The most expensive overlander?!

[nick disjunkt]

every vehicle has it's compromises. The best thing is that it suits your needs and you are enjoy using it.

For me I would rather have a comfortable, modern and large motorhome because I plan on living in it for years and appreciate the benefits it gives. If it means it is unsuited for jungle tracks then either I don't go there or I find another way to get to them. For others an older, less comfortable and smaller vehicle is better suited because it has been their lifes ambition to travel to remote places in less developed parts of the world.

Any vehicle can be made to work to travel in.

 

[UK4X4]

My trucks better than your truck ...ne haanehehaaaaa

6 posts and all you have to offer is your trucks better than others

Dweb maybe more your scene.....

meanwhile back to the excessive size and luxery .....when you have lots of pennies to spend and your running out of off the shelf toy's better than your neigbour you have to look to custom


In the middle east the local ferrari- lambo and Bugatti stores have STOCK to sell, no waiting list arround here........

Went past a lambo yesterday parked in a side road covered in dust and still had plastic on the spoiler....just sat there- road did not even have tarmac and he could'nt be assed to even park it inside the house..

Big trucks - small trucks every ones a winner !

as long as its used to its fullest ability



yep big trucks just sink as soon as they get offroad..........please

mind you the tractor unit is 6X6 !

When I stopped to take the photo , I sunk my Nissan patrol and need sand boards to get going again.........size does not matter

 

[michaelvanpelt]

Landy States
You are welcome to drive around south america for a few years and see what vehicles are being used and where..i have and i have talked to many of the overlanders and what i posted about these machines is commonly accepted knowledge. There is nothing wrong with driving these machines, as there is nothing wrong with a 2CV, but there are very big compromises to be aware of that only experience will teach you. drive what you want, i will always help you when you need help. I am trying to help you right now with just a little feedback from the field, and i apologize if it isn't what you expected.

My Experience is different, I have traveled in South America for years, and as some of you know I took a 26 foot long Unimog all through South America. I agree the local populations drive small fuel-efficient vehicles. However the Overlanders do not. That is not to say that everyone drives big vehicles or that most drive big vehicles. The vehicle choices are as different as the vehicle owners and the type and style of trip that they are taking. People that are retired and are taking a year or more, often times, multiple years to see South America are driving the large vehicles. People that are driving the Pan Am route and do it within several months or less than a year are typically driving the small vehicles similar to the Defender. I would say this is very similar to the owners of motor homes in the United States. Retired full timers are typically driving larger motorhomes because they are living in them.

Oh, i forgot one other big compromise for the heavy MAN type vehicles: very limited contact with local population. These rigs are designed as metal armor bubbles to isolate the driver from the outside world and it works, only criminals feel it is ok to approach the vehicle. instead a small vehicle is open and easy for local to approach to talk to you.

I definitely disagree with this statement. This is written from a person that has not driven a large vehicle in South America and so does not have this experience to draw from. Very few times unless we were in an isolated area did we wake up without people outside wanting to talk to us. We had some of the most wonderful experiences because people were curious about our vehicle and about the type of trip that we were taking.

People that could hardly afford to buy us lunch wanted us to park in front of their house and meet their family and friends. Others such as the comptroller of the Brazilian currency insisted that we stay in a guest room within their home and meet their family and friends. Meetings like this happened on a daily basis in every country we were in. We were treated wonderfully by everyone we came in contact with.

Many times we would come up to a border crossing or police check to see a defender or G. wagon already there as well as dozens of other cars. We would get out, show our papers post for some photographs, allow the person in charge to also have his photograph taken with his man on or around the vehicle and we would be on our way before the other cars that were there before us were even done unloading everything they were making them unload so that the vehicles could be checked. For a brief period of time we traveled with a small group of other expedition vehicles. During this time we were unapproachable. People do not want to approach a large group of vehicles but do want to approach the individual vehicle.

