the ultimate Pan-American Expedition vehicle

[charlieaarons]

If you want a potentially violent adventure with an armored vehicle, might I suggest that you route via Afghanistan, Washington DC (after dark), Pakistan, Iran and Iraq, with stops in Syria, Philadelphia, Israel, Sudan, South Boston, Ethiopia, Libya, Johannesburg SA, Morrocco and New York City.

[/b]

You might even shorten that list. HUBB people report safe travel experience thru northern Afghanistan to Pakistan; thru Pakistan, Iran, Syria,Sudan, Libya and Ethiopia.
I myself have safely travelled in a small private vehicle throughout Israel (in 2003) and Johannesburg (in 1993).
The only places I'd really avoid would be Iraq and certain sections of US cities.

Charlie

 

[BruceNP]

You might even shorten that list. HUBB people report safe travel experience thru northern Afghanistan to Pakistan; thru Pakistan, Iran, Syria,Sudan, Libya and Ethiopia.
I myself have safely travelled in a small private vehicle throughout Israel (in 2003) and Johannesburg (in 1993).
The only places I'd really avoid would be Iraq and certain sections of US cities.

Charlie

You are probably right, though leave Jo'berg on there.

 

[Fishenough]

7. There are fewer armed radicals in most places you are headed than in NYC, Philly and Washington ... get real. You can't drive across the Darien Gap anyway so you will have to ship around it. Be prepared to have a complete change of plans. It's not real bright on the bike riders to drag their gear through the Darien. The Colombian side is all swamp and marshlands, the Panama side is all mountainous and a rain forest. On the south side of the Gap, you'll find that the region is controlled by the FARC. More on that later.

Friends and family are off to NYC in 5 days, yet consider the Baha too unsafe.

Here's a thread on van spotting in Guatemala; http://toyotavans.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4502

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

You are probably right, though leave Jo'berg on there.

Because none of the ones listed above have anything to do with where these guys are going... I'll add a couple of the places I know are dangerous.

Add the Zona Roja en San Jose, Costa Rica. Some 20,000 jobless Nicaraguans in an area the size of 4 football fields. No electricity, plenty of shoeless prostitutes, dead dogs in the streets that are covered in trash. We actually put the vehicle (TDI Frontier) in 4wd incase we had to run people over... oh and we didnt go less than 30 through there and had to lay on the horn a few times. 1/2 mile away was the movie theater we were going to.

Northern neighborhoods in Granada, Nicaragua. Use some caution when you pass through Granada... and Nicaragua in general. Dont let that statement deter you. I plan on spending a major part of my trip in Nica. What I have seen is awesomely beautiful and he people are great... but dang poor.

I haven't been there, but from what I have read, heard, and learned... I am going to avoid Mexico City. I do want to go south of the city to Popocatepetl Volcano. (look it up and go there.)

I'll agree with a previous statement that if you plan on sticking to the main roads.... while only occasionally going on tough-ish roads. A Toyota Hi-Ace might be the way to go.. 12 passenger van that can easily hold all the gear you need. I have been in a Hi-Ace that has done worse than this... http://youtube.com/watch?v=yHcc_VM8hbY . Well, it wasnt a Hi-Ace, but equally as nice, a Hyundai van that is the same setup as the HI-ACE with just about the same amount of support. Can be outfitted with snorkels and you can get them in 4wd. A friend of mine in Costa Rica has the Hyundai and he has put about 200,000miles (all in Costa Rica) without any problems. He takes very good care of his vehicle and is proud of it.

I totally agree with BruceNP...

People ride alone on motorcycles from the Prudoe Bay to the tip of Argentina, camping all the way, frequently alone and occasional female. It's not what you think according to your post. You need to get a couple good books on travel before you offend everyone where you are headed.

Your first post sent out a lot of bad vibes... you guys totally dont understand whats going on down there. Maybe you guys should take a short trip to Nicaragua and see what its really like. (PM me and I can hook you guys up with a decent tour guide).

 

[mauricio_28]

3votes Hi-Lux. They are dang common down there. They use them for everything. Tow trucks, fire trucks, ambulances... police cars... Get a blue or white one.

Toyota's Hilux is available in the Lousiana? Where did you manage to get a Diesel Frontier? I thought all diesel Nissan D40s are called Navara. Btw, I just took delivery of a TDI D40 Navara a week ago.

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Toyota's Hilux is available in the Lousiana? Where did you manage to get a Diesel Frontier? I thought all diesel Nissan D40s are called Navara. Btw, I just took delivery of a TDI D40 Navara a week ago.

No... I have been to Costa Rica several times.... and oogle over the vehicles down there....

I dont recall what they call the Frontiers... but its the same body style as the frontiers they have here. This is down in Costa Rica... not the US.

Its a shame that we cant get the diesel stuff here.

 

[jlit]

You guys do bring up very good points. We were thinking of going with tundras over tacomas mainly because of the power it's going to take to get through mountain ranges like those in bolivia, plus we need the maximum possible amount of storage space for all our gear. Film gear, communication gear, expedition gear, all-in-all, a metric ******* ton.

However, I think 3 important factors we would like for our vehicle are reliablility, diesel (if possible), and fixability. I thought a newer toyota would be best because it would have fewer breakdowns in the course of 3 years, please correct me if I'm wrong. Is the Hilux diesel? Also, we are setting up one large insurance plan here in california to cover people, equipment, and vehicle, and would it be an issue to register the hilux here in the US? I hear I can get a new one from guatemala, but where is the closest?

