece of additional information helps, whether it comes from you, other forum participants, reading Tom Shepppard's “Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide” (again, see http://www.desertwinds.co.uk , http://www.desertwinds.co.uk/expedition_guide.html , and https://www.rgs.org/NR/rdonlyres/7A814B01-5B83-4C27-A1F9-8B051E4294D6/0/HBETve.pdf ), discussing issues with other students and proffs, or just surfing the web.

A much clearer picture of the vehicle's systems and its interior layout is beginning to form, and I have you to thank for much of that!

All best wishes,


Biotect

 

[egn]

I didn't own a Concorde Liner, but a Concorde Charissma. As it was based on a Mercedes Sprinter the Design was more like COE, but driver behind engine. The room below bed was a garage.

The current liners use MAN TGL, MAN TGM and Mercedes Atego truck chassis. All this chassis are standard truck chassis, used without much conversion by Concorde.

Information about the filter system you fine here.


We use the Sealand VacuFlush 500 series and a vacuum generator looking similar to to the J series. The vacuum generator is placed just below the toilet head and everything is connected with very short pipes. The holding tanks are mad customer specific with PE to exactly fit the available room.

Our experience is, that grey water smells very bad after 1-2 days storage in the tank. Of course, we have no separation between shower and other sources. Anyway, we didn't choose to install a third smaller tank for shower water, because of the added complexity to keep tank always full enough for toilet flushing, as VacuFlush uses not much water.

The thermostat controls a pretty standard here in Germany. You can get them in any sanitary shop or even at discounters like Lidl or Aldi. And the shower panels are also standard.

When travel outside Germany using Hotels, or see faucets, ... in movies, I am always wondering why most of the time still two separate taps are used for warm and cold water. It looks to me that sometimes I look more than 30 years back.

Originally our fridge/freezer were from Isotemp in Italy, bout they have been bought by indel/Webasto. We have the Cruise 130 Drink Stainless Steel and the Cruise 65 Freezer Stainless Steel.


Our model iis not available anymore, but you can find similar models. The available room is 42 l.

And the hob is a so called "Domino" element with Ceran surface. Two cooking areas are enough when you use other appliances like the electrical water kettle to heat larger amounts of water.

You find the Candy washing machines and alternatives here. The Eumenia are also an Alternative, because they are even smaller and use less energy.

The boiler is a Isotemp Isotherm Basic 40 Double Coil with 750W/230 V heating element.

Regarding air-conditioners look for ones with at least A+ rating. The typical brands are Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Hitachi. Fujitsu, .... They should have COP/EER values above 5. My current favorite is the Mitsubishi Hyperinverter.

Of course, this are domestic air conditioners, not to be used during driving. They may have to be slightly modified to be able to be used in an RV, because a RV doesn't stand always on exactly horizontal surface and condensed water has still to flow out somewhere. If this problem has to be avoided, a specific mobile air-condition has to be used. But most of them doesn't support heating by heat-pump, and when they do, they are far from being so efficient as the domestic models.

The Tropical Roof is known as "Tropendach", "Doppeldach" or "Schutzdach".

We have no built-in generator currently, as we currently don't need one. As emergency unit we have a Kipor KGE2000, which we used since 7 years only a few hours to support others. I really don't want a conventional generator. When there will be a diesel fuel cell with a long lifetime available, I may add one in the future. This looks very promising in a time frame of about 5 years.

Regarding power of the generator I am actually looking into very compact units with a power of not much more than 2 kW, because all the power used internally comes from powerful inverters. Best would be a DC generator for direct charging the battery. The internal electricity network is connected to the external network only by wide voltage range chargers. An AC generator would only feed the chargers an would not have any direct connection. This is all done for protection of the internal network and also provides a non-interruptible power supply.

Diesel electric:
You are right, the engine/generator unit is big and heavy. But a large conventional engine and transmission are much bigger an heavier. I.e. the engine of the MAN KAT is 1,4 m x 1,1 m x 1,0 m and has a weight of about a ton. The transmission has a similar length, but a little bit smaller and has a similar weight. One could probably place two of this engine/generator units in the space used currently by KAT engine/transmission with less than half the weight.

The advantage is, that you can place it nearly anywhere, without having to think about to get the power to the wheels. You just install high voltage cables to the motor controller(s) and from there to the motors.

