The overland beater: Dodge 1500
- Thread starter kraven
- Start date
redthies
Renaissance Redneck
Loving this! I'm a Mopar guy (but not afraid of a Ford or GMC if it the right one), and in the '97 and up battle, it's all a Dodge as far as I'm concerned. Fords were great up to '96, but after that I'm not interested, and I'm not much for any GM made after the C/K era.
Check out "stock interiors" for carpet or vinyl flooring. They are in your area, and remarkably affordable for a new form fit solution. Your scope of work on this project is big, but it makes sense. If you spent $4000 on the best example you could find, it might still have a $1000 or $1500 is sure lurking in the dark. At least this way you know exactly what you have!
Check out "stock interiors" for carpet or vinyl flooring. They are in your area, and remarkably affordable for a new form fit solution. Your scope of work on this project is big, but it makes sense. If you spent $4000 on the best example you could find, it might still have a $1000 or $1500 is sure lurking in the dark. At least this way you know exactly what you have!
kraven
Hegelian Scum
That's exactly right. I will know what I have, and how to take it apart and reassemble it properly when it breaks.
It is coming together. I have a lot of stuff pulled apart, but it's going to come back together in a hurry.
Thanks for the tip, Redthies.
I've been waffling on the idea of putting another dashboard on it. For 300 bucks, I think I can live without one. That's a big chunk of the budget and half the fun is staying on task and on budgetary target.
It is coming together. I have a lot of stuff pulled apart, but it's going to come back together in a hurry.
Thanks for the tip, Redthies.
I've been waffling on the idea of putting another dashboard on it. For 300 bucks, I think I can live without one. That's a big chunk of the budget and half the fun is staying on task and on budgetary target.
kraven
Hegelian Scum
So, here's the U-joint I took out. Well, I beat the hell out of it because it was rusted in place. Most difficult Ujoint. Ever. Turned a fixit project that should have taken an afternoon and turned it into a week+ ordeal.
Wound up beating the crap out of the yokes in the process. Had to dremel the lumps down and smooth it back out in the bores so the new one could fit. No sweat. I have a dremel and stones.
Got a moog u-joint. Heavy duty, blahblah, joint. Hit it a couple of times to drive it in and it broke- cracked a cap. Looked around at what was best, not was available and made some silly claim about being tough. Get the Spicer, say all the Jeepers that have 44's in the front. Okay, says I.
I wasn't sure what the materials and engineering difference was, but I wasn't buying another Moog joint. So, two days later it showed up.
Here's a comparo.
I'm not here to crap on Moog. They make pretty good chassis parts. I buy their ball joints and stuff, instead of the cheap garbage that Advance and Autozone and other folks sell.
I'm just reporting what I've seen in this comparison and why I went with the spicer 371 joint, in case anyone reading along is wondering.
1. The Spicer has larger diameter needle bearings. That generally implies a slower bearing speed than a smaller bearing diameter.
2. The Spicer caps have to be 2 or 3 x as strong. I didn't field test them, but I did whack them a couple of times and noticed less drift tracks in them for the same hits.
3. Greases are different. Moog uses the blue stuff. Spicer uses the red. What's the difference you say? The blue stuff is lower temp and won't last as long. Google it, if you're curious. There are entire engineering papers written on it.
The spicer I took out was rusted and beat to pieces. But the internal part, the cross, was still in one piece with no obvious stress indicators, so I could have, if the bearings had fallen out on a trail, probably kept chugging and gotten out of a muddy spot very gingerly with it. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying.
Wound up beating the crap out of the yokes in the process. Had to dremel the lumps down and smooth it back out in the bores so the new one could fit. No sweat. I have a dremel and stones.
Got a moog u-joint. Heavy duty, blahblah, joint. Hit it a couple of times to drive it in and it broke- cracked a cap. Looked around at what was best, not was available and made some silly claim about being tough. Get the Spicer, say all the Jeepers that have 44's in the front. Okay, says I.
I wasn't sure what the materials and engineering difference was, but I wasn't buying another Moog joint. So, two days later it showed up.
Here's a comparo.
I'm not here to crap on Moog. They make pretty good chassis parts. I buy their ball joints and stuff, instead of the cheap garbage that Advance and Autozone and other folks sell.
I'm just reporting what I've seen in this comparison and why I went with the spicer 371 joint, in case anyone reading along is wondering.
1. The Spicer has larger diameter needle bearings. That generally implies a slower bearing speed than a smaller bearing diameter.
