The Lump: Long Distance Comfort in LHD

[utherjorge]

Use the "Disabilities Act" to modify your new vehicle, change the foot controls, bring the seat back, extend the steering shaft and you can get more foot room. And, by law, it won't void the warranty.

Legitimate question: does one have to be able to document a disability in order to do such a thing? Or, be modifying stuff for someone with a noted disability?

 

[zimm]

While that sounds simple, that kind of Engineering change, testing and validation is quickly tens of millions of dollars for an OEM.

It's why the 3.0 Ecodiesel is not sold in the Wrangler or Gladiator RHD markets - the turbo is in the way of the steering, and the cost to re-engineer it exceeds the revenue they'll make selling them.

-Dan

Except, calling this "re-engineering" is a bit of stretch with a brand spanking new vehicle. This is the primary drive train, not a low volume option. There really is no excuse for a brand new mass produced truck that stickers at 70g at its cheapest, to have a huge hump in the footwell. It was an oversight. Was it due to a skeleton staff of designers on a budget? Was it due to organizational issues with differing mangers not talking? Was it due to upper management interference?

My vote would go to either deciding on a drive train too late for proper fitting, or someone failed to look for interference, and the floor pan bump was the quickest fix to keep a schedule as it is an in house alteration, didn't involve outside suppliers (speed, not money).

And it's not the only OOPS that looks a lot like, "this is my first car, and I didn't think of that". Does it matter to many buyers? No, but the fact we are discussing means it actually IS an issue. It's real. It's not something new car buyers ever see in their spendy new purchase.

 

[Dan Grec]

Except, calling this "re-engineering" is a bit of stretch with a brand spanking new vehicle.

I meant in the sense of "re-engineering" the engine, if the turbo is in fact in the way.
When they buy the driveline from BMW it comes the way it comes, any change to that is going to cost tens of millions at a minimum.

This is the primary drive train, not a low volume option. There really is no excuse for a brand new mass produced truck that stickers at 70g at its cheapest, to have a huge hump in the footwell. It was an oversight. Was it due to a skeleton staff of designers on a budget? Was it due to organizational issues with differing mangers not talking? Was it due to upper management interference?

My vote would go to either deciding on a drive train too late for proper fitting, or someone failed to look for interference, and the floor pan bump was the quickest fix to keep a schedule as it is an in house alteration, didn't involve outside suppliers (speed, not money).

And it's not the only OOPS that looks a lot like, "this is my first car, and I didn't think of that". Does it matter to many buyers? No, but the fact we are discussing means it actually IS an issue. It's real. It's not something new car buyers ever see in their spendy new purchase.

There is absolutely 0 chance that this vehicle was not entirely designed to the nearest tenth of a millimetre in CAD, and that they didn't know about this for a long, long time.

All vehicles have been designed that way for well over a decade.

-Dan

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

Playing with old Discoverys in the JY and my wife's Bronco I figured the B pillar thing was something you put up with to brace off of when offroading lol. My Ranger being a truck isn't like that but it isn't really designed as an "offroad truck" from the get go either.

The thing on the floor, Ram trucks have had something similar on the right floor for quite awhile for PTO clearance. The last gen half tons and the current 2500+ have the bump (they use the same base cab) I have never had anyone come into work and complain about it... we played with a new Ram 2500 once at the state fair and my wife really did not like the intrusion. If it wasn't a new(er) truck it would be tempting to pull the carpet and reshape the floor with a sledge if I was to ever get a newer Ram since I have no intention of ever adding a PTO anything. It does feel like a van doghouse... which isn't really something I am going out of my way to look for in a truck.

 

[Sid Post]

I meant in the sense of "re-engineering" the engine, if the turbo is in fact in the way.
When they buy the driveline from BMW it comes the way it comes, any change to that is going to cost tens of millions at a minimum.

I have been told it isn't the turbo but, a catalytic converter and some structure in the way.

With modern emissions, you generally have more than one single catalytic converter buried in the back of the vehicle.

My Toyota Tundra had a dual catalytic converter system but, one was removed when I put long tube headers on it and faked the sensor input for it to the pickup ECU.

 

[Ozarker]

Legitimate question: does one have to be able to document a disability in order to do such a thing? Or, be modifying stuff for someone with a noted disability?

