Agreed! Specifically, the interior. Haha hey one other question for you. Did you end up going with Amtico flooring? If so, which kind? I'm looking on the Centura website (Canadian), and it looks like there's three different levels of flooring available, assuming I go with the hardwood look. There's the Mirra wood http://centura.ca/commercial/mirra-wood/ which seems to be used more in commercial applications, there's the luxury 500 line http://centura.ca/commercial/luxury-500/ which says it was developed for medium to heavy commercial and residential use, and then there's natura wood (not natural wood) http://centura.ca/?s=natura&lang=en&lang=en which I think may be for more residential applications, but the website doesn't really say. I checked the pricing for my store here in Peterborough and it looks like it's $216.36 for a carton of the mirra wood, $175.32 for a carton of the Luxury 500 and $91.44 for a carton of the Natura series (a carton will do 36 square feet, so more than enough for what I need it for). Just wondering if anyone had any insights on the differences between the three and which one I should go with. As always, all comments and opinions are welcome. Thanks!
The TARDIS - A Four Wheel Camper Build
- Thread starter Overland Hadley
- Start date
ETAV8R
Founder of D.E.R.P.
YEP!
I too have one that is over ten years old and still like new. Now it has only been used a couple of times and is of an older design from MSR but I just filled it up and it works as it should. I hear MSR has a great warranty policy. I screwed up and ordered a 4L instead of the 10L. Campmor is sending me out the 10L with free shipping and price matched amazon. I will try out the older bag in camp this weekend.
Hey Overland,
This thread has been more than just "of use"... It's basically the reason I ended up with a shell model (that and the fact that it was the only thing I could find in my time zone, just a few hours away). Here's a couple pics of how it looked when we got it, and how it sits now, just waiting for some flooring and cabinets.
Which leads me to my next question... What did you end up going with for flooring? Did you get the Amtico stuff? And which line did you go with? I saw on the Centura website here (Canadian, eh?) that there are three different grades of Amtico hardwood-style floors. There's the Mirra wood, which was designed for heavy commercial applications, the luxury 500 which was designed for medium to heavy commercial and residential use, and then there's the natura wood, which I really can't find much information on at all. The Mirra seems to be about $6.01 per square foot, the luxury 500 about $4.87 and the natura line is $2.54 per square foot, Canadian. I'm just trying to decide whether it's worth the extra money to go for the Mirra wood or if the Luxury 500 will fit the bill?
One other question for you, what did you end up doing about propane storage? I'm not sure about the US, but here in Canada, all propane tanks need to be in a sealed container and vented to the outside. All high pressure lines need to be regulated inside the locker, and only low pressure lines are allowed inside the camper. I had the same idea as you about mounting the propane tank on the passenger side floor, but we'd mount ours under the fold down couch. When I went into the RV shop to ask some questions about building the locker, the guy behind the counter was a little less than receptive to my idea, so now I'm not too sure which way to go. I think it can be done inside the camper, just as long as the storage locker is sealed off from the rest of the camper with a good locking seal to get the propane tanks in and out. I'd like to run two separate shut off lines, like you have, well three actually, so I can power my Partner cook stove, wave 3 heater, and then have a dead line for cooking outside when the weather is nice. Any additional thoughts, insights, and pictures would be greatly appreciated. I'd really hate to have to mount an external storage locker and have all that weight riding above the bed rails.
Cheers,
Dylan
This thread has been more than just "of use"... It's basically the reason I ended up with a shell model (that and the fact that it was the only thing I could find in my time zone, just a few hours away). Here's a couple pics of how it looked when we got it, and how it sits now, just waiting for some flooring and cabinets.
Which leads me to my next question... What did you end up going with for flooring? Did you get the Amtico stuff? And which line did you go with? I saw on the Centura website here (Canadian, eh?) that there are three different grades of Amtico hardwood-style floors. There's the Mirra wood, which was designed for heavy commercial applications, the luxury 500 which was designed for medium to heavy commercial and residential use, and then there's the natura wood, which I really can't find much information on at all. The Mirra seems to be about $6.01 per square foot, the luxury 500 about $4.87 and the natura line is $2.54 per square foot, Canadian. I'm just trying to decide whether it's worth the extra money to go for the Mirra wood or if the Luxury 500 will fit the bill?
