pappawheely
Autonomous4X4
Nice project. That truck will last forever.
The Sooper Camper F350
- Thread starter Sooper Camper
- Start date
east_tn_81
Adventurer
If you are going to work on the rear are there any interest in doing a locker? I know it is 2wd so I thought you might think about it . With that said I have probably reread your build about 3 times now I really like these old trucks and this one is a keeper.
MikeBoyle
Observer
Cool old Ford. I'll never knock a 2wd. I learned how to drive off road in a 2wd 1961 F-100. With the granny gear in the tranny, fairly flexy springs and a D60 with trac lock in the rear I learned proper tire placement and how to read the terrain well enough that I could follow my friends around everywhere they went in their 4wd's.
Sooper Camper
Adventurer
a traction adder of some kind is definitely in the long term plans. the baller in me says ARB, but the budget leans more towards lunchbox locker. I just don't really like automatic/detroit style in the rear of a vehicle that will see mostly street miles, they do goofy things on the highway sometimes and this truck needs all the turning radius it can get. I can just barely do a U-ey in my cul-de-sac if there are no cars or trash cans out there, if i put a lunchbox or something in there I'd probably kiss that good bye. options for the D70U are relatively limited, either I go with a Spicer Power lock, lunchbox/Detriot or ARB.
its interesting, a lot of the newer single cab-long bed trucks have a wheelbase like this. the F150 regular cab long beds have the same wheelbase and similar bed proportions too. it really makes carrying a load so much more stable, and new trucks have much better turning radiuses too which helps offset the wheelbase. my F150 Super Crew had the same wheelbase and turned a lot better than this truck, even with 4wd.
thanks for all the encouragement guys, i've definitely been reading this site a while and taking notes...I want this truck to be the last one I build for quite a while.
underdrive
jackwagon
That is a darn cool truck you have, and you seem to be doing pretty good work on it. Two suggestions:
1) consider welding in gussets in the corners of the brace running above your engine between your shock towers, namely to reinforce the joint between the flat tube and the short pieces connecting it to the towers. One of said corners is seen here in this pic:
2) is the the Detroit TrueTrac available for your axle? It's a torque-based differential that a lot of people seem to like for trucks that tow heavy and thus cannot tolerate a typical auto-locker, quite good street manners. Another thing to possibly consider is entirely swapping the rear axle out for something more modern and/or common, for example a GM corporate 14-bolt (bonus points for them being available with factory discs for like 15 years now). Would likely require moving the spring perches, but seeing your work so far I kinda doubt that would be a problem for you.
1) consider welding in gussets in the corners of the brace running above your engine between your shock towers, namely to reinforce the joint between the flat tube and the short pieces connecting it to the towers. One of said corners is seen here in this pic:
2) is the the Detroit TrueTrac available for your axle? It's a torque-based differential that a lot of people seem to like for trucks that tow heavy and thus cannot tolerate a typical auto-locker, quite good street manners. Another thing to possibly consider is entirely swapping the rear axle out for something more modern and/or common, for example a GM corporate 14-bolt (bonus points for them being available with factory discs for like 15 years now). Would likely require moving the spring perches, but seeing your work so far I kinda doubt that would be a problem for you.
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
Awesome project. I'm hoping to get just as intricate with my 91 Bronco some day. Just gotta love the old fords.
As for your rear axle, have you considered a simple limited slip differential, rather than a full locker? I was able to pull a LS Diff out of a junkyard rig for my Bronco's 8.8 rear axle for $50. I don't know what your driving situations will be, but I can't help but feel that full locking differentials are over hyped these days. I'll admit, its a good thing to have in the front axle of a 4WD, but you don't sound like you need a full locker in the rear. Just something to prevent excessive slippage, which is exactly what a LS would do.
Oh, and good on your for considered a TTB front 4WD suspension instead of a solid axle. TTB gets no respect for how durable and resilient the design really is, while still providing a much smoother ride than a solid front axle.
As for your rear axle, have you considered a simple limited slip differential, rather than a full locker? I was able to pull a LS Diff out of a junkyard rig for my Bronco's 8.8 rear axle for $50. I don't know what your driving situations will be, but I can't help but feel that full locking differentials are over hyped these days. I'll admit, its a good thing to have in the front axle of a 4WD, but you don't sound like you need a full locker in the rear. Just something to prevent excessive slippage, which is exactly what a LS would do.
