Alright!
Bio - here are my thoughts on slide-outs and pop-ups! (...you asked for it!)
Disclaimer: The following are MY SUBJECTIVE opinions - I have NO real-world experience with Slide-Outs at all!!
However, at the present stage of my Skoolie-Conversion-Plans/Dreams - this is what I would do, if I could get to it right now!
A] There is a few sites I will refer to:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/expedition-vehicles/933305-f-700-4x4-camper.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYDBwWwrEFY
http://www.oldboyrecords.com/thebus/
http://lemonheadpress.com/bus-conversions/
B] A few words to the Huge Windows first: I know you are dead-set for it - just some considerations:
B1] On the Burstner "Panorama" - brochure I cannot find ANY means to shadow my face from the sun or other blinding light! Not to say they don't have actual blinds, just can't see them, but if you are thinking about flashy transparency changing show windows, think again - IF this is an option it better be available on short notice, like "painting" your hand over the window (some camera or sensor would read the movement and shadow the according areas of the windscreen)....
Other than that make sure you have some means to pull a REAL shadow down like the red college bus in post #84 of the above "Pirate" link - about 1/2 way down! You do NOT want to have to drive into a setting sun for any amount of time passing 30 seconds! You don't believe it - rent a car and try it!
C] You listed a whole bunch of Slide-out manufactures - well, I am sorry, NO IDEA! I had a look at a few component providers (US) and was either not very impressed or somewhat shocked at the prices (I am from the DIY camp....so not really a reference for a serial production). In any case if you already build a new concept truck - and I would suggest/hope you eventually will end up with a new Space-frame design, you might as well design your own slide-outs, really not too hard to do.
What may be hard is, not to OVER-design them!
D] Pop-ups:
You mentioned interest in possibly incorporating solid pop-ups as a few Expedition builders are doing lately.
Personally I think - if you go to 3.95m max hight from the start - you won't really need a pop-up.
If you DO the space frame design - you will also be able ot lower the interior floor a lot compared to put only put a box on top of a existing chassis.
However - you may want 1 or 2 partial flip-ups, like the Super-Rig in post #746 "Pirate"-link.
In any case - I'd rather incorporate a "optional" pop-up like the Wothahellizat bedroom - for climates that can accommodate it....
E] The Unimog Swing-outs: Well, if you go through the trouble of making a part of the side-walls movable, you might as well do it right! The way these swing-outs are done, they are giving 1/2 the possible space gain away.... [Frankly - I don't like this particular Unimog set-up at all, to me it feels like a sterile OP! ...but whatever fits the owner I say!]
F] Looking at various systems - at this time I am between a rack and pinion arrangement (see basic idea in the "Oldboy Records" - link) and a Lead Screw and Nut Drive (threaded rod) - both electrically driven, both with a simple manual disengage (slip joint clutch) for manual over-ride either with a turn-handle (like in a jack-screw-drive car-jack) or a ratchet or a cordless electric drill.... - here you got 2x redundancy!! (DON'T want to get caught with slides stuck out!!)
F1] "Oldboy"-Link - have a look through the build pics - the slide-outs mechanics look rather crude, but I think in the pics they are just mocked up. Actually the whole bus is a little ....... "rough", but hey! The guy doesn't seem to be a professional metal or wood worker and still, he made himself a Skoolie-Conversion with a raised roof and 4 slide-outs and is rolling! I am still dreaming, ...so I better shut up!
You get the idea about HOW his slide-outs work, .....and they are fast!! SECONDS! Watch the youtube-link!!
You can also see, that he uses a raised floor - keeping fresh-water INSIDE the heated area and also creating the room for the slide-out mechanics.
In the pics and video you see the slide-outs with an elevated floor - in the final bus they are level with the central floor.
G] "Pirate"-Link: Sample for part of "my" slide-out construction plan...
Well, hopefully you have the time to at least flip through the whole thread quickly!!
"Lemonhead"-Link: This fellow is doing an excellent Skoolie conversion, has great skills and good finish on his work, despite missing proper tools for heavy work, excellent corrosion proofing and a perfect roof raise. He is copying the system from the "Pirate"-build and adds a little detail....[side rollers to keep inner slide-tube centered]
G1] My personal opinion to the "Pirate"-build: MASSIVELY overbuilt - all heavy-duty - Canada Lumberjack Style!! Like it or not.
On the other hand, he might be right on massively over-built: Have a look at his signature!!
The guy obviously has his own shop and has EXCELLENT skills for anything and all he builds! He has the perfect tools and lots of them and DEFINITELY knows how to weld properly!!
His build is not exactly what I would want - but from a technical/quality/ruggedness point of view it does not get much better!
Also - the whole concept does not fit your "fully integrated and rigid frame" requirement - see his box-frame join - post #10
G2] post #1, #5, and following:
You get an excellent idea what a Square-tube Space Frame looks like! Personally I would probably put in at least one triangulation on each side, but it is obviously sturdy as it is! [I am just a sucker for triangulation! Bio - I don't know if this is up your alley, probably more like your engineering friends' - But in basic Heavy Vehicle Construction I run by a few simple construction "rules":
- Triangulate everything possible!
- Try to use Tension and Compression - Avoid Torsion and Bending (except where specifically used on purpose - e.g. torsion springs)
- Welds are perfect for about everything - still I try to use welds to just "hold pieces in place" if possible and not to transmit forces - e.g. put a beam on TOP of a vertical member instead of welding it LATERALLY to it. If you have professional weldors and welders not really a problem, but might as well....
G3] As you can see with a Space Frame - even for serial production - there will be mostly one by one production with a LOT of hand fabrication - same as monocoque....
It doesn't really matter if you go FULL Space Frame Box/Chassis or just a Box on a frame - the box will likely be built like a Space Frame as in the pirate link.
G4] Now have a look at it from a "ease of manufacture" point of view - ALL STRAIGHT lines!! Relatively easy to build!
Make this fancy two-dimensional curves and it starts to get expensive fast! Make it compound curves and it becomes outright crazy expensive!
It is also easier to built a sturdy boxy box than a sturdy curvy box, ESPECIALLY considering that you want to have huge voids in the box-structure - where the big windows go.....
G5]
- post #27 you can see the big hole where his slide-out goes!
- post 49 dramatically demonstrates the difference between a huge windshield and a "proper" one! Keep in mind the Terraliner will go the same places where the truck goes - gravel roads, fire roads, logging roads and general dirt track roads.....
- post 132 sample of the very best motivation one can have!!
- post 156 - slide-out construction begins!
- 166 - more details!!
- 179 - more details
- 182 - slide-out box! Note: Same sturdy space frame as the big box! Beautiful welds!
- 228 - lead screw details
- 229 - installed - quote from the text at the bottom: "Everything works very good, you can deploy and retract the slide with 2 fingers on a wheel wrench, the lug size on the truck is the same size as the nut that is on the slide, ...." - Indicates, that this thing needs very little effort to move!!
- 261 - installed and box seals! [Though I would use Bios idea too - inflatable seals for tight fit!]
- 287 - sample for SERIOUS rear bumper
- 311 - finished box moving out.....
- 329 - oil field bus conversions
- 384 - SERIOUS front bumper with winch [ He has a 15k lb winch in there - in my book not enough - you really want to get to about twice as much as your estimated GVW...]
- 397 - Fold down bull bar!!
- 479 - Fancy tool - MAG DRILL! Also, frame chassis mount
- 592 - If you decide on a trailer for the toys - WATCH out for the corners!! Especially if the Terraliner articulates going up a steep incline and the trailer is still on the flats... - you want to get a seriously long tongue on the trailer....
- 608 - tow hook relocation! (see 592!)
- 658 - It seems he didn't like the air suspension on the first rig [honestly - it was not exactly the best set-up when it comes to Overland and air] - Definitely NOT integrated - box and driver cabin separate no pass through.
- 693 - extendable tow hook
- 721 - the 1st rig changed a little!
- 746 - flip-up roof, slide-outs and trailer (...AND round nose and square boxes! DA...)
H] ALRIGHT - so, what would
I do?
H1] Considering the proposed size of Terraliner I'd suggest 3 slide-outs, 2 on one side and 1 on the other, NO pop-up, but a fold out for extra air in tropical settings.....
H2] One item I NEVER saw addressed on any slide-out build I got my eyes on: Closed-position LOCKS!
I NEVER saw any mentioned in any detailed build-log, so I assume the builders consider no need for them.
The builder of the "Pirate"-Rig, probably gets away without locks as his is a rather small slide-out and his Lead Screw drive is certainly self-locking.
The "Oldboy"-Bus though ......I could imagine with some "pronounced" turning on a twisty road, all it takes something letting go on the garage-door drives and the slide-outs are goin' slid'n!!
On the Pirate-Rig the box sits most likely tightly in the box frame, but there is still no positive force transfer between the box the the slide-out structure.
On the bus even less so...
This is not acceptable for me.
"My" slide-outs will have locks in all 4 corners and depending on their final length also 1/2 way down the bottom and top frames - something like a angled lever pulling the box tightly to the frame and locking it in place - this way I can again establish complete integrity of the structural cage - as if there where no slide-outs! [Obvious use would be a electro-magnetic actuator in each position or a single one over push-pull tubes and corner-levers.....some way, that I can override by hand or with a hand-tool.
Now the trick with slide-outs is (for me) to build them so, that they:
a) Maximize the space - let them slide out as much as possible! Max width of your ride is 2.50m so I suppose you could do 1.50-1.80 for a one-side only slide. If you have 2 opposing slides - 1m each is about it, max! ...or is it - see below!
b) The interior is still usable when they are in the in-position!!
