The overland beater: Dodge 1500
- Thread starter kraven
- Start date
drewactual
Adventurer
as far as geometry is concerned- some H&S 1.7:1 roller rockers make it easy... get a crane adjustable push rod with it and make your measurements before you buy... the sit on supplied pedestals and require no lash adjustment... yeah, they're $300 or so, but the juice is worth the squeeze with a certainty... the lifters are another story... the ones with the little bow tie port (mopar performance) are mucho better than the OE, which like to collapse...
and another unrelated thing.... or two...
for certain ditch the trans check valve. five minute job- release the quick connect on both ends, drill out the plastic check ball and spring will follow it, blow it out very well with compressed air... that little check ball is the most terrible design on the truck and has caused more than one 46fre to burn up the bands and varnish the hard parts. install an aux trans filter there if you like- it's a good place and highly worth it because of the bands in that design that like to sluff, and it acts as a check in the place of the now missing ball- which isn't required, but good to have.
ditch the clutch fan and install an efan.. use the temp probe kind and push it through the radiator where your IR heat gun tells you it's 190*, which was about 10" or so from the bottom on mine. I used twin (one pushing, one pulling) 2750cfm fans on mine, and I pushed the crap out of that truck crawling (where air flow is limited) and NEVER had a hot issue again... that clutch fan is a major parasite, and when it engages- you can really feel it. that, and the little fluid coupler in it likes to malfunction.
good luck!!
and another unrelated thing.... or two...
for certain ditch the trans check valve. five minute job- release the quick connect on both ends, drill out the plastic check ball and spring will follow it, blow it out very well with compressed air... that little check ball is the most terrible design on the truck and has caused more than one 46fre to burn up the bands and varnish the hard parts. install an aux trans filter there if you like- it's a good place and highly worth it because of the bands in that design that like to sluff, and it acts as a check in the place of the now missing ball- which isn't required, but good to have.
ditch the clutch fan and install an efan.. use the temp probe kind and push it through the radiator where your IR heat gun tells you it's 190*, which was about 10" or so from the bottom on mine. I used twin (one pushing, one pulling) 2750cfm fans on mine, and I pushed the crap out of that truck crawling (where air flow is limited) and NEVER had a hot issue again... that clutch fan is a major parasite, and when it engages- you can really feel it. that, and the little fluid coupler in it likes to malfunction.
good luck!!
kraven
Hegelian Scum
I agree with you on all that stuff, Drew.
Unfortunately, the 1.7 rockers just aren't in the budget. One of the things I'm really dreading is the trans going bad. I want to side step that by drilling out the check valve and maybe pre-emptively installing the later/better solenoids, adjusting stuff, making sure the cooler is clean, and whatnot. But I'm pretty reticent to blow money on go fast parts and not have enough budget to get a good trans if I need it. I can get one for about a grand off eBay, but I want to make sure I don't over run my budget for this project. Ideally, once I get it running and driving again, I'll get a core and rebuild that myself, keeping it around and ready or just going ahead and installing it so I can have a 0 miles transmission in the truck.
The general idea here is to get it to plod along for another 50-100k miles and have some fun with it, go in the snow, and travel to new and exciting places, drink beer around campfires, and meet new and exciting folk.
But when it goes down the road either to a junkyard or someone else's house, I'm totally keeping these heads.
The problem is that I like building hot rods and I can easily be talked into all that stuff. So, I have to adhere to this budget for my own good, because I am wily and have all kinds of excuses for why I should spend more money.
Unfortunately, the 1.7 rockers just aren't in the budget. One of the things I'm really dreading is the trans going bad. I want to side step that by drilling out the check valve and maybe pre-emptively installing the later/better solenoids, adjusting stuff, making sure the cooler is clean, and whatnot. But I'm pretty reticent to blow money on go fast parts and not have enough budget to get a good trans if I need it. I can get one for about a grand off eBay, but I want to make sure I don't over run my budget for this project. Ideally, once I get it running and driving again, I'll get a core and rebuild that myself, keeping it around and ready or just going ahead and installing it so I can have a 0 miles transmission in the truck.
The general idea here is to get it to plod along for another 50-100k miles and have some fun with it, go in the snow, and travel to new and exciting places, drink beer around campfires, and meet new and exciting folk.
But when it goes down the road either to a junkyard or someone else's house, I'm totally keeping these heads.