Oh, and good on your for considered a TTB front 4WD suspension instead of a solid axle. TTB gets no respect for how durable and resilient the design really is, while still providing a much smoother ride than a solid front axle.
Sooper Camper
Adventurer
yea, i really need to put something there sooner or later...just been trying to find the time to draw something cool that won't be a knuckle slicer at the same time. good eye, most people accept that as a "job well done"...its pretty hack, don't look at it from the side profile or you'll see that it was done late on a hot afternoon and is more or less an afterthought!
i always forget about the TrueTrac, but most of the suppliers I work with rarely stock them for a D70. Keep in mind, most of the Dodge D70's are 32 spline, not 35 like mine; there is precisely 10000000 variations of D70 BOM's out there, not nearly as simple as the ubiquitous potato rut digging 14 bolt. The mud truck guys I sell parts to all swear by the Spicer Power Lock, its the Dana Spicer version of a clutch posi and they are pretty legendary among the old school guys before all the fancier new diffs came out.
i know a disc'd 14 bolt is the sensible thing to do...i just like Dana axles better. hard to argue with a nodular housing thats not only smaller and lighter than a 14 bolt but stronger too, as well as 35 spline shafts. Don't get me wrong, the 14 bolt is cool and they are so cheap and simple. i built one for my crawler, but if I were to do it over again and not on a college kid with a summer job budget I'd have gone D70. a full float 35 spline 9" hybrid has also crossed my mind, but that sounds expensive. my buddy built one in college, its been an awesome axle and the strength to weight and diff clearance ratio is unbeatable.
my truck lives by 2 mottos: "thank the lord for the big block ford" and "beam team always wins"
having owned and driven a fair number of solid axle, beamed and A-Arm trucks...I'll stick with the sheer simplicity of beams. plus, you can align them with chain and bottle jacks!
good luck with the Bronco...i built an 89 over many years when I was in college/just after. I could talk your ear off for a week straight on what works, what doesn't work, what is going to drive you crazy and what will make you shake your head in dumbfounded laugther. they are awesome trucks, I really didn't know what I had when I started with it. A D60/14 bolt swap was both the best and worst thing I ever did. Best in that they opened up a world of "beating it" but worst in that I pushed that truck to the point it's only practical use was "beating it into submission every time i took it out". I did the whole Rubicon point to point in the rain with a 4" drop bracket lift, rear Detroit and 35s...should have left it there, put better shocks and bumpers on and I'd still have it
underdrive
jackwagon
Eh, we call that a work in progress. Can't always do all you want at once so often having some part done is simply better than not having anything at all, plus by the time you finish the project you often come up with ideas that are better than what you had planned initially.
The Pwr-Lock is a great diff indeed, especially the 4-pinion kind (seem to recall seeing somewhere than the newer ones are 2-pinion only). The ability to restack their clutches to adjust their grip is pretty neat, sure wish the Sterling axles could be done the same way...
May want to investigate '99-up Econoline vans, as some came with disc brakes from the factory, pretty sure limited-slip was also an option. Downside is they typically have something like 4.30 gears, well I suppose if you had big tires that would be a good thing but with what you're running now such gears will latch onto your wallet like a bloodsucker if you like driving faster than 45 mph. Oh, while I remember, check the load rating on your new wheels. The extra-wide factory steelies you removed from that D70 were quite strong, however that hasn't always been the case with aftermarket wheels, and you probally don't wanna be running 2200lbs wheels on a 6000lb-rated axle even if tires do allow it :ylsmoke:
Speaking of which, you're lucky your truck is not a '78 or newer - those have shorter twin beams and while they do ride nice enough I still think the older longer beams terminating at each frame rail tend to ride nicer. Shame the radius arms were so short, but you already got that coveredmy truck lives by 2 mottos: "thank the lord for the big block ford" and "beam team always wins"
AFBronco235
Crew Chief
You don't need to tell me that. I'm always amused at how younger "mechanics" hate the twin I-beam and TTB suspensions because they can't find a computer to tell them how to set it. I'm always like "give me a tape measure and some hand tools and I'll show you how its done." I was very lucky to have learned how to do alignments by some old pros. No fancy machines required. Just some good old fashioned know how. I think the most high tech tool they had was a powered grease gun, but that was only used sparingly.