2. The Spicer caps have to be 2 or 3 x as strong. I didn't field test them, but I did whack them a couple of times and noticed less drift tracks in them for the same hits.
3. Greases are different. Moog uses the blue stuff. Spicer uses the red. What's the difference you say? The blue stuff is lower temp and won't last as long. Google it, if you're curious. There are entire engineering papers written on it.
The spicer I took out was rusted and beat to pieces. But the internal part, the cross, was still in one piece with no obvious stress indicators, so I could have, if the bearings had fallen out on a trail, probably kept chugging and gotten out of a muddy spot very gingerly with it. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying.
kraven
Hegelian Scum
After I get the truck kind of finished, I'll take a look at where I am in terms of my budget. But $250 bucks for a piece of plastic that sits there, in a 17 year old truck no less, is really kind of steep. Wish there was a cheaper aftermarket part, but unfortunately these things fall apart like crazy and no one else wants in on it. So, it is what it is.
I think right now I'm sitting at about 1700 or so, with the heads and valvetrain. So, I may have some wiggle room, if I don't have to do any major assemblies.
kraven
Hegelian Scum
Thanks, Halligan. :smiley_drive:
To update the running total, which I haven't done here in a while:
Parts: 1024.98 (heads, valvetrain, gaskets, u-joint, and one axle seal)
Supplies: 32 bucks (febreeze, oxy clean, pb blaster, fuel line tool, and vent cleaner spray)
subtotal: 1056.98
Probably going to have 100 bucks worth of machine work, maybe 150 if the valve seats need to be machined for concentricity.
So: 1206.98
Truck cost: 650
Grand total so far: 1756.98, not counting title work and towing (probably 300 for all that)
edit: whoops. Forgot the Optima. 140 bucks. So, 1896.98
Forseeable mechanicals: rear pinion bearings and maybe a ring/pinion set. Probably another 100- 300 bucks with me doing the labor. Front axle needs axle seals, which is apparently a big pain in the rear on a 44.
Still need to pull the pan and plastiguage the mains (you have to loosen them anyway to replace the rear seal), so that has me marginally nervous.
So far so good. Steady as she goes.
To update the running total, which I haven't done here in a while:
Parts: 1024.98 (heads, valvetrain, gaskets, u-joint, and one axle seal)
Supplies: 32 bucks (febreeze, oxy clean, pb blaster, fuel line tool, and vent cleaner spray)
subtotal: 1056.98
Probably going to have 100 bucks worth of machine work, maybe 150 if the valve seats need to be machined for concentricity.
So: 1206.98
Truck cost: 650
Grand total so far: 1756.98, not counting title work and towing (probably 300 for all that)
edit: whoops. Forgot the Optima. 140 bucks. So, 1896.98
Forseeable mechanicals: rear pinion bearings and maybe a ring/pinion set. Probably another 100- 300 bucks with me doing the labor. Front axle needs axle seals, which is apparently a big pain in the rear on a 44.
Still need to pull the pan and plastiguage the mains (you have to loosen them anyway to replace the rear seal), so that has me marginally nervous.
So far so good. Steady as she goes.
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kraven
Hegelian Scum
Fired the machine shop today. Got my heads back in the garage and ready to drop them off at another shop in the morning.
Taking the day off to do some truck work on a really beautiful tomorrow.
found this sticker on the hood that details some options on the truck:
On the to do list tomorrow are a bunch of small stuff I have on the punch list. Headlight bulb out, pull the pan and front cover, get the front/rear seals in and the oilpan gasket, Get the oil pump out and make sure it's still in spec. There's also a little bushing in the block for the distributor that I need to check. Plastigauging mains. Gotta pick up some small parts like a radiator hose.
Let's talk about organization, just so we can get a look at one way to do this.
Here's my pile of parts in the shop by my old Mercury.
Here's the thing with taking an engine half apart or completely apart: you have to be organized whether you're taking it apart for a day or an extended period. Mine was only supposed to be apart long enough to get the heads prepped. Best plans...
But that's why we stay organized. The wolverine boot box is handy for staying organized, as are those sandwich bags and sharpie. I do as much as I can to not remember stuff. I don't need more crap to have to remember, so I stay organized as a way to be more free with my mind. I can think about stuff like how zombies move without ATP production to create muscular contraction.
The idea is to get all the little stuff I was going to do when the truck was together, now that I have another week or so to wait. A bunch of it anyway.
So, tomorrow will be a long greasy day, if all goes well.