You cannot provide the power to move a heavy vehicle with the power provided by alternators. And the point is, that you don't need as much power for the fuel engine with a hybrid vehicle, because part or all of the power can come from much more powerful electric motors, buffered by the battery. The fuel engine/generator must only provide the average power and not the peak power necessary going up a hill or through off-road terrain. The peak power comes from the electrical motors, which take stored energy in the battery.

Regarding hybrid/electric drive trains there are many different concepts. Which on is best suited for an off-road overlander, I really don't know. The above engine/generator unit can be used for a serial hybrid drive train. But another possibility I can think of is a parallel-hybrid, where the fuel engine directly drives one axle and the other axles are powered by electrical motor. This can save an extra generator because you can use the electrical motors for the other axles as generator, when part of the fuel engine power is not used. But then you cannot charge battery when the vehicle doesn't move. And you loose redundancy.

I wouldn't install an electrical motor for every wheel, but for every axle only, and leave the axles as they are. And you cannot power the vehicle from solar power, because you may only get 10 kWh per day, but need about 150 kWh to go 100 km. Solar power is mostly needed for living. The energy for movement must come from fuel engines, or may be in the future from a powerful fuel cells.

When I see what you want to install in such a vehicle, then you have to drop the requirement of self-repair. It is already much to complex, even for the best mechanic. No modern engine can be repaired in the conventional way, like it was done before electronics found its way into them. Alone for diagnostic of problems you need equipment that you cannot take with you, even if you would get it from the manufacturers. And repair then consists of replacing modules. So the only way to achieve high availability is redundancy for all important components. This means you have to avoid single points of failure, and a conventional drive train is a single point of failure. A electric/hybrid power train allows full redundancy.

If you insist on self-repair than you have to go back very far and you would not be allowed to register a new vehiclke with such an old engine.

 

[biotect]

egn,

Wow, that was fast!! Many, many thanks.

Will follow up with any remaining questions in a later post. But just wanted to post my appreciation in the space immediately below your reply.....:sunny:

THANK YOU.


Biotect

 

[Victorian]

This one may give you some ideas about the dimensions of a lifting roof Unicat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfCEZIQ__qY

Another cool article I found about fully integrated campers is this one: http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9615

 

[biotect]

.

This one may give you some ideas about the dimensions of a lifting roof Unicat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfCEZIQ__qY

Another cool article I found about fully integrated campers is this one: http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9615

Hi,

Many thanks for the links!


******************************************

1. UniCat Pop-Up Video and Animated Fly-arounds


Your first sentence above provides a link to an excellent video that thoroughly explains UniCat's bespoke manufacturing process. But of course, it helps if one understands German.....

Great images of a UniCat climbing stairs, an animation of the Unimog suspension + chassis flexing, nice potted summary of Unimog history, and a paean to the labor-saving utility of modern mogs. Roughly 100,000 mogs currently driving German streets alone? No wonder Germany is so clean. ,,,:sombrero:

Thought it worth reposting here, as embedded video:




And, of course, it contains very useful information about the vertical travel of a UniCat Pop-up: 75 cm.


Here are some videos of UniCat CG-simulation fly-arounds, that also provide some sense of the “headroom” (or lack thereof) on the second floor of the Pop-ups. It seems clear that the second floors of UniCat Pop-ups are intended only as “crawling” or “crouching” spaces:





******************************************

2. The Kabe Royal Tower


The contrast here would be with a vehicle that has a “proper” second floor. Unfortunately, there do not seem to be many examples of vehicles with vertical Pop-ups that provide full second-floor headroom. One wonders why?

The following are some images of the Kabe "Royal Tower", a Swedish-made caravan that has a second-story penthouse. However, note that this is not a Pop-up – see http://www.kabe.se/de/ , http://www.kabe.se/de/katalog/ , http://www.starling-travel.com/2012/12/10/the-kabe-royal-tower-a-camper-with-a-second-story/ , http://www.urbanfar.dk/Camping.htm, and http://www.teamymse.net/pdf/kabe/KABE_Royal_Tower_2008.pdf :












So how does it negotiate bridges?

The Kabe Tower seems to have been a one-off, produced in 2008, but apparently not documented in Kabe's catalogs. For a video tour of the Tower interior, see http://www.campingdanmark.dk/kabe-2008-royal-tower.html .