underdrive
jackwagon
Yup, on a 2wd to 4x4 conversion we went with a factory TTB suspension due to its almost car-like manners on pavement while still being plenty capable after leaving the improved roads, a beat-up old tape measure and several $5 magnetic angle finders from Harbor Freight enabled us to do something the alignment shop struggled with for over two hours and ultimately gave up on. Of course our method did require removing the front wheels, which was something they screamed bloody murder against when we suggested it while truck was still on their alignment rack - cause God forbid they have to reset their fancy laser-beam machinery, lets instead burn up the afternoon doodling over how to break the taper fit between the adjuster sleeves and the upper ball joints with wheels still in place and little to no space to even swing a hammer, and in the process ruin whatever plans and/or schedules the customer might have had up until that point...
That said, the beams bending technique posted earlier only applies to kingpin I-beam trucks (so '86 and older), the newer ones with the ball joints have "do not heat, bend, or twist" (or something like that) cast right onto their I-beams and they use the aforementioned sleeves around the upper balljoints studs.
east_tn_81
Adventurer
It is good to find others with love for a TTB and the twin I beam. I was always asked when I was going to change the TTB on my bronco.
Sooper Camper
Adventurer
I kept those wheels, since they are pretty rare. I have the matching set of original hubcaps too, just in case I get sentimental and decide to put some steelies back on someday. I need to find a new set of drive tires to put on those wheels, finding 33" mudders for 16.5" wheels isn't the easiest or cheapest thing to do nowadays though. Pretty sure the KMC wheels I got are rated to around 2500lbs, more than I'll ever put in the back of the truck most likely.
I added a pre-pump fuel filter, seemed like a good idea. I'll eventually use an old mud flap or something to protect the hoses from snagging on brush
I also found some rare factory Saginaw brackets and upgraded my super sad and tired pump. I also made my very first AN line, and it didn't pop so that's a good thing.
I also decided I had waay too many lines running every where for the old steering cooler setup, and didn't like it being up front and exposed to damage so I mounted it in the engine bay. There was actually a hole in the core support too, so it will get decent air flow when moving.
east_tn_81
Adventurer
Nice. How are you liking the new location for the steering cooler ?
underdrive
jackwagon
Filter looks like it belongs in there, what brand is it and where did you get it? We're using one that's about twice the size of yours, it's for a big truck and the only place we could stash it so it doesn't hang too far down was between the transfer case and the fuel tank - 7" of space there, filter is 6" in diameter, fit like a glove
Power steering cooler location choice is interesting, in that I seem to remember seeing a very similar setup from the factory. What is it bolted to there, does that "shelf" serve other uses? If not, may wanna think about dropping a small box (aka ammo can) in there for some basic tools and/or small spare parts.
Regarding the Saginaw pump bracketry, those may indeed be rare for a pickup truck however should be pretty common in big passenger cars of the are, Lincoln Continental Town Car and Mark V should have them. It's a different bracket design, cast aluminum with only two bolts (pivots around the top one, bottom one is the clamp-down), and takes up considerably less space compared to your current setup. It places the pump much lower, kinda in front of the exhaust manifold, which frees up space above it for something else - a York A/C compressor is the factory choice there IIRC, and you know what use those can be re-tasked for if you don't actually have the rest of air-con system in your truck :chef:
Power steering cooler location choice is interesting, in that I seem to remember seeing a very similar setup from the factory. What is it bolted to there, does that "shelf" serve other uses? If not, may wanna think about dropping a small box (aka ammo can) in there for some basic tools and/or small spare parts.
Regarding the Saginaw pump bracketry, those may indeed be rare for a pickup truck however should be pretty common in big passenger cars of the are, Lincoln Continental Town Car and Mark V should have them. It's a different bracket design, cast aluminum with only two bolts (pivots around the top one, bottom one is the clamp-down), and takes up considerably less space compared to your current setup. It places the pump much lower, kinda in front of the exhaust manifold, which frees up space above it for something else - a York A/C compressor is the factory choice there IIRC, and you know what use those can be re-tasked for if you don't actually have the rest of air-con system in your truck :chef: