Test driving a bunch of pistola's...

[robert]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombodad
The coolest part? DA/SA. Only pistol in the world with second strike capability.




Actually, I think he may have left out that it may be the only semi-auto without an exposed hammer that is capable of multiple trigger pulls on a defective round.

I thought there was another "hammerless" semi auto that had such a capability as well but my mind fails me.

I can answer that one for you- The FN FortyNine came out well before the Taurus (FN also made the 49 years ago which was a semi auto rifle). It was the precursor to the FNP series and had a striker that was designed to replicate the feel of a double action revolver- it failed miserably. The trigger pull is horrendous; it's somewhat smooth, but loooooonnnnggg. The gun feels great in the hand and was very reliable, just had the cursed trigger as well as a retarded rail like the first Glocks instead of a picattiny style. A second strike capability may be nice in a .22 where rimfire cartridges occasionally fail to go off on the first strike (particularly with light hammer strikes), but in a defensive gun you need to be doing a failure drill as soon as it fails to go bang.

I've got one of the FortyNines I picked up as part of a trade in '06; it's been utterly reliable, but there are no accessories available for it and that trigger pull.... It's so bad it's not worth me trying to sell or trade it off- I'd feel guilty doing so. They don't sell when they show up on Gunbroker either; it doesn't help that factory 16rnd mags are near impossible to find and when you do they run around $60/each. FN has pretty much disowned and disavowed it, preferring to pretend it doesn't exist. http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg19-e.htm


And FWIW, I really don't like Taurus guns. They seem to be very hit or miss but generally have average to poor fit and finish with mostly horrible triggers that are hard to get smooth and the ergonomics just don't tend to work for me (their Beretta 92 copy, PT99, is a decent gun if you do some work on the trigger). Yes, I've owned a couple of them and still have an early model 94 and an inherited model 85.

 

[BIGdaddy]

I'm with you, Robert. Taurus DOES seem hit or miss. No matter how much I dig the 24/7 or PT111/145 line of semi's, I just could never get around all the negative reviews.

Whereas companies like Ruger, Springfield, S&W, CZ-USA, Glock etc have fans as well as haters, the online discussion centers mostly about liking or disliking certain features or ergonomics.

As a whole most would be able to agree that those companies put out an excellent line of products backed by a great warranty. Me, and Glocks, for example. I would never pay money for one, but I know that if I was issued one as a cop, etc, that I would be able to stake my life on it...Taurus? not so much.

 

[Dave Bennett]

The number one reason I love my Ruger P90 is ergonomics - I'm a large guy and it just fits my hand perfect, which ensures good point and shoot in a pinch. Glocks not so much as they point low every time I hold one in my hand...

Another reason I like the Ruger is it also doubles as a tomahawk

 

[Dave Bennett]

Now I'm on the lookout for a nice, inexpensive Left-handed OWB holster.

Uncle Mikes :costumed-smiley-007

 

[CoastalDefender]

I liked my first Sig so much (P228), I sold all my pistols and just bought Sigs.

P228, P229, P226, P220, and my wife's P239 later, I am pleased to say I can't stand myself at how happy Sig has made me.

Now, I still have a Walther P22 and a S&W .357 (ankle BUG) to shoot and carry. There's probably more handguns in the mix, but I lost track of how many firearms I own a long time ago...

Uncle Mikes :costumed-smiley-007

Galco, Safariland.








Oh wait he said inexpensive. Uncle Mikes...

 

[tombodad]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tombodad
The coolest part? DA/SA. Only pistol in the world with second strike capability.




Actually, I think he may have left out that it may be the only semi-auto without an exposed hammer that is capable of multiple trigger pulls on a defective round.

I thought there was another "hammerless" semi auto that had such a capability as well but my mind fails me.

^^what he said. Mine is hammerless, but they make one with a hammer now, as well, that I think I would actually prefer.

I am not too sure why you would want to use a double strike feature..

If the round fails to fire the first time, what is going to make it go off the second time?