And for some very beautiful interiors of roughly equivalent caravans made by Kabe today, see http://www.kabe.se/se/husvagnar/ , http://www.kabe.se/se/husvagnar/hacienda-1000-tdl/ , and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIWzTA-q0Y8:




Also see the 360-degree rotating view of the very beautiful Kabe “Hacienda” 1000 TDL, at http://360factory.com/se/kabe/2013/Hacienda-1000-TDL-KS/ . Like Kimberley, Kabe understands kitchen countertops; just imagine how much easier it will be to prep on a surface so comparatively generous.



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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.

 

[biotect]

.
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

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The Kabe “Hacienda” 1000 TDL provides one of the few examples of a high-end caravan or motorhome installed with what appear to be “domino hobs”:





One might think the installation of domino hobs would be more frequent, given their potential to allow future swaps and upgrades. The key would be to configure the countertop “cut-out”, into which the hobs insert, to allow for future flexibility, i.e. future contraction and/or expansion, depending on hob manufacturer and model.



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CONTINUED IN NEXT POST
.

 

[biotect]

.
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST

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3. Keystone “Outback Loft” Caravan


*************************************


One of the few examples I've yet come across of a vertical Pop-up that approaches full-height headroom (6 foot, 2 inches), is Keystone's “Outback Loft” Toy-Hauler – see http://outback.keystonerv.com , http://www.roamingtimes.com/rvreports/keystone-outback-loft-travel-trailer.aspx , http://www.starling-travel.com/2014/02/21/2009-keystone-outback-loft-a-two-story-rv/ , http://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide.com/2009/11/keystone_outback_travel_trailers.php , http://www.sonnysrv.com/inventory-s...+KEYSTONE+OUTBACK+27L+LOFT+W/+SLIDEOUT+AND+TV , http://www.avalonrvcenter.com/rv/medina+oh/keystone+traveltrailer/3032/keystone+outback+27l , http://blog.rvlifestyleexperts.com/2009/02/get-a-load-of-an-rv-deck.html:













But the "Outback Loft" is a fabric-sided soft Pop-up, and seems intended mainly as a 3-season viewing platform or elevated porch.

As Joe suggested in an earlier post, what's really needed is rigid walls all 'round. But how to achieve rigid walls in front with an XP-style Pop-up camper, seems a bit of an engineering conundrum..... Joe: promise that I will address that conundrum a few posts from now.


All best wishes,



Biotect

.

 

[biotect]

.

Another cool article I found about fully integrated campers is this one: http://www.allrad-lkw-gemeinschaft.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9615

Hi again,

Yes, it does seem as if the idea of “full integration” has occurred to many others before, including the participants on Germany's "Allrad LKW Gemeinschaft". Literally translated, "All-Wheel-[Drive] Truck Community", but a better translation would be "4WD Community".

Full integration has occurred to others no doubt for similar reasons. See Joe's post, for instance, about fully integrated 4x4 and 6x6 Australian mining-transportation buses, and an Australian fully integrated 4x4 motorhome….:ylsmoke:


******************************************

Furthermore, it seems that the insight that a rigid Tatra chassis would dramatically simplify body mounting has also been entertained before, right here on Expo, in a thread dating back to 2007 – see http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/8797-Tatra-Reliability . No big surprises, but fascinating that it occurred to the thread's originator back then that building on a torsion-free Tatra frame would eliminate much of the hassle of mounting a camper body:

I would think that the "torque-free-backbone-tube" system would let one build on the back much easier than on a traditional flexy frame. Just u-bold your camper directly to the rails.

Does anyone know if there are any weird handling characteristics due to the offset wheels?

Here's another interesting quote:

One of our field office fire crews has a custom wildland firefighting Tatra and they love it, parts availability is not a big problem. They take it to a 'big rig' service center for repairs and parts.

I've seen them take that big pig into some hairy terrain w/o any trouble, I've also seen them get it stuck frame deep in mud.... that was expensive.

I'll get some pics of the rig when I go back to work on Friday.

GaryMc never seems to have posted his pictures, but he was probably talking about the ATC Wildland Ultra XT – see http://www.angelfire.com/nv/blm/ATC.html .

I first came across this vehicle on a cool website about controlling “wildland fires” in the Great Basin, Nevada, at http://www.angelfire.com/nv/blm/page1.html . Before their Tatra arrived, the Nevada wildland fire-fighters used Unimogs – see http://www.angelfire.com/nv/blm/pics.html , http://www.angelfire.com/nv/blm/engines.html , and http://www.angelfire.com/nv/blm/unimog.html .