- Nothing worse, than a slide-out blocking access to the kitchen, you are stuck in traffic and can't get the slide out to get a coffee!
- ...or you dead tired, weather is miserable, but you HAVE to get out and slide by hand, because the e-motor is acting up - ....and it s bloody cold and drizzling - ..and unless the slide goes out you can't get to your bed-room or worse the JOHN!!
So - THAT'S where your can prove your innovative design genius!! Get it ALL in one Nice Big Package!!
b1) One possibility is (though never saw that, ....yet), to integrate a door (or two) in the for-aft sides of the slide(s), in such a manner, that they either let you get outside when the slides are out, or - let you pass into the slide from the inside, when the slides are in!! Might be a little cramped, with the boxes in, but as long as you can access everything - okay! Kitchen, Bathroom, Toilet, Bedroom.
b2) Another item I still need to explore is: to let two slides slide into each other in the closed position! Considerations b)+b1) become even more complex now!
But I seriously want to brain-storm possibilities here!
[There are a few military-containerized units, that nearly triple interior space this way. Obviously for transport any items inside the container have to be locked into the smaller box - not really practical for a Mobilhome - but maybe a less maximized version can be developed.
E.g. two-place dinette, expands into 4 or 6 place unit when out - opposite slide contains complete galley and partially drives into the dinette-box when in.
When both are out you have either a 2-place dinette and LOTS of floor space or extend the dinette into a seriously big table with still plenty of floor space left.
With both units in - you STILL have a 2-place dinette (or folded up) and a narrow passage past the galley, but STILL access to all galley features!
At the end - slide-outs are not really about space you MUST have, but what about space you WANT to have! Especially if your intention is to hang out for extended periods of time in one location.
Then, if you build them right, it can be done so, that ONE push of a button gives you "Crammed to Palace" in 30 seconds or less!!
Now if you STILL want a solid pop-up - you just have to pop-up before you slide out!
[However considering that you would want the slides at near interior height - the pop-up doesn't really give you that much extra-usable room, just another dimension of space - you still want to design it so, that you have FULL standing-up room with the pop-up down!
[Forget the solid full length pop-up!! Go for the Wothahellizat-tropical-roof fold-out bedroom!]
H3] Now - at the present time I favor the following layout for "my" boxes:
- Rugged frame on the main-body (remember, "my" boxes would presently go into a converted US-Schoolbus with a roof-raise maximized to 3.90 or 3.95m)
- 3-4 slide-outs
- Slide boxes same rugged construction as main-body frame, lots of triangulation.
- TWO extension slides that carry all the weight - similar construction to the Pirate-single slide tube, but smaller/lighter construction
- SINGLE center Lead screw with electric drive, manual back-up [This way I hope to achieve a shallower slide mechanism - the jack screw is between the slide-tubes, not on top....
- Cam-locks in all corners for in-position, if one long instead of two shorter slides, then additional cam-locks at 1/2 distance top and bottom.
- With proper installation practices you can build anything into the slides you want, though I think I would stick to the main body for at least the toilet.
- You mentioned inflatable seals - I had these in mind since the very beginning - no new tech here - Aviation uses these since ages to seal doors and hatches on pressurized fuselages - though may be new for mobil-home slide-outs! Would try to get big diameter tubes - need less pressure, resulting in less tube movement, and less wear. You only need to seal, not pressure-seal!!
- Be aware! The more slide-outs, the more underfloor space you use up for slide-out tubes - with 4 units you got 8 tubes and 4 Lead Screws!!
- I think the Austrians (Actionmobil) use a scissors-mechanism to support the box and hydraulics to actuate it all - ...I think...might be wrong....
- Obviously you want the insulation and ruggedness of the slide-boxes to match the rest of the frame-work, at the end they are supposed to be a structurally integral part when in and locked.
Actually - if properly designed/built the slide-outs can easily ADD additional stiffening and load carrying structure compared to no slides!!
From my point as a possible client for the Terraliner (...well, wishful thinking! I doubt I could ever afford that Rig!) - I would love SOLID slide-outs!!
Definitely worth the added weight - especially if you do 6 wheels anyway!!
[I believe things are getting better, but a mayor turn off is still problems with the slides because of flimsy construction and and faulty design...NOT because they are inherently troublesome]
......'nough!
thjakits
PS: If you care for, I can roughly outline "my" Skoolie-Conversion Dream/Plan - as I would intend to build to be able to go to similar places as I think Terraliner is intended to go! My Skoolie would be nowhere near as innovative as Terraliner, BUT this might give you another insight from a possible target-client point of view! Let me know....
[Now of course - there is this bloody thread on Expedition Portal about 6x6 and 8x8s and Chinese Railroads and what not!! ..... and these guys totally messed up my perfect Skoolie Conversion plan!! Damn!!:friday: ]