...just get that thing out of there.

According to Taurus (admittedly, they are obviously marketing their own product), 85% of the time, a FTF will fire with a second strike of the firing pin. They must have done some sort of test to claim this, but who knows how accurate it was. I like that you would be able to do this with one hand if needed, without taking the pistol off target.

...

Then there's the eternal question of target identificaion. Do I rig up a system that lights that part of the house from my position, or do I use a handheld flashlight, (either weapon-mounted or weakhand)

.... (best defense is a good offense, right?)

Cheers!

One of the best ideas I ever heard, and very affordable is nightlights. If you think about lighting in your home, think about two things:

1) You know the layout, you don't need much light to see in your home. A perp, on the other hand, will need light to navigate, forcing them to use a flashlight if its dark enough, giving away their position.

2) For home defense, target backlighting is best. For example, our bedroom is at the end of a hallway, the other end of which leads to the living room. I have a night light on the far wall, that I can see from the bedroom door all the way across the house (helps to not live in a mansion ). This way, any bad guy is backlit. You can see them, they can't see you. Win Win.

If you are going to be using it as a dedicated bedside gun I would recommend a weapon mounted light such as the streamlight TLR1 or the surefire X300 I have the tlr and my father in law has the x300. Either one will work just fine.

A weaponounted light gives you 2 advantages.
1. You can't lose your light by knocking it off your nightstand. It's attached to your weapon.
2. You can have your light on someone and they will never know you have a gun pointed at them.
(ie someone on your backyard you put your Light in their eyes, they think you just have a light, you have them totally covered. Incase they try anything stupid.)

You also can't do things very well like opening doors, dialing 911, flipping light switches, etc, with both hands full.

I can answer that one for you- The FN FortyNine came out well before the Taurus ...

Interesting. Never heard of that FN. Sounds like a very advanced firearm, for it's day.

Taurus does seem to be hit and miss, but I believe that it varies by model, not by each gun. I haven't heard of anyone having problems with a 24/7, and most of their revolvers are very good shooters. However, there are problems with the PT series, and one particuler .44 mag model, according to my local smith, is very "land-rover like"

Bottomline: Do your research, or stay away from the brand alltogether. When I found how well the 24/7 shoots for me, and that it has no reports of problems that I've ever heard (I've never had any either), I went for it:sombrero:

 

[robert]

"Interesting. Never heard of that FN. Sounds like a very advanced firearm, for it's day."

Not really, it's just another polymer framed striker fired pistol. The difference being it didn't have a mechanism to keep the striker "cocked" instead cycling it with each trigger pull. Fit and finish and the way it feels in the hand are all good, it jut needs an improved trigger.


I'll admit I wasn't sold on the idea of a pistol light- until I tried one. Once you do you'll realize how handy they are. My carry gun is generally a 1911, but the bedside gun is a Glock 19. My next handgun will probably be a Commander sized 1911 with a rail.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Galco, Safariland.


Oh wait he said inexpensive. Uncle Mikes...

I've seen some nice examples in the $40-50 range, which is what I consider inexpensive...BTW.

Good to know I have some choices!

thanks!

Oh, and I'm gettin' ever closer to paying off my rig. Holidays make it tough, what with shopping lists and such, but I should have it before the end of the year. :wings:

 

[juicebox]

I am surprised nobody mentioned the Stoeger Cougar 8000f. I am looking in to getting one of these and was hoping you guys knew some things about them. I wanted the ruger sr-9 until I held the Cougar. It feels awesome, I love my Ruger Mark II target model and my Ruger 10/22, and I wanted to like the sr9, it just didn't feel right.

I haven't heard anything bad about the Stoeger, and for under $400 I might get one... Tomorrow. (sale ends tomorrow.)