The problem is that I like building hot rods and I can easily be talked into all that stuff. So, I have to adhere to this budget for my own good, because I am wily and have all kinds of excuses for why I should spend more money.
drewactual
Adventurer
i hear ya... but... but....
seriously... the H&S roller rockers help with throttle response, but I hesitate to tell you you'll notice anything with them except lower oil temperatures. i think that whole higher ratio thing is overplayed with all the marketing around them... the one thing that they do accomplish, and this is specific to that mopar small block and heads intended for them- timing and tuning the valve lash is removed altogether... toss the guides, and use the H&S, and the little pedestals that sit atop the bosses and the poly lock that goes all the way through them into the bosses totally eliminate the need to adjust lash. caveat- the pushers gotta be spot on.
the OE lifters SUCK... they'll collapse if you look at them wrong... the mopar performance ones are a lot tougher... it's gotta do with the port...
I tell you this not concerned about performance, but reliability... I hate having to do the same job over... and over...
the efan does have a bit of a performance gain, but it friggin' ROCKS for keepin it cool at high rpm and slow rolling... they like to get hot sometimes...
that is one of the most reliable engines made... address the plenum gasket issue is addressed.
seriously... the H&S roller rockers help with throttle response, but I hesitate to tell you you'll notice anything with them except lower oil temperatures. i think that whole higher ratio thing is overplayed with all the marketing around them... the one thing that they do accomplish, and this is specific to that mopar small block and heads intended for them- timing and tuning the valve lash is removed altogether... toss the guides, and use the H&S, and the little pedestals that sit atop the bosses and the poly lock that goes all the way through them into the bosses totally eliminate the need to adjust lash. caveat- the pushers gotta be spot on.
the OE lifters SUCK... they'll collapse if you look at them wrong... the mopar performance ones are a lot tougher... it's gotta do with the port...
I tell you this not concerned about performance, but reliability... I hate having to do the same job over... and over...
the efan does have a bit of a performance gain, but it friggin' ROCKS for keepin it cool at high rpm and slow rolling... they like to get hot sometimes...
that is one of the most reliable engines made... address the plenum gasket issue is addressed.
justcuz
Explorer
I read a couple sites said the plenum with the stock tin will act up repeatedly and recommend the aluminum plate.
Do the short bolts really fix it or is the heavier plate needed?
Also the kegger intake mods are all over the map! I can't see how shortening those intake runners in a truck would be of any benefit at all. Cleaning up the casting to smooth the flow a bit I can see, but even cutting the divider under the throttle body seems like a bottom end killer.
Some nice articles about engine build ups on LA engines. They have some serious potential.
Do the short bolts really fix it or is the heavier plate needed?
Also the kegger intake mods are all over the map! I can't see how shortening those intake runners in a truck would be of any benefit at all. Cleaning up the casting to smooth the flow a bit I can see, but even cutting the divider under the throttle body seems like a bottom end killer.
Some nice articles about engine build ups on LA engines. They have some serious potential.
drewactual
Adventurer
Dissimilar metals.. short bolts... Bad gasket design... Doesn't matter because the plenum design sucks... F1 OR M1 solves the issue altogether and final. The Hughes kit works, but doesn't do anything for performance, and regardless of what you hear the Hughes kit fails too... Just not as often...
My short list of worthwhile mods is:
Gears... 4.56:1 respond very well.
Efan... Easy, and no more heat issues...
Check ball removed... intro external trans filter...
F1 or M1 intake.
Transfer case saver
Hotter 50ish kvdc coil + iridium plugs gapped at 057
My short list of worthwhile mods is:
Gears... 4.56:1 respond very well.
Efan... Easy, and no more heat issues...
Check ball removed... intro external trans filter...
F1 or M1 intake.
Transfer case saver
Hotter 50ish kvdc coil + iridium plugs gapped at 057
drewactual
Adventurer
if you're running stock temperature coil (35k vdc) you'll want to stick to either champion or autolite, but definitely copper... running iridium or any other fancy metals is begging for predetonation... it is a certainty... however, if you jump the coil temperature to 50k+ vdc such as with an MSD, you'll squeeze a pony or two by running iridium and spacing out the gap to .057 from .045... fatter spark= better burn. it is especially helpful in high altitude... you can do the same w/ copper (widen gap), but the voltage will work those metals over quickly.... also, pay attention to installing plugs- they like to be indexed toward the bowl.