One other question for you, what did you end up doing about propane storage? I'm not sure about the US, but here in Canada, all propane tanks need to be in a sealed container and vented to the outside. All high pressure lines need to be regulated inside the locker, and only low pressure lines are allowed inside the camper. I had the same idea as you about mounting the propane tank on the passenger side floor, but we'd mount ours under the fold down couch. When I went into the RV shop to ask some questions about building the locker, the guy behind the counter was a little less than receptive to my idea, so now I'm not too sure which way to go. I think it can be done inside the camper, just as long as the storage locker is sealed off from the rest of the camper with a good locking seal to get the propane tanks in and out. I'd like to run two separate shut off lines, like you have, well three actually, so I can power my Partner cook stove, wave 3 heater, and then have a dead line for cooking outside when the weather is nice. Any additional thoughts, insights, and pictures would be greatly appreciated. I'd really hate to have to mount an external storage locker and have all that weight riding above the bed rails.
Cheers,
Dylan
Overland Hadley
on a journey
I did try to make this thread comprehensive and somewhat easy to find information in.
I would go with a high grade commercial flooring, given the use and abuse a camper sees.
I ended up using the now discontinued Manninton iCore II flooring. It is a commercial waterproof composite floor, that has hollow air channels inside the core. It is a great flooring; almost indestructible, fairly lightweight, has insulate qualities, waterproof, and it looks beautiful. I did a quick Google search and it looks like www.floorstoyourhome.com still has some seconds available, and they do ship samples so that is something to look into if you are interested.
Most people will not want to give any advice on propane systems as it is a dangerous and explosive gas you are dealing with. Also any place the sells propane parts will want them to be installed by a "qualified" person, so it is no good asking about DIY. But it sounds like you have an understanding of what needs to be done to make a place to store propane.
My propane "locker" is located under the back corner of the counter top, and the tank is sitting on the bench above the rails. It is not ideal, but it is a good compromise for my setup. I simply made an airtight space that contains the tank, regulator and valves. This space is vented to the outside through the floor, as propane is heavy and sinks down. I made sure the tank is very secure and will not move around. I also installed the FireBoy-Xintex S-1A detector and solenoid. I found the diagram here to be very helpful.
Keep up the good work on your camper! Keep us posted on the progress.
Overland Hadley
on a journey
We need more photos of your camper in its natural habitat.
I know!
(More coming this autumn.)
I certainly don't want to hijack, but maybe we can figure this out together, and I have to assume other people will need a solution someday. Here's a thread with my approach so far. I'm going to try and get something done before the fall and would love any input. I have gotten some good feedback, but information and examples are hard to come by.
There's also a homemade propane box somewhere here on the forums posted by username "bstory" but I don't have the link handy (look for their Sprinter buildout). It's a side-opener (I'd prefer a top-opener for a bit more safety) but the opening is a few inches off the floor so it's not like propane would be pooling at your access door.
The only alternative I know of to designing/building yourself (or having it done by a fabricator/welder) is to buy a propane locker for a boat.
Nathanael, just to confirm, it sounds like your propane box drains above or onto the walls/rails of the truck bed (it's not sitting on the floor of the camper)? I've thought about doing that too, but for me the floor might be a little more out of the way. I ask because I get the impression you've put a lot of thought into these things...
Hey Camper101, I read your original post over on Wander the West. I've been following it closely to see what the consensus was. I've looked at propane lockers designed for boats but man, they are expensive. Seems like a bit of a ripoff, especially for something you could make yourself (well, I couldn't, but I know a few people who could). I'm waiting until my new Partner stove comes in next week to take it over to the RV repair man and get his thoughts on the propane locker. He seems like a pretty straight shooter so I'm hoping he can give me a few ideas.
I was also thinking about a Wave heater, but read somewhere that they can actually suck the oxygen out of a space, which would explain why they don't function at very high altitudes, because there's not enough oxygen for them. Has anyone ever had any troubles with the Wave heater sucking the oxygen out of their popup camper? I can't see these rigs being overly air tight, so it may not be an issue at all, but just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were. In the video, it shows the person opening a window so the heater can get enough oxygen, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of running the heater? Maybe I'm crazy, but when it's cold outside, I like to keep the windows closed and the heat turned up high. Am I all alone on this one or does anyone else feel the same way?
I was also thinking about a Wave heater, but read somewhere that they can actually suck the oxygen out of a space, which would explain why they don't function at very high altitudes, because there's not enough oxygen for them. Has anyone ever had any troubles with the Wave heater sucking the oxygen out of their popup camper? I can't see these rigs being overly air tight, so it may not be an issue at all, but just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were. In the video, it shows the person opening a window so the heater can get enough oxygen, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of running the heater? Maybe I'm crazy, but when it's cold outside, I like to keep the windows closed and the heat turned up high. Am I all alone on this one or does anyone else feel the same way?
Ramblinman
Observer
My FWC
I have a 2010 Hawk. It is very air tight. Not dust gets inside, and there is no way I can lift the roof with the door closed. Do not under estimate the FWC They are well made.
Also in my neck of the woods ... people die regularly using Wave/Buddy heaters in their campers. Not cracking a window will likely mean waking up dead at some point.
This said, lots of people use the wave with great success. I would imagine that they allow air inside somehow.
I use a furnace. Works great.
I have a 2010 Hawk. It is very air tight. Not dust gets inside, and there is no way I can lift the roof with the door closed. Do not under estimate the FWC They are well made.
Also in my neck of the woods ... people die regularly using Wave/Buddy heaters in their campers. Not cracking a window will likely mean waking up dead at some point.
This said, lots of people use the wave with great success. I would imagine that they allow air inside somehow.
I use a furnace. Works great.
1stGen I'd love to hear what comes out of your meeting with the RV guy.
The safety of Wave 3s is often debated, and I think there are good views on both sides. I used one for maybe 20 nights (last fall to this spring) but decided to install a furnace because:
- Wave 3 just isn't enough for winter nights in the mountains (for me and my wife at least, maybe somebody tougher would be fine)
- I didn't like having to keep venting as much as you need to, not only for safety but also to control condensation (the Wave 3, like anything burning propane in the living space, releases water as well as using the oxygen)
You definitely need to open vents and/or windows if you're using a Wave 3. Not only can it use up the oxygen, but if it starts malfunctioning (possibly due to low oxygen?) it can produce carbon monoxide.
FYI I used it at 9,000 ft and higher, but it just wasn't enough heat for me in winter months.
The safety of Wave 3s is often debated, and I think there are good views on both sides. I used one for maybe 20 nights (last fall to this spring) but decided to install a furnace because:
- Wave 3 just isn't enough for winter nights in the mountains (for me and my wife at least, maybe somebody tougher would be fine)
- I didn't like having to keep venting as much as you need to, not only for safety but also to control condensation (the Wave 3, like anything burning propane in the living space, releases water as well as using the oxygen)
You definitely need to open vents and/or windows if you're using a Wave 3. Not only can it use up the oxygen, but if it starts malfunctioning (possibly due to low oxygen?) it can produce carbon monoxide.
FYI I used it at 9,000 ft and higher, but it just wasn't enough heat for me in winter months.
Well there are no real mountains anywhere near Ontario, so I'm not so worried about the altitude factor, but the carbon monoxide is definitely an area of concern, and waking up dead, well, no one really wants that. I guess a carbon monoxide detector is a must with any sort of propane furnace. We're trying to build our camper to run as little powered accessories as possible, and a big draw on the system would be the blowers associated with most propane furnaces. We've got one 24 series deep cycle to run our two LED lights inside, two 12-volt receptacles (one which will be dedicated to a Blue Sea USB charger for cameras, phones, etc), as well as the TruckFridge TF51 (I know, it's huge, but on trips over 10 days or more, it's sure gonna be nice to have). We don't really plan to use the camper in the winter, so it would be mainly used to take the chill out of the air on those cool fall nights. I suppose the idea of cracking a window isn't such a bad thing, especially if it's down by the couch and we're up on the cabover.
Camper101, if you're not using your wave heater and wanted to get rid of it, I'd certainly be interested to give it a try. Might help me decide whether the Wave 3 is enough for our camper or whether we should be looking at some kind of a propane furnace with a built in blower.
Cheers,
Dylan
Camper101, if you're not using your wave heater and wanted to get rid of it, I'd certainly be interested to give it a try. Might help me decide whether the Wave 3 is enough for our camper or whether we should be looking at some kind of a propane furnace with a built in blower.
Cheers,
Dylan
Overland Hadley
on a journey
I do not mind at all, if there is a positive exchange of ideas.
Most propane lockers that I know of are made of fiberglass. They do not need to be overly strong, just sealed. Of course the tank needs to be strongly secured, but that can be achieved by bolting through the locker to the camper frame.
Yes, my tank and locker are not on the floor of the camper but sitting up on the side on the bench area, under the counter top. So the weight is not as low as if it was on the floor, but it is as far forward as possible. (It is also on the passenger side, where you want more of the weight if you have a Gen2 Tacoma.)
Overland Hadley
on a journey
Something that I have considered is that propane is not nearly as scary on a truck camper as it is on a boat.
A huge issue on a boat is if there is a leak the propane will pool at the bottom of the boat, in the bilge below the water line. Now imagine the trouble it is going to be to get propane gas out of the bilge, when you are in the middle of the ocean. (Most sailboats do not have blowers.)
Now consider a leak in a truck camper. Simply open the door and the "pool" of propane will spill out.
Of course propane is extremely flammable and explosive, and we want to do everything we can to stop any from leaking.
On a side note;
the only problem I have had on boats with propane is a leak at the hob, and that is inside the cabin, not inside the sealed locker.
I have been on boats with questionable lockers, that were more or less not sealed. The locker was just vented at the floor and was top opening.
I have also been on boats that did not have a propane locker but just had the tanks tied to the deck. So if there was a leak it would "flow" overboard and not into the boat. Not saying this is the best solution, just that everything is a compromise.
All boats I have been on have had a solenoid to turn the propane on and off inside the locker.
A huge issue on a boat is if there is a leak the propane will pool at the bottom of the boat, in the bilge below the water line. Now imagine the trouble it is going to be to get propane gas out of the bilge, when you are in the middle of the ocean. (Most sailboats do not have blowers.)
Now consider a leak in a truck camper. Simply open the door and the "pool" of propane will spill out.
Of course propane is extremely flammable and explosive, and we want to do everything we can to stop any from leaking.
On a side note;
the only problem I have had on boats with propane is a leak at the hob, and that is inside the cabin, not inside the sealed locker.
I have been on boats with questionable lockers, that were more or less not sealed. The locker was just vented at the floor and was top opening.
I have also been on boats that did not have a propane locker but just had the tanks tied to the deck. So if there was a leak it would "flow" overboard and not into the boat. Not saying this is the best solution, just that everything is a compromise.
All boats I have been on have had a solenoid to turn the propane on and off inside the locker.
Overland Hadley
on a journey
This is a good thing to read through. Thanks again to Doug Hackney for putting this information together.
Overland Hadley
on a journey
The Wave heater uses air from inside the camper, it is not externally vented.
Here is a company that makes vented catalytic heaters. ventedcatheater.com
The campers are very air tight. You must vent when using a heater or a stove inside the camper. You also want to cross ventilate, open the roof vent an inch and open the glass window an inch. Ventilate more if you have more people inside the camper or are running both the heater and the stove.
Yes, it is counter productive to open a window when you turn on the heater, but these are very small spaces and it is good to have some fresh air coming in, even if you are not running a heater. At one point on WtW there was a discussion about using up the oxygen even without running a heater. I forget the math, but it looked like with more than 2 people inside the camper you really needed to have a vent open, as too much of the oxygen would get used up overnight.
I installed the Fireboy-Xintex CO Sentinel Carbon Monoxide Detector. (Link) I have had it go off when I was cooking with 3 burners and was running the heater.