As to warranty, no, anyone can own a handicap accessible/modified vehicle, anyone could have one built. You could own a vehicle, modify it, keep it for your poor father to drive, drive it, use it and no issue. Just don't park in a handicap spot without a handicap passenger/driver with the proper tags/plaque.

 

[zimm]

I meant in the sense of "re-engineering" the engine, if the turbo is in fact in the way.
When they buy the driveline from BMW it comes the way it comes, any change to that is going to cost tens of millions at a minimum.


There is absolutely 0 chance that this vehicle was not entirely designed to the nearest tenth of a millimetre in CAD, and that they didn't know about this for a long, long time.

All vehicles have been designed that way for well over a decade.

-Dan

Once again, the mere fact something like this exists suggests otherwise. Having the floorpan be where your foot is supposed to be in the footwell is a fail, especially when we're not talking about something such never used third row seats, but instead the actual driver in a RHD truck. There is no logical excuse. If they ever make another model, do you think they keep that a quaint legacy, or do you think they will fix it? Do you think they will fix it, or keep it in the electric model? If it means nothing, they won't spend the money to touch it. And no one said it wasn't on cad, the issue being adding the drive train to the the design and noticing the interference. I can't even count the times I've been involved in an accelerated design build project where structural interference was not noticed until construction, and EVERYTHING was on CAD. "Only if" someone had looked, assumptions weren't made, last minute changes weren't made, etc etc etc, things would have been different. As a matter of fact... I can say without hesitation as someone that started with pencil and drafting board, I have see more goofy design mistakes and oversights with cad than without. "Meticulous" is dead. CAD does not fix or replace human design errors.

What there is, is 0 chance of this truck floor pan leaving the design phase three years ago, and the designers being aware they would need to factor in a massive hump in the right hand floor pan or they would have done something different.

 

[zimm]

I have been told it isn't the turbo but, a catalytic converter and some structure in the way.

With modern emissions, you generally have more than one single catalytic converter buried in the back of the vehicle.

My Toyota Tundra had a dual catalytic converter system but, one was removed when I put long tube headers on it and faked the sensor input for it to the pickup ECU.

That makes more sense than the turbo. Every new model gets a different exhaust, no matter the engine so that cost is baked right in to initial design... on the other hand, if no one allotted for its location and the subsequent heat shielding as they do run hot.... now we need a hump.

 

[zimm]

Playing with old Discoverys in the JY and my wife's Bronco I figured the B pillar thing was something you put up with to brace off of when offroading lol. My Ranger being a truck isn't like that but it isn't really designed as an "offroad truck" from the get go either.

The thing on the floor, Ram trucks have had something similar on the right floor for quite awhile for PTO clearance. The last gen half tons and the current 2500+ have the bump (they use the same base cab) I have never had anyone come into work and complain about it... we played with a new Ram 2500 once at the state fair and my wife really did not like the intrusion. If it wasn't a new(er) truck it would be tempting to pull the carpet and reshape the floor with a sledge if I was to ever get a newer Ram since I have no intention of ever adding a PTO anything. It does feel like a van doghouse... which isn't really something I am going out of my way to look for in a truck.

If you're in a RHD unit, there's no way to drive with your leg straight. Maybe someone of shorter stature can deal with it, but there no way I could do all day in the saddle with that pressure on my left butt from my leg being cocked. Due to windshield visibility limitations, I needed the seat all the way down to see traffic lights as it is and I'm only 6'4". As a passenger I was fine. I deliberately wore my biggest boots on the test drive to test pedal location and this hump. SheZimmis 5'6" and she said it was noticeable but as a passenger not an issue.

 

[utherjorge]

If you're in a RHD unit, there's no way to drive with your leg straight. Maybe someone of shorter stature can deal with it, but there no way I could do all day in the saddle with that pressure on my left butt from my leg being cocked. Due to windshield visibility limitations, I needed the seat all the way down to see traffic lights as it is and I'm only 6'4". As a passenger I was fine. I deliberately wore my biggest boots on the test drive to test pedal location and this hump. SheZimmis 5'6" and she said it was noticeable but as a passenger not an issue.

That's bananas.

Let's not forget the Audi 5 pedal worries from so many years ago. I cannot speak for them there down-under types. But that seems like it's realllllly close to the brakes...or is that the clutch with a pedal like that?