the keg can be modified- but i don't buy into cutting the runners.. I DO buy into uniforming the runners, and losing the jagged edges... I've modded no less than four- the first one being a pre-98, and with a center divider... I cut one WAY back, cut the second one back to the shortest one, and a third I cut back to match the other shortest and worked the edges over until smooth. the issue is that dodge did a really crappy job with uniformity, and some of those runners look like they were snapped or pried off the mold. just get them uniform and get them smooth.
i doubt very seriously an intake manifold will fail you in Cali, especially a manifold with all the provisions- but, it's a $600 chance to take. the issue with the plenum is the cascade- oil in manifold is sucked into the chamber, and it has it's way with seats and valves. it then spits into the catalytic converter, where it wrecks them in no time flat. the vacuum loss is another story, which does just that- cuts into performance, but not so much that applying more pedal won't correct- which cuts into economy and makes you run richer perpetually. when you remove the keg, take special care to get the mating surface clean. send a bolt home/seated, and see how much bolt head extends past seat... you'll want them cut/ground back to where they sit flush w/o the pan on it. use a felpro gasket, not some cheap crap. if you're REALLY interested in a fix, buy remflex gasket material and cut your own gasket. use a FINE bead of black RTV, and let it cure for about 20 minutes before you put the gasket and pan on... tq them down according to spec, and don't hesitate to use thread locker such as blue or red. red is a one time shot, though... the heat required to loosen the bolts afterward will wreck your felpro or remflex. just take your time and be careful. the OE pan will work just fine, by the way. if you're dead set on it get the hughes plate or cut your own.
I've never had an engine respond to seafoam like those magnums... BUT NOT IN THE OIL OF FUEL... through a vacuum port and slowly... do this until the bottle is gone and not so fast as you kill the engine.. use the whole damn bottle... once it's ingested, kill the engine and let it sit for no less than half an hour... plug the vacuum line (I often used the brake booster) and fire her back up and watch the hollywood smoke machine... that smoke is the body of demons leaving your engine. once that little show is over, it's a good time to change the plugs like we talked about. use good wires, and route them strictly according to specs... they like to crossfire otherwise.
okay.... if you've read this far- here IS some magic for those engines... four hole ford motor sports injectors... 19~21# for a 318, 21~23# for a 360. here comes the magic: retard your fuel sync to -4*... well, -4 was the sweet spot for me... i've seen it range from -2 to -5, but your throttle response will increase along with your economy. mother mopar, either by accident or by someone REALLY thinking ahead (you can guess which I think to be true) decided it was a good idea to spray fuel (with those pencil pattern OE injectors) the back of a hot valve to better atomize the fuel, as well as to cool and keep clean the back of the valves... works great with the pencil (likely seimens 'red') injectors. but- if you bump to the four hole sprayers you don't need that valve, which means the injection can delay a degree or two (or four, as it was with mine)- and less duration (duty cycle) is required... but you still need the volume, which is why you'll need the heavier injectors... same volume, quicker duty cycle (time the injector is open)... dig it? you'll need a snap on tool to address the fuel sync, and you twist the dizzy to adjust it (similar to the way timing was set on pre-PCM rigs)...
I increased economy by more than 1mpg in town, and nearing three on the open road (but those 4.56:1 gears had a lot to do with both- counter intuitive it may be, but the lower gears in that rig will help your mileage... less load at any given rpm range and far less transmission gear hunting on deviating terrain)... the fuel sync is one of the hidden mod's folks who haven't spent a lot of time with that engine miss.
I also rec either a double chain on that cam/crank, or a gearset. the gearset is loud, but it flat out does NOT jump. the oe chain is crap, and anything with nylon bushings to quiet it down will only be dead nuts accurate for maybe 10k miles... use a croyles double roller, or spring for a gearset and dump the chain forever.... the wedge of that particular block means you gotta use a long chain- and the longer that space between cam and crank, the more the chance it jumps timing... the gearset eliminates that little issue...
get a monitor.. I rec torquey from the android market- it's free... the premium gives you no added function with those engines... then, get an ELM blutooth dongle from amazon for $20... monitor your fuel trim... you'll want to see it cross zero on both the short term fuel trim and the long term fuel trim... if you're having issues getting that, get an SCT from Sean (hemifever) and have him draft you a tune to control the duty cycle... there is something of vital importance to know here, that took me a while to figure out (yeah, I'll admit it)- the PCM is telling you how it's reacting... so, a negative fuel trim is the PCM pulling fuel to address a RICH circumstance, where a positive fuel trim (they are expressed in percentages) is telling you the PCM is adding fuel to address a LEAN circumstance... torquey reports lambda from your pre cat p2 sensors, and those lambda counts are what Sean is going to want to know... if you can't provide those, the use the tracking function on torquey and log the STFT and LTFT and send them to him along with the load (vacuum) and RPM's during the trim events. he'll dial you right in.