In fairness our vehicle looked unique and interesting and this is why we receive the attention and friendliness that we received. Our expedition vehicle was not ostentatious but interesting. The size of this vehicle made it very easy to maneuver and to go places that other vehicles would not go. So if I was driving north to south just to say I did it I would take a small vehicle. If I was exploring and enjoying the countries I would take a larger more comfortable vehicle.

 

[howell_jd]

A Belated Welcome! Best Foot Forward (avoid the mouth)!

Oh, i forgot one other big compromise for the heavy MAN type vehicles: very limited contact with local population. These rigs are designed as metal armor bubbles to isolate the driver from the outside world and it works, only criminals feel it is ok to approach the vehicle. instead a small vehicle is open and easy for local to approach to talk to you.

...uh...perhaps reflection upon your own armored comments is more appropriate to your position of (un)approachability and (perhaps impending) limited contact and isolation...

I'm going to backtrack for a moment here so bear with me.

Welcome to the Portal! Glad to see a new member - the community always benefits from the addition of stories from veteran experiences or vigor that accompanies a newly inspired explorer.

You may enjoy investigating a number of the threads from members who have explored their personal corner of the globe extensively or from those who have even circumnavigated the globe - some have made their trips lavishly equipped while others have demonstrated how thrift and can-do attitude stretch a journey beyond miles into smiles! Expedition Portal has it all for those who enjoy the trip as much as the destination.

There are threads for powered travel of all sorts - whether driven by an MRE and adrenaline fed, air-breathing, liquid-cooled engine or a modern, electronic, zero-emissions electric motor or something in-between - you will certainly find excitement and interesting topics of discussion.

Sharing your own travel experiences is highly encouraged - especially with photos! The whole spectrum of capability and skill is represented here so nurture the flame of novice interest with encouragement and freely share your own experiences of pitfalls. There are classic tent campers and exquisite trailer caravan units, there are some classic overlanding wheeled vehicles from the turn of the LAST century to modern trucks seemingly requiring advanced degrees to operate - but all include folks who love the outdoors and sharing their experience with friends along the way whether on the 'Portal here or on the road less travelled where they make new and interesting friends.

This may not be an "official" welcome but feel welcome indeed. Grab a donut and a coffee and enjoy; leave the gray skies behind.

Jonathan

 

[dzzz]

Not a wide Land Rover......ONLY A DEFENDER.
Thank goodness finally a definitive answer. The rest of you are so wishy washy about vehicle choice.
Now we need to be told where to sleep. I hope it's not in the back seat with my feet sticking out the window.

 

[MNDodge]

Hard packed sand dunes??? That's a new one to me..

Anyway, what in the world did you hope to accomplish by coming on here and pretty much saying anyone who thinks a large vehicle is good for an expedition or overlanding trip is an idiot??? I do not own a MAN KAT, Unimog or anything similar, and will probably never have the money to own one unless I win the lottery, and since I never play the lottery...... But I do see the usefulness in them and would love to have one.

Maybe try being a little more open-minded, instead of thinking your way is the best and only intelligent way and everyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot...

 

[LukeH]

Oh dear we've all risen to the bait...

Now I thought this thread was about truck porn so we could all look at the “most expensive overlander”
Whether it’s a Ferrari, Unicat or 2CV we can look at them and admire the work that’s gone into them without necessarily wanting them.
We are free to decide what WE want and justify OUR OWN decisions however we fancy. It’s when imposing our decisions on others that we upset people (see global history for repeated references – we never learn)
The whole “it’s too big” and “contact with population” etc. handed down like this without even a IMHO anywere to be seen is old hat, has been popping up in off road fora around the world and is pure provocation.

I bet the owner of the MAN got to where he wanted to go. I bet he had a whale of a time exploring alternative routes on the quad he was carrying with him.
I bet he muttered a few words about you when he found the tunnel, and then got on with his life.
I bet he’s in a financial situation at this stage in his life where he no longer has time constraints so the time it took to find an alternative route was all part of his adventure.
For all we know, he may even have opened up his satellite connection and looked closely at Google Maps to find alternative pistes.
He may have set up camp and made some fantastic friends next to the tunnel opening because someone didn’t warn him about the restriction.