But about a decade ago they acquired a specially converted Tatra, made by the American Truck Company (ATC) – see http://www.angelfire.com/nv/blm/ATC.html , http://www.thebigredguide.com/fire-...n/sands-fire-apparatus-wildland-ultra-xt.html , and http://www.fireapparatusmagazine.co...t-uses-proven-czech-off-road-engineering.html :






In 2003 ATC built 6 of these vehicles on a Tatra 815 chassis, for the US Bureau of Land Management – see http://www.trucksplanet.com/catalog/model.php?id=1855:





Here's a video of the same:


[video=youtube;v-f4P7mrGIk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-f4P7mrGIk#t=159 [/video]


Sure, these are not RV conversions, but this is another example of how a certain vehicle type - namely, the large, off-road fire truck - demands a torsion-free, stiff frame.


A few more quotes from the same thread:

The current Tatras, including the cool 8 wheel monsters, offer CAT and Cummins engine choices. No more air-cooled diesels (which in reality were supposed to be very reliable). So no problem with parts and service world-wide for the engines.

Also, is there any functional advantage to the swinging half-axle design over a conventional setup beyond simply eliminating frame flex? (although that would make mounting a camper MUCH simpler...)

Some interesting questions in that thread, in particular about Tatra reliability and worldwide service, but most of them went unanswered….. Any takers here, in this one?

All best wishes,



Biotect

 

[biotect]

.

There is no doubt that you are an EXECPTIONAL researcher, however that does not make a designer!

Hi Joaquin,
Yes, fully agreed!!! :iagree:

I am not being coy, but I probably can't share my designs at this stage. Please trust me, however: 1 year and 3 months from now, after I graduate, I will.

I don't want to go into the details, but let's just say they are “complicated”, involving outside sponsorship, etc. To get a sense of the potential complexity, see http://observatory.designobserver.com/entry.html?entry=12667 and http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-ownership/c-ownership-faq/c-ownership-faq-student.htm . So best to be cautious.

There are also other, additional reasons why I would prefer to remain (somewhat) anonymous right now. A link to my website would disclose my name and identity, which I would prefer to not reveal at present. Some are more comfortable using their real names and disclosing full identities on public discussion forums, others are not. It also depends on the forum, and the topics discussed. My own position is that nobody should force anyone else to "out" their real identity on an Internet blog. After all, the opportunity to enjoy some degree if anonymity is why many of us participate in such forums in the first place.

Such considerations will apply doubly, as perhaps you might admit, after you read the following.


************************************

1. Where I am "Coming From"


Now as explained earlier in the thread, this will also be my MFA thesis project, so at one level my motivation is simple: fulfilling an academic requirement. But clearly there's a lot more going on here than just that. I love traveling, I've lived for extended periods in at least 10 different countries, so I am a "fully paid up" nomad. I first experienced culture shock, oh, at around age 6.

In effect, I was born vagabond.

Psychologists would classify me as a "TCK", or "Third Culture Kid" -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_culture_kid , http://tckid.com/what-is-a-tck.html , and http://www.denizenmag.com/third-culture-kid/ . Except that, for many of us who have multiple passports and who traveled a great deal as kids, the label does not quite work. It's still a label invented by rooted nationals who imagine TCK's as having been messed up somehow, because we spent so much time living "abroad" when young. The TCK label seems to implicitly suggest that we are struggling to establish an authentic sense of national belonging that evaded us when we were children. Sure, the TCK label doesn't have to suggest this, but it usually does so in practice. After all, why psychologize a condition of post-national “rootlessness”, if you think it's a perfectly healthy condition, and not pathological at all?

So I don't like the TCK label, for the simple reason that I don't think that I need to define myself in national terms. National belonging, flags, patriotism, what have you: it's for other people. The TCK label is still a "negative" descriptor, a way of defining a condition of cultural hybridity only in negative terms, in contrast to supposedly positive and normative national belonging, narrowness, jingoism, etc. For me, my identity is not about "lacking” a nation, but rather, it's about being willing to embrace the whole planet. The TCK label fails to capture the psychological fact that if you move around enough, "abroad" and "homeland" cease to exist as meaningful categories.

Imagine yourself time-transported back to ancient Greece when it was organized as a series of city-states, and no higher form of patriotism or allegiance other than one's city was even conceivable. The fierce allegiance that most Greeks had to their "hometown", and their willingness to kill and be killed for the sake of their city, would strike us as a bit strange, yes? That's sort of how a planet still balkanized by nation-states looks to post-nationals.

But don't worry, I'm not political at all, in the sense that I am not an activist or anything. For me being post-national is mostly about personal identity: it's about locating my identity in places other than my passports. For instance, I am a Buddhist and a designer, before I am a citizen of any particular country. See the following talk by Pico Iyer to get a sense of this:




One suspects, however, that explanations like Pico Ayer's won't do much good. If anything, they tend to really piss off people for whom nationalistic patriotism is a value, an intrinsic feature of what it means (for them) to be a fully moral human being. Indeed, what it means (for them) to be a "real" human being at all. For committed nationals, post-nationals like myself are somehow weird, alien, inhuman, morally rejectable creatures. Pico Ayer's cultivated Oxbridge accent and lisp probably don't help: one can imagine redneck Americans in particular (i.e. not most Americans.!!. ) thinking that Pico is gay, even though he has long been married – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pico_Iyer .

There is probably an unbridgeable gulf of separation, a chasm of incommensurability, between nationals and post-nationals. As Pico Ayer suggests, post-nationals tend to strongly gravitate towards each other, no matter where they're "from" (whatever that might mean.....), because they have more in common with each other than they have anything in common with nationals (roughly 6 minutes, 30 seconds into the video). It just does become a bit tiresome debating national belonging and identity with someone still glued to their passport. Much easier instead to simply date other post-nationals, and enjoy the planet in all its magnificent, bloomin', buzzin' confusion, without having to hear constant invidious comparisons and judgments.....


************************************

2. A TerraLiner for Post-National Vagabonds


Now like many born vagabonds who love traveling, I'm sick and tired of packing/unpacking. It's not changing countries, and the consequent linguistic and cultural "helplessness" that bothers me. Like Pico Ayer, I love that aspect of travel. I love feeling like a child again, forced to experience and understand the world anew. With email, Skype, and Facebook it's also easy to stay in touch with friends worldwide.

Rather, it's the packing/unpacking, and setting up new apartments, that wears thin. What many of us post-nationals really want is a TARDIS -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TARDIS . No, we don't want a TARDIS because we secretly yearn for a "home" to cling to. Rather, what we want a TARDIS for the shear convenience of the thing!

In short, those who imagine that I will be designing a rock-crawling expedition vehicle whose primary purpose is to get as far away as possible from "civilization", people, and cities, will be disappointed. Or they might find my agenda confusing, because that's not my agenda at all.

Rather, I want to design a "TerraLiner" for post-national vagabonds like myself.

It's that simple. I want to design a go-anywhere motorhome that will suit the lifestyle of a post-national global nomad; a vehicle that's equally "at home" sitting in a First-World RV park, as it is driving along a Latin American bad road.


************************************

3. Personal Travel Experience


So to answer your second question, no, I have little personal experience camping off-road for two months in the Australian Outback, in a campervan or motorhome. As I wrote earlier, I've always driven SUV's (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Ford Maverick, G-wagen), and my personal travel experience has primarily been by backpack, cheap hostels, jet, train, motorbike, a few times by Landrover with RTT in North Africa, and by sailboat.

I am an avid sailor: I love boats, beaches and water; have surfed a few times, but I'm still a strict amateur; have much more experience windsurfing and kite-surfing, as well as sailing larger boats, from Lasers to 25 m yachts; and a number of times it has occurred to me that maybe I should be designing a large catamaran or trimaran instead?

But that's been done before -- see for instance http://www.offshoreodysseys.com/yachtshare/vessel.php , http://www.thekiteboarder.com/2013/10/discovery-ii-prepares-launch/ , http://www.offshoreodysseys.com , http://www.cabrinhaquest.com/cabrinha-quest/ , http://www.cabrinhaquest.com/crew/ , http://www.cabrinhaquest.com/itinerary/ , and http://www.cabrinhaquest.com/videos/ :


[video=vimeo;54337578]http://vimeo.com/54337578 [/video] [video=vimeo;80856579]http://vimeo.com/80856579 [/video]
[video=vimeo;89751805]http://vimeo.com/89751805 [/video]

There's also something a bit too “controlled” about seeing the world via yacht – see http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...hics-of-Third-World-Travel-by-Motorhome/page8 . Sure, there are many places that yachts can go, that land vehicles can't. But vica-versa is also true, and most human beings live on land, not on water.