i've wrote a friggin' book... I'm out... I'm going to take this to a publisher...
the keg can be modified- but i don't buy into cutting the runners.. I DO buy into uniforming the runners, and losing the jagged edges... I've modded no less than four- the first one being a pre-98, and with a center divider... I cut one WAY back, cut the second one back to the shortest one, and a third I cut back to match the other shortest and worked the edges over until smooth. the issue is that dodge did a really crappy job with uniformity, and some of those runners look like they were snapped or pried off the mold. just get them uniform and get them smooth.
i doubt very seriously an intake manifold will fail you in Cali, especially a manifold with all the provisions- but, it's a $600 chance to take. the issue with the plenum is the cascade- oil in manifold is sucked into the chamber, and it has it's way with seats and valves. it then spits into the catalytic converter, where it wrecks them in no time flat. the vacuum loss is another story, which does just that- cuts into performance, but not so much that applying more pedal won't correct- which cuts into economy and makes you run richer perpetually. when you remove the keg, take special care to get the mating surface clean. send a bolt home/seated, and see how much bolt head extends past seat... you'll want them cut/ground back to where they sit flush w/o the pan on it. use a felpro gasket, not some cheap crap. if you're REALLY interested in a fix, buy remflex gasket material and cut your own gasket. use a FINE bead of black RTV, and let it cure for about 20 minutes before you put the gasket and pan on... tq them down according to spec, and don't hesitate to use thread locker such as blue or red. red is a one time shot, though... the heat required to loosen the bolts afterward will wreck your felpro or remflex. just take your time and be careful. the OE pan will work just fine, by the way. if you're dead set on it get the hughes plate or cut your own.
I've never had an engine respond to seafoam like those magnums... BUT NOT IN THE OIL OF FUEL... through a vacuum port and slowly... do this until the bottle is gone and not so fast as you kill the engine.. use the whole damn bottle... once it's ingested, kill the engine and let it sit for no less than half an hour... plug the vacuum line (I often used the brake booster) and fire her back up and watch the hollywood smoke machine... that smoke is the body of demons leaving your engine. once that little show is over, it's a good time to change the plugs like we talked about. use good wires, and route them strictly according to specs... they like to crossfire otherwise.
okay.... if you've read this far- here IS some magic for those engines... four hole ford motor sports injectors... 19~21# for a 318, 21~23# for a 360. here comes the magic: retard your fuel sync to -4*... well, -4 was the sweet spot for me... i've seen it range from -2 to -5, but your throttle response will increase along with your economy. mother mopar, either by accident or by someone REALLY thinking ahead (you can guess which I think to be true) decided it was a good idea to spray fuel (with those pencil pattern OE injectors) the back of a hot valve to better atomize the fuel, as well as to cool and keep clean the back of the valves... works great with the pencil (likely seimens 'red') injectors. but- if you bump to the four hole sprayers you don't need that valve, which means the injection can delay a degree or two (or four, as it was with mine)- and less duration (duty cycle) is required... but you still need the volume, which is why you'll need the heavier injectors... same volume, quicker duty cycle (time the injector is open)... dig it? you'll need a snap on tool to address the fuel sync, and you twist the dizzy to adjust it (similar to the way timing was set on pre-PCM rigs)...
I increased economy by more than 1mpg in town, and nearing three on the open road (but those 4.56:1 gears had a lot to do with both- counter intuitive it may be, but the lower gears in that rig will help your mileage... less load at any given rpm range and far less transmission gear hunting on deviating terrain)... the fuel sync is one of the hidden mod's folks who haven't spent a lot of time with that engine miss.