Lucky the defender didn’t have wheel wideners.

As for traction, off-road ability etc. maybe the reason our provocateur has only met the big units on the road is because the defender is too small to take on the big stuff off road. (that’s me deliberately provoking there ;-)
My 14 tonne truck (empty weight 8 tonnes) on old 365/85/20 XZLs climbed a 1 in 4 fresh snowy slope that left a modern Pajero with traction control and dedicated snow tyres spinning at the bottom.
To say they’re rubbish off-road in such a categorical way implies extensive personal driving experience in big trucks. Otherwise a contributor is better saying something like “I wouldn’t like to take one off road”.
However I don’t think the Dakar is the best illustration, as the speed and power of those rigs accounts for a lot of the obstacles that they get through; and I for one wouldn’t dare go that fast and probably can’t afford that much power.
IMHO much better illustrations can be found by here: http://www.fuess-mobile.de/Video.htm
Gutless 170 hp engines, really soft sand, 10 tonne trucks. There’s one 1924 in there, see if you can spot the 240hp engine.
They seem to get by.
So much of off road ability depends on other factors than the absolute definitive ability of the truck itself, that, again, “crap off road” is too big a call.
Here’s one: he sinks because of a slow gear change [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMUmrivxi44"]YouTube - TATRA MAROC 2010_0001.wmv[/ame] , lovely 6x6 with 500hp, inexperienced driver, very slow gear changes. (he’s trying to sell me that truck at the moment – SOOOO tempting)

Whatever; after typing that I realise that I have also risen to the provocation.
D’oh!

 

[landy89]

Thanks for the welcome Jonathan. This forum doesn't seem to have many actual overlanders on it, so i do appreciate the welcome.

here is a little video of some heavy machines on actual roads in Russia. There are two machines. If it had been only one machine, it would still be there.
click here . The type of road conditions in this video is generally what one can expect when traveling off pavement when doing expedition in asia, africa, or south america. Of course with the wonderful bonus of there being no one around to help you with a machine or equipment big enough. Show the video to your spouse and see what she thinks about spending a month or more waiting in a insect infested mud hole to get your toy pulled out.

I have spent years traveling in very extreme locations and i know that with a heavy vehicle i would never have been able to see or go to many of the places i have. For example: 3 months inside the world's largest swamp is not possible with a heavy vehicle ;and that is why i have been fortunate enough to be 5 meters from a jaguar.

 

[dwh]

here is a little video of some heavy machines on actual roads in Russia. There are two machines. If it had been only one machine, it would still be there.

That's a rather silly assumption. If they had a shovel and were willing to dig, eventually they wouldn't be there - solo or not. I see plenty of wood in the background of that video. With wood you can rig all sorts of things, anchor points, lifting tackle, winches, or even build a road if need be.

And I've seen plenty of Jeep/Cruiser/Land Rover sized vehicles stuck in the mud. Has that never happened to you? So you've pulled out those sinfully heavy Cruisers - but have never been pulled out yourself? Defenders just don't GET stuck eh?

If you've got another vehicle to help pull you out, then you use it. If you don't, then you dig. Often, as seen in the video, you do both.

I have spent years traveling in very extreme locations and i know that with a heavy vehicle i would never have been able to see or go to many of the places i have. For example: 3 months inside the world's largest swamp is not possible with a heavy vehicle ;and that is why i have been fortunate enough to be 5 meters from a jaguar.

And here is where your logic breaks down, and you either fail to see it, or deliberately ignore it. By your logic:

MAN is less than Mog
Mog < Defender

That's fine as far as it goes, but that's where you stop - let's take it the rest of the way:

Defender < 1200 motorbike
1200 motorbike < 600 motorbike
600 motorbike < 250 motorbike
250 motorbike < mountain bicycle
mountain bicycle < backpack and boots
backpack and boots < loincloth
loincloth < butt naked

Thus by following your logic, we see that the greatest is butt naked.