Taking the day off to do some truck work on a really beautiful tomorrow.
found this sticker on the hood that details some options on the truck:
On the to do list tomorrow are a bunch of small stuff I have on the punch list. Headlight bulb out, pull the pan and front cover, get the front/rear seals in and the oilpan gasket, Get the oil pump out and make sure it's still in spec. There's also a little bushing in the block for the distributor that I need to check. Plastigauging mains. Gotta pick up some small parts like a radiator hose.
Let's talk about organization, just so we can get a look at one way to do this.
Here's my pile of parts in the shop by my old Mercury.
Here's the thing with taking an engine half apart or completely apart: you have to be organized whether you're taking it apart for a day or an extended period. Mine was only supposed to be apart long enough to get the heads prepped. Best plans...
But that's why we stay organized. The wolverine boot box is handy for staying organized, as are those sandwich bags and sharpie. I do as much as I can to not remember stuff. I don't need more crap to have to remember, so I stay organized as a way to be more free with my mind. I can think about stuff like how zombies move without ATP production to create muscular contraction.
The idea is to get all the little stuff I was going to do when the truck was together, now that I have another week or so to wait. A bunch of it anyway.
So, tomorrow will be a long greasy day, if all goes well.
justcuz
Explorer
If the rear axle turns out to be toasted, I would consider finding a set of 3/4 ton axles for it.
While your there grab the springs, driveshafts and 241 T-case from the 3/4 ton.
I forget if the 1/2 ton wheels are 16's but the stock 3/4 ton wheels are and if so you can swap tires.
I've always wanted to find one of these first gen extra cab short beds and throw a set of 3/4 ton axles, suspension and T-case in one.
I saw a green one with tan interior and Dodge chrome wheels done this way once and it was so nice it sticks in my mind even now.
Following along for the Dodge knowlege lessons!
While your there grab the springs, driveshafts and 241 T-case from the 3/4 ton.
I forget if the 1/2 ton wheels are 16's but the stock 3/4 ton wheels are and if so you can swap tires.
I've always wanted to find one of these first gen extra cab short beds and throw a set of 3/4 ton axles, suspension and T-case in one.
I saw a green one with tan interior and Dodge chrome wheels done this way once and it was so nice it sticks in my mind even now.
Following along for the Dodge knowlege lessons!
kraven
Hegelian Scum
Justcuz, I think I'd love to swap it to a 3/4 or single wheel ton axle in the rear. Or swap both axles, f/r just to get away from the more delicate half ton stuff and have 6 lug all around.
Looks like they come up pretty regularly on Craigs, so I may just keep my eyes peeled anyway. Looks like it's about 500 or so to buy the pair, from the right guy. Just have to be sure to not buy busted junk.
If I get it apart and it looks like I'll have to drop 300+ on the rear, I'll just get a 3/4 ton rear.
Thanks for following along. I'm honored by your interest.
Looks like they come up pretty regularly on Craigs, so I may just keep my eyes peeled anyway. Looks like it's about 500 or so to buy the pair, from the right guy. Just have to be sure to not buy busted junk.
If I get it apart and it looks like I'll have to drop 300+ on the rear, I'll just get a 3/4 ton rear.
Thanks for following along. I'm honored by your interest.
justcuz
Explorer
The knowledge is great, especially about the intake and transmission stuff.
Dodge used Dana 60 and 70 rear axles and I can research and see if they used a Dana 44 in a light duty 3/4 ton on the first generation of the coil sprung trucks. I seem to remember they did.
That way all you would have to do is install 8 lug from the knuckles out on the axle you have as long as the gears match.
Or maybe use Chevy 3/4 ton outers on your front axle, it would depend if the ABS sensors are in the bearings or the back of the hub.
Just to confirm, some early light duty 3/4 ton Dodges of your generation did use a Dana 44 front axle but most had a Dana 60.
The 3/4 ton trucks all had the NP241 or NP241HD transfer cases.
Dodge used Dana 60 and 70 rear axles and I can research and see if they used a Dana 44 in a light duty 3/4 ton on the first generation of the coil sprung trucks. I seem to remember they did.
That way all you would have to do is install 8 lug from the knuckles out on the axle you have as long as the gears match.
Or maybe use Chevy 3/4 ton outers on your front axle, it would depend if the ABS sensors are in the bearings or the back of the hub.
Just to confirm, some early light duty 3/4 ton Dodges of your generation did use a Dana 44 front axle but most had a Dana 60.
The 3/4 ton trucks all had the NP241 or NP241HD transfer cases.