I also rec either a double chain on that cam/crank, or a gearset. the gearset is loud, but it flat out does NOT jump. the oe chain is crap, and anything with nylon bushings to quiet it down will only be dead nuts accurate for maybe 10k miles... use a croyles double roller, or spring for a gearset and dump the chain forever.... the wedge of that particular block means you gotta use a long chain- and the longer that space between cam and crank, the more the chance it jumps timing... the gearset eliminates that little issue...
get a monitor.. I rec torquey from the android market- it's free... the premium gives you no added function with those engines... then, get an ELM blutooth dongle from amazon for $20... monitor your fuel trim... you'll want to see it cross zero on both the short term fuel trim and the long term fuel trim... if you're having issues getting that, get an SCT from Sean (hemifever) and have him draft you a tune to control the duty cycle... there is something of vital importance to know here, that took me a while to figure out (yeah, I'll admit it)- the PCM is telling you how it's reacting... so, a negative fuel trim is the PCM pulling fuel to address a RICH circumstance, where a positive fuel trim (they are expressed in percentages) is telling you the PCM is adding fuel to address a LEAN circumstance... torquey reports lambda from your pre cat p2 sensors, and those lambda counts are what Sean is going to want to know... if you can't provide those, the use the tracking function on torquey and log the STFT and LTFT and send them to him along with the load (vacuum) and RPM's during the trim events. he'll dial you right in.
i've wrote a friggin' book... I'm out... I'm going to take this to a publisher...
kraven
Hegelian Scum
I finally got all the right parts (after getting some wrong ones shipped).
Heads are going together finally.
Valves in a box. Valves in a box, baby.
Got the valves in, seals, and new springs. I'm just reusing the old retainers because they don't have any stress fractures or wear damage at all, and I got stock replacement valve springs.
Going back together tomorrow or Saturday. This was a pretty straightforward repair, but getting the wrong parts shipped and having some stuff come up stretched it out. It's funny how little time it takes once you get all the stuff together.
Heads are going together finally.
Valves in a box. Valves in a box, baby.
Got the valves in, seals, and new springs. I'm just reusing the old retainers because they don't have any stress fractures or wear damage at all, and I got stock replacement valve springs.
Going back together tomorrow or Saturday. This was a pretty straightforward repair, but getting the wrong parts shipped and having some stuff come up stretched it out. It's funny how little time it takes once you get all the stuff together.
drewactual
Adventurer
there is always a huge satisfaction when you put an engine together and when it first fires up- doesn't matter if it is a lawnmower, weed eater, or a fire breathing 502cid twin turbo supercharged engine with a bottle of nitro!!!
good on ya!!
good on ya!!
kraven
Hegelian Scum
I agree. Been messing with cars since I was a kid, and I enjoy putting stuff together for that first start.
I appreciate you taking the time to write up that long post up there. That's some good information, Drew.
I'd also like to plug my favorite tool for doing heads. The Lisle 36050 install/removal tool. Forget c clamps, twisty things, and whatever else. Forget everything you've ever used. This is the new hotness and you need it if you do head work at all. If the springs are weak enough, or you're stout enough, you can just push. Otherwise, one whack with the appropriate hammer and the keepers are either in or out. Amazing. Easy. Fantastic. Simple.
I appreciate you taking the time to write up that long post up there. That's some good information, Drew.
I'd also like to plug my favorite tool for doing heads. The Lisle 36050 install/removal tool. Forget c clamps, twisty things, and whatever else. Forget everything you've ever used. This is the new hotness and you need it if you do head work at all. If the springs are weak enough, or you're stout enough, you can just push. Otherwise, one whack with the appropriate hammer and the keepers are either in or out. Amazing. Easy. Fantastic. Simple.
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kraven
Hegelian Scum
Wind was kicking up pretty hard yesterday, so I basically lost a day not wanting a ton of crap in my engine. But it mellowed out today and I got a lot done.
Did a quick compression test on one of the cylinders that tested 90-ish before I started this head replacement thing. Its up to 120 now, which is actually more than a lot of these engines had at 50k miles or so. Pretty happy about that.
Gonna get it cranked up tomorrow and see how it goes.
kraven
Hegelian Scum
... and now the fuel pump is dead. Or, it's not kicking in when you key the ignition on. When I disassembled it, it had good pressure. I had a shirtful of gasoline to prove it. So, it's probably not a bad pump.
Gonna check all the things- fuse, wiring, pigtail, and not just throw a pump at it. But it might be good practice to just put a pump in it anyway, while the tank is down. I dunno.
On a positive note: the cylinders are all holding good compression and the valvetrain is doing fine. So, I got that going for me, which is nice.
Gonna check all the things- fuse, wiring, pigtail, and not just throw a pump at it. But it might be good practice to just put a pump in it anyway, while the tank is down. I dunno.
On a positive note: the cylinders are all holding good compression and the valvetrain is doing fine. So, I got that going for me, which is nice.