(Especially for swamps. So you've been 5 feet from a jaguar - there are plenty of loinclothed or butt naked tribesman who've been even closer than that. The difference is mindset; you were prepared to look at a jaguar, the tribemen were prepared to EAT a jaguar.)

A bit facetious I know. So let's just sum it up this way:

By your own logic, anything smaller than a Defender is superior to a big fat heavy defender. Smaller is better. Less is more.

And you may well be right. Motorcyclists use the same argument that you used about contact with the locals. They feel that riding a motorcycle puts them in more intimate contact with the locals than driving around inside of a steel box (of any size).

So again, using YOUR OWN ARGUMENT - your Defender is a poor choice of vehicle.


So how about this...you stop trying to convince us that your choice is the best choice, and just accept the fact that you've made as many or more compromises with your choice of vehicle as someone who drives a different vehicle.


And one last thing. You might try asking if someone's spouse would prefer being stuck for a month and having a toilet over having to crap in the bushes every single day of the whole bloody trip.

 

[LukeH]

This forum doesn't seem to have many actual overlanders on it, so i do appreciate the welcome.

ROFLMAO!!!
The tone of the welcome got me smiling; that was just hilarious!



Judging by the depth of the mud in those holes IMHO a defender would also have needed a pull from the MOG.

Dunno how much of that getting stuck in that particular vid is down to tyre choice and how much is ground clearance.

Drive your defender through this then!
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZdsCVf6iGo"]YouTube - On the way in Russia - ?? ???? ? ?????? - Unterwegs in Russland[/ame]

i have been fortunate enough to be 5 meters from a jaguar.

If it was a concours level original D-type you were quite lucky, the E-types's cool, the S and 40 don't count (british Leyland years).
:bike_rider:

 

[LukeH]

And one last thing. You might try asking if someone's spouse would prefer being stuck for a month and having a toilet over having to crap in the bushes every single day of the whole bloody trip.

Often with an audience (friends had this problem in Africa, we had a camper)

 

[charlieaarons]

Welcome also to this forum.
I am overlanding in a heavy vehicle - a 12 ton Unimog U500/Unicat. We have been badly stuck in a non dry lake bed in Baja for about 2.75 days. It took 2 Mexican Army Hummers to help us out.
Yes there are places we cannot go - trails with low overhanging trees, dirt roads marked "4.5 ton limit" in the highly unusual rain here in Central Australia.
But being old fogies my wife wouldn't travel without a toilet, shower, fixed bed, kitchenette, etc. We have been to some pretty remote places. We were stopped 300m short of the end of the road to Cape York by an overhanging tree branch. I now have a pole saw.
Just a bit of friendly advice:there does seem to be some bitterness/"politics of envy" in your posts. Most people with big heavy expensive vehicles don't buy them without working thru the Landrover/Landcruiser stage, then the F350/camper stage, etc. and we know well the limitations of a big heavy vehicle.
Life is full of compromises.

Charlie

 

[landy89]

Hi Charlie. Thanks for the welcome. Sorry if you detect bitterness in my posts - there is none in my mind for sure. It sounds like you are very well aware of the limits of these heavy machines. I was only hoping to help some other folks avoid disappointment when they found out after the purchase that their heavy machine did not meet the marketing.

As for the rest of this interesting collection of responses; all straw man arguments, but interesting psychologically nonetheless.

Just so no future reader gets trapped in the mountains of nonsense in this thread, i will try to put my point a bit more clearly once again: If you make an solo expedition with a heavy vehicle, you will inevitably discover that the weight and size of the vehicle precludes you from doing the "off road" adventure you previously thought it might allow. In fact you might as well have brought a luxurious 2WD motorhome instead as you will be driving on terrain that is suitable for it anyways.

Of course the lighter the method of transport, the more mobile you will be in these 'off road' condition, but you will probably wish for some compromise of comfort vs. ability. Of course a 4x4 SUV is not as light as walking, but when fitted properly it can provided ALL of the creature comforts of a MAN or similar - Without the weight problem.

There are four heavy vehicles that i know of which are right now stuck in four separate unattractive locations. Two are stuck due to excessive weight and are waiting for heavy machinery to help them. I drove past these two units at different times without any issues of getting stuck myself. The other two are waiting for specialized parts to be sent from Germany (they have only been waiting 2 months so far). Naturally the owners of the second two units do not speak the local language at all and are unable to get the parts through 'customs'.

I do not claim that travel on pavement is worse or better than off pavement travel. I am only stating that if you desire real off pavement travel, then you need to be light. And yes a motorcycle is better than a SUV for this, but it brings a very large number of compromises regarding comfort.

And one last thing. You might try asking if someone's spouse would prefer being stuck for a month and having a toilet over having to crap in the bushes every single day of the whole bloody trip.

I have a toilet in my vehicle. And a hot shower, and a stove, and a sink, and outdoor and indoor sleeping... Bigger is definitely not better in the overland game, smarter is better.

 

[dzzz]

single petroleum industry worker.

 

[dwh]

As for the rest of this interesting collection of responses; all straw man arguments, but interesting psychologically nonetheless.

Translation: "I'll just imply that I understand these fools minds better than they do, since I can't actually refute anything they've said. This will confound them and make me look mysterious and all-knowing."

Sorry milord, that might have worked on the wogs a hundred years ago, but it's not awe-inspiring these days.

Just so no future reader gets trapped in the mountains of nonsense in this thread

Actually, this thread WAS mostly a lark until you came along and attempted to turn into a big vs. small pissing contest.

I should probably say, "yet another big vs. small pissing contest", since no doubt it has been argued here many times before.

i will try to put my point a bit more clearly once again: If you make an solo expedition with a heavy vehicle, you will inevitably discover that the weight and size of the vehicle precludes you from doing the "off road" adventure you previously thought it might allow

For SOME. For others, who know what they are doing and are quite aware the the limitations, your comments are simply an insulting attempt at self-aggrandizement.

Of course the lighter the method of transport, the more mobile you will be in these 'off road' condition, but you will probably wish for some compromise of comfort vs. ability. Of course a 4x4 SUV is not as light as walking, but when fitted properly it can provided ALL of the creature comforts of a MAN or similar - Without the weight problem.

That's a patently ridiculous statement. What is true is that it can -approximate- the comfort of a larger vehicle. It certainly CANNOT "provide all the creature comforts of a MAN or similar".

Well, I suppose it could if you were in possession of one of Heinlein's four dimensional carryalls. But you aren't.

There are four heavy vehicles that i know of which are right now stuck in four separate unattractive locations. Two are stuck due to excessive weight and are waiting for heavy machinery to help them. I drove past these two units at different times without any issues of getting stuck myself. The other two are waiting for specialized parts to be sent from Germany (they have only been waiting 2 months so far). Naturally the owners of the second two units do not speak the local language at all and are unable to get the parts through 'customs'.

And this never happens to lighter vehicles? You know of no one driving a lighter vehicle which is stuck or waiting for imported parts?

Are we to believe that simply because you are unaware of any, that they do not exist?

And yes a motorcycle is better than a SUV for this, but it brings a very large number of compromises regarding comfort.

But of course, YOUR choices represent no compromise at all.

I have a toilet in my vehicle. And a hot shower, and a stove, and a sink, and outdoor and indoor sleeping...

In, or with? You shower INSIDE of your Land Rover? Next to a radiator which not only heats the room but also makes your towels toasty warm?

Bigger is definitely not better in the overland game, smarter is better.

And once again, the implication that you are smarter and your choices represent the "best" choices. Which is an insult whether or not you acknowledge (or are even aware of) it.

Obviously, YOU assume you are smarter. I however, remain unconvinced.