In short, I've been imagining this as a planetary discovery vehicle for global nomads who want to live everywhere, and nowhere in particular.

As Iyer suggests, there are now over 200 million people worldwide who live in countries that are “not their own” (roughly 4 minutes, 40 seconds into the video). Although many of them are refugees who yearn to return “home”, many (and especially their children) are not, and soon enough “there will be more of us, than there are Americans”. There are now millions of us who were labeled “TCK's” by well-meaning psychologists at international schools back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. We're now adults, many of us are successful, some of us are rich, and many of us are completely unapologetic about our post-national consciousness.

We are happy with who we are. We just need a Tardis to mitigate the drudgery of packing up.

Hope that answers your questions, and does not generate too many more?

All best wishes,



Biotect


PS – Casa Azul is a wonderful vehicle. Is it yours? In the next few posts I will explain why. But first, would you mind posting more pictures of Casa Azul, perhaps 10 or so of the best?

 

[LoRoad]

.
I am not being coy, but I probably can't share my designs at this stage. Please trust me, however: 1 year and 3 months from now, after I graduate, I will.

I don't want to go into the details, but let's just say they are “complicated”, involving outside sponsorship, etc. To get a sense of the potential complexity, see http://observatory.designobserver.com/entry.html?entry=12667 , http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/copy/c-ownership/c-ownership-faq/c-ownership-faq-student.htm . So best to be cautious.

Given the point of the first article you've posted, i.e. 'student' ownership, I think you may have just given that up by making the statement you just publicly made here, given the premeditation of your statement. Therefore, for all our sake and your own sanity - you might want to reconsider the sharing part. Just a suggestion.

 

[biotect]

Not sure if I follow you?

If the designs have been made public elsewhere 15 months from now, why couldn't I share them without worry here, then?

As the articles make clear, the question of "student ownership" versus "institutional ownership" has (probably) not yet been tested in court. Almost all Art schools that I am familiar with insist that they a least share the copyright of student work produced with the "assistance" of their professors. It's understandable why they should insist on this: just imagine the legal and financial hassles Art schools would experience, if they could not freely publish work by students in their promotional literature. Most students consider this an honor, and a chance to gain a bit of free publicity. But some students are ornery, and might demand this, that, or the other thing..... So because this claim that Art schools make -- that they share copyright -- may or may not hold up in court, many of them now demand that students sign contracts at the beginning of their studies, agreeing as much. And things were even more complicated in my own case!

I'd like to post some of my preliminary sketches here, but I need to consult first.

And even if I do post some sketches, I would still prefer to remain somewhat anonymous, at least for now.....

Think of it this way.

Since I began this thread, quite a number of people have written to me in private, expressing admiration for the mere fact that I started a thread like this on ExPo, specifically, i.e. on an American overlanding discussion forum. Yes, this is how they put things. They characterized ExPo as a forum in which puritanical participants are quite ready and willing to pass judgment on others whose “style” or “type” of overlanding they consider morally objectionable. They characterized ExPo as a forum in which discussion and exploration of larger overlanding vehicles seems generally verboten, de facto not allowed. And they drew an explicit contrast to overlanding as it is discussed and practiced everywhere else in the world, outside the United States.

Now quite honestly, I don't know what to make of those private messages. Needless to say, I don't know if their experiences of having been “pounced on” here on ExPo were idiosyncratic, and I don't know what discussion on other, non-American forums tends to be like. I haven't spent enough time on the German forums, for instance, to be able to say whether they are more sympathetic to larger overlanding machines, or not. Perhaps egn or others might know?

Furthermore, my own experience posting here on ExPo has been completely positive, and I've found it a useful place in which to sharpen some of the more "conceptual" aspects of my project. The information that has then come my way in return -- all the information provided by egn, for instance, or grizzlyj's suggestions to look into Tatra at length, or Joe's info about Australian integrated vehicles -- has been simply terrific, and will prove invaluable. My natural tendency is to want to share, discuss ideas, and exchange imagery, including my drawings. However, given those private messages, seems best to exercise some degree of caution?

As long as I post lots of information, at the very least, others might find the information useful?

All best wishes,



Biotect