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kraven
Hegelian Scum
Yeah, I'd really like to get a floater rear that's more robust than the 9.25 it has. I'm used to the ford 9 inch, which has pinion support and bolt in axles. I don't like c clips and unsupported stress points. I'm also lucky this truck has only rear wheel abs (sensor on the diff). So, swapping a front might be easy. Maybe. I don't know.
The 241 tcase looks like a good upgrade. I'm going to probably just put the stock stuff back together with seals and whatnot to make it stop leaking, then go from there.
It is extremely hard to stay on mission and not get scope creep. I have plenty of cash to do this, and more, but I'm enjoying the challenge of not just throwing plans to the wind.
Heads got a pretty good check up from the machine shop, and I'm waiting on the new valves (still) to get here. This stuff is super duper weird when you start trying to do something with the stock valvetrain besides either rebuild it or totally hot rod it. If you want the gore and minutia, I'll type it up. Otherwise, I'll just keep it to myself. It's a lot of measuring and geometry and stuff. Not really fun to a lot of people.
Wanted to fly in on some battery cables today (stock ones are kind of shot), but the garage door opener broke and Mrs. Kraven is not super happy about that. So, I'm dissecting it and ordering a new gear set.
Knowing how to work on stuff is a curse. Normal people just call someone and keep watching Street Outlaws.
And the chainsaw needs a new fuel system, so I have to fix that. The project motorcycle needs to be reassembled and sold (71 CB350 supersport). And I have about an acre of grass that has now decided to grow like it's been fertilized by that ginger on the Scott's commercials who knows so much about lawn care.
Got a lot of stuff on my plate. But luckily the Dodge will be a piece of cake to put back together once I get over the hump of assembling the new heads. I can bolt the thing back together and have it running in an afternoon.
The 241 tcase looks like a good upgrade. I'm going to probably just put the stock stuff back together with seals and whatnot to make it stop leaking, then go from there.
It is extremely hard to stay on mission and not get scope creep. I have plenty of cash to do this, and more, but I'm enjoying the challenge of not just throwing plans to the wind.
Heads got a pretty good check up from the machine shop, and I'm waiting on the new valves (still) to get here. This stuff is super duper weird when you start trying to do something with the stock valvetrain besides either rebuild it or totally hot rod it. If you want the gore and minutia, I'll type it up. Otherwise, I'll just keep it to myself. It's a lot of measuring and geometry and stuff. Not really fun to a lot of people.
Wanted to fly in on some battery cables today (stock ones are kind of shot), but the garage door opener broke and Mrs. Kraven is not super happy about that. So, I'm dissecting it and ordering a new gear set.
Knowing how to work on stuff is a curse. Normal people just call someone and keep watching Street Outlaws.
And the chainsaw needs a new fuel system, so I have to fix that. The project motorcycle needs to be reassembled and sold (71 CB350 supersport). And I have about an acre of grass that has now decided to grow like it's been fertilized by that ginger on the Scott's commercials who knows so much about lawn care.
Got a lot of stuff on my plate. But luckily the Dodge will be a piece of cake to put back together once I get over the hump of assembling the new heads. I can bolt the thing back together and have it running in an afternoon.
justcuz
Explorer
Yea normal people calling somebody and watching street outlaws watch the money fly out of their bank account and still pay for substandard work sometimes too.
It's OK take your time we all have our priorities.
My hedges I just trimmed a month ago seem to like the rain we been getting lately and need it again already!
Weeds never stop growing and something is always happening where the wife needs a hand.
My mother in law just went home after a 3 day visit and nothing gets done when she is here!
Magnumswap.com says the EQ heads are better than anyone else's. Says Edelbrocks ports are smaller and the cast iron remakes have the same problem.
It's OK take your time we all have our priorities.
My hedges I just trimmed a month ago seem to like the rain we been getting lately and need it again already!
Weeds never stop growing and something is always happening where the wife needs a hand.
My mother in law just went home after a 3 day visit and nothing gets done when she is here!
Magnumswap.com says the EQ heads are better than anyone else's. Says Edelbrocks ports are smaller and the cast iron remakes have the same problem.
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kraven
Hegelian Scum
Yeah, the EQ parts are an amazing deal. Not only do you get better castings, but you get better ports. Some people are seeing a 40hp bump from just the heads.
I got these from 4secondsflat.com and only paid 540 for the pair (plus the ride). I figure I'll have about 800 in them by the time I have them assembled. Totally worth it. Do it once and do it right.
I got these from 4secondsflat.com and only paid 540 for the pair (plus the ride). I figure I'll have about 800 in them by the time I have them assembled. Totally worth it. Do it once and do it right.