 

[109 Pretender]

Big daddy

Since you posted that your purchase is mainly for home defense AND you have 3 kids spread between bedrooms I'm going to ask you to listen very carefully to what I'm going to say. You don't have to agree with anything - but, please read and consider the following:

A .380 anything is only good for fun shooting - NEVER for home defense. Why? The ballistics on that round aren't good enough to kill a full grown human unless you hit the sweet spot on the 1st round - which you or I probably wouldn't - remember YOU just got woke up from a sound sleep and there's a lot of abnormal stuff going on in your house and it's all happening too fast and... get my drift here? Reaction time isn't good enough to be using a stupid little bullet like a .380 for home defense.

I feel pretty much the same about the 9mm... But, it's better than a .380!

Police psychologists say that the single most intimidating pistol to a crook is a s/s or chrome finish .45 1911 semi. Because it has a proven track record and will stop a full sized human if placed well at close range which is what it was designed to do.

But in your case I couldn't recommend ANY pistol. Why?
You have loved ones in different rooms of your house. Have you considered what could happen as you wake up and start popping off rounds in your home? Those bullets will go through sheetrock like paper - and may hit one of your kids. (Special purpose defense rounds will complicate your defense greatly so don't think that is the solution).

What you need sir is the number one all time most intimidating weapon available to most normal people - you need a 12 ga. shotgun! (Police will tell you this as well - it's the "safest" weapon to use in a home and most likely would not go through a wall and kill a family member if you had to use it).

I would recommend a Mossberg 500 w/tactical folding stock and I'd use small buckshot - not slugs (for the obvious reasons). This could be had in your general pricerange as well.

Oh! You also need to really consider how you are going to secure said weapon and how you will get it from its stored state to the ready fire position in about lets say, 3-4 seconds after you wake up - that's about all the time you'll have...

On second consideration, I would think the best home defense you'll ever have is a BIG loving dog - he'll give his life in an instant if it means keeping you and your family safe from crooks - and your kids can play with a dog anytime they want to safely - something that can never be said about a gun.

Good Luck!

 

[juicebox]

On second consideration, I would think the best home defense you'll ever have is a BIG loving dog - he'll give his life in an instant if it means keeping you and your family safe from crooks - and your kids can play with a dog anytime they want to safely - something that can never be said about a gun.

Yes! I think that too. I have a pretty intimidating looking pit-lab mix. Well, I think she looks sweet, but some people have told me she looks like a mean junkyard dog...

A dog and a shotgun is what I plan on for home defense. And the only reason I have a shotgun, (mossberg maverick 88, $125!) is because I really think that my dog would walk up to any intruder and expect to be showered with affection and treats.


But, I did get this today, $320 brand new from a store.

Not my pic, but I have the same gun. Stoeger (beretta) Cougar 9mm.

This ammo is usually 60$,

...But I got 5 boxes for $40 each. I was told by a guy who owns a pawn shop/FFL dealer, that normal gun dealer markup is about 10%. I got the gun for 20% off and the ammo for 30% off. So, the way I see it they took a 10-20% loss selling me this stuff.

I also got a bunch of .22 ammo for 20% off... and for buying all that, I got 5% gift certificate that I can use in 2011. So I can go get a huge bag of dog food for free. :wings:

 

[Metcalf]

My 2 cents.

If you haven't looked at the Smith and Wesson M&P do so before you buy. Its basically the ergonomics of the 1911 in a modern simple high capacity polymer pistol. Grip angle is spot on, and the interchangeable back straps are great for dialing into your hand size. Don't get the compact, just a normal full size 4.25" barrel version. If you HAVE to have .45 apc the midsize version they offer is near the perfect size.

I would recommend the 40 cal version. For about $200 down the road you can get a storm lake conversion barrel to shoot not only .357 sig with the same .40 mags, but you can also get a 9mm conversion barrel that will work with factory 9mm mags. You cannot do this type of conversion the other way, they do not make 40/357 barrels for the 9mm slide.

 

[Gooseberry]

My 3 cents on this.

I have a few side arms and the one I hated when I held it is the one I bought after shooting it. It felt like a part of me when shooting but did not feel right when just holding it.

It is a Glock M27 sub compact .40 and I have had the extended release and trigger done but I hit what I want with little thouight.


by the way the friend that gave me crap for getting the Glock now owns 3 for challanges.

Dont buy a gun by looks and fell SHOOT IT.

 

[Gooseberry]

I second this

When I leave home My wife has her 9 but other then that I Dont have kids at home anymore and that would be Snake shot to face or 12g

Big daddy

Since you posted that your purchase is mainly for home defense AND you have 3 kids spread between bedrooms I'm going to ask you to listen very carefully to what I'm going to say. You don't have to agree with anything - but, please read and consider the following:

A .380 anything is only good for fun shooting - NEVER for home defense. Why? The ballistics on that round aren't good enough to kill a full grown human unless you hit the sweet spot on the 1st round - which you or I probably wouldn't - remember YOU just got woke up from a sound sleep and there's a lot of abnormal stuff going on in your house and it's all happening too fast and... get my drift here? Reaction time isn't good enough to be using a stupid little bullet like a .380 for home defense.

I feel pretty much the same about the 9mm... But, it's better than a .380!

Police psychologists say that the single most intimidating pistol to a crook is a s/s or chrome finish .45 1911 semi. Because it has a proven track record and will stop a full sized human if placed well at close range which is what it was designed to do.

But in your case I couldn't recommend ANY pistol. Why?
You have loved ones in different rooms of your house. Have you considered what could happen as you wake up and start popping off rounds in your home? Those bullets will go through sheetrock like paper - and may hit one of your kids. (Special purpose defense rounds will complicate your defense greatly so don't think that is the solution).

What you need sir is the number one all time most intimidating weapon available to most normal people - you need a 12 ga. shotgun! (Police will tell you this as well - it's the "safest" weapon to use in a home and most likely would not go through a wall and kill a family member if you had to use it).

I would recommend a Mossberg 500 w/tactical folding stock and I'd use small buckshot - not slugs (for the obvious reasons). This could be had in your general pricerange as well.

Oh! You also need to really consider how you are going to secure said weapon and how you will get it from its stored state to the ready fire position in about lets say, 3-4 seconds after you wake up - that's about all the time you'll have...

On second consideration, I would think the best home defense you'll ever have is a BIG loving dog - he'll give his life in an instant if it means keeping you and your family safe from crooks - and your kids can play with a dog anytime they want to safely - something that can never be said about a gun.

Good Luck!

 

[Metcalf]

I gotta say it....

Please put some research into suggesting the 12 gauge shotgun for home defense. Can it work, sure. Is it the best choice, IMOO, no.

In most home defense situations you are in somewhat close quarters once you venture out from your safe area ( which by the way is generally a bad idea ). The shotgun is a long gun, and you need both hands to operate it along with a LOT more room. Unless your fairly highly trained in close quarters use with a long gun, it creates FAR more problems than it fixes. Just image trying to move some kiddies around with one hand and working a shotgun with your other hand. Bad idea.

If you think the shotgun, even with light bird shot, will not go through sheetrock walls your very misinformed. At home defense ranges even light bird shot will go through an interior wall EASILY. With something like 00 buck it gets even worse. Not only will it penetrate walls, you now have about nine projectiles to keep track of.

Most women and young adults will not be comfortable shooting a 12 gauge. Sure, it can be done, but its not the best idea. If you don't like to shoot it, you won't train with it, and you won't be any good with it.

Lastly. Even a dedicated home defense shotgun most likely only has 8-shots or less before your dry. Yes, 8-shots can create a lot of damage, but is that a good thing or a bad thing?

My standard suggestion for HOME defense is a high capacity 9mm pistol. Anyone can shoot and train with it. It can sit in a drawer close to the bed. You can add a compact light to most modern ones easily. It only takes one hand to operate if your trying to move your significant other or some kiddies to another part of the house. Its also very short and compact allowing you to move around your house easily.

Just food for thought.

I don't think shotguns are useless, but they require a LOT more constant training to make them effective.