Also, I've barely heard anyone mention Land Rover. What do you guys think of newer rovers? Considering petrol, reliability, and fixability, do you think a land rover discovery is a good option? I really question whether it could be enough space.

 

[mauricio_28]

In Guatemala, the Hilux is diesel only. Another option in Guatemala is the diesel Nissan Pathfinder with the class-leading YD25DDTi Common-rail TDI engine, the same engine in my Navara.

 

[mauricio_28]

Hate to preach the Gospel according to Diesel, but here are other considerations:

Another thing, for hauling and towing loads and climbing you want torque rather than power (hp). Yet another characteristic/advantage of diesel engines is their higher torque at lower rpm. As a matter of comparison, the Nissan Frontier's V6 gasoline engine has less torque at higher RPM than the Navara's TDI engine which gives you peak torque as low as 2,000rpm. Personal experience with the YD25DDTi engine tells me that by 1,500rpm it is ready to pound on the anvil.

For descending when loaded to the hilt, you want to use the engine rather than relying on the brakes. A long enough descent with a ton and a half(literally) of gear and passengers will quickly kill your brakes. Engine braking/compression is much higher with diesel engines so a lot less application of the break is required.

Before buying a vehicle, do yourself a favor by driving a diesel-engine truck. For some of us, once you go diesel there's no going back to gasoline, especially with the new, quiet, clean-running diesel engines.

 

[canucksafari]

I am with Mauricio on the diesel. If some of your expedition members are Canadians, you can buy low kms (but 15 year old) JDM diesel 4x4s such as the Land Cruisers, Nissan Safaris (Patrols), and Mitsubishi Canters (Fusos). AFAIK, support for the Safaris does not exist in the USA or the USM but in Canada and the rest of the Americas parts are fairly easy to come by. Prices on the Safari are about 5-7 Gs below that of a comprable Land Cruiser. However, they need to be turboed. At any rate, it is a good idea to have the turbo rebuilt on any JDM turbocharged diesel.

You can also look at 25 year old JDM, Aussie or Kiwi diesel imports. It is difficult to find them in good condition with a good price.

Still, I think the small diesel school bus would be perfect. Doesn't have the cooool expedition factor but it does the budget and security just fine.

 

[BruceNP]

Also, I've barely heard anyone mention Land Rover. What do you guys think of newer rovers? Considering petrol, reliability, and fixability, do you think a land rover discovery is a good option? I really question whether it could be enough space.

The image a lot of people have about the Rover, particularly older models is that the nightly repair in camp is as important to the user as the trip itself. You picture Rover drivers as a self-sufficient group who cheerfully reweld everything that broke during the day. People also talk about their "wet rovers", since having some sort of fluid leak is pretty much universal and most worry that a "dry rover" hasn't been properly taken care of or may be out of the "fluid of the day".

In reality, Rovers have gone more extensively that any other vehicles. Because of the vast number of miles traveled in remote places, a bunch have broken down, leading to the reputation. Though not quite as well engineered as the extremely durable Toyo Land Cruiser, they are still excellent and are the vehicle of choice it seems for some parts of Africa.

BUT .. even used, they are expensive. For cargo carrying capability, availability of diesel engines, ground clearance and 4WD, it's hard to beat a truck. The most widely used trucks in the world (standard pickup types) are probably Ford and Toyota. I'd consider a cab-forward design truck. Just as good of ground clearance, great visibility, great cargo capability. i.e.

 

[jlit]

Alright guys, we would love to do this expedition with 2 toyota hilux's. What is it going to take to get two new ones up here? The closest place we've found thus far is mexico city. Anyone know of anything closer to the border?

Also, there are some cool features of the tundra I can't find out about on the hilux. With the tundra, though automatic, can be driven like a standard. Seems very practical. Also, the rear crew cab window rolls down offering a lot of access to the back of the truck, also handy. I test drove a tundra today and was very impressed, especially with the turning radius.

How would you compare the tundra to the hilux? Also, storage space comparison?

thanks.

 

[mauricio_28]

Bottom line is you can't bring a diesel Hilux in to the States because it doesn't meet US emission standards. If it did, Toyota itself would likely bring it in itself.

AFAIK, Mexico is the only country where both Tundra/Tacoma and Hiluxes are sold. However, the 4WD TDI Hilux is not sold in Mexico. Guatemala is your closest outlet.

The Hilux is a work vehicle first, a lifestyle/adventure vehicle second. The Tundra/Tacoma are mindful of American preferences and tastes so they tend to be more "tricked-out" with mod-cons. The Tundra/Tacoma have to be mindful of the American truck competition so they have to make concessions in order to appeal to American tastes. The HiLux is not constrained by American tastes.

A rule of thumb when you're going off the deep end is that you want to avoid the "neat features" and the gimmicks. You want fewer, simpler things to break down.

 

[charlieaarons]

Alright guys, we would love to do this expedition with 2 toyota hilux's. What is it going to take to get two new ones up here? The closest place we've found thus far is mexico city. Anyone know of anything closer to the border?

Are you going to do this trip with what some people you've never met tell you is the best? Why don't you sit down and really think about things, like whether you are going to sleep in the vehclce, beside the vehicle, or in (hard to find, especially when on bicycles) lodgings?
If sleep-beside, smaller rigs are fine.
If sleep-in, maybe think about at least one large rig (Class 6 or 7).

Do some thinking, don't just act upon a bunch of randomly gathered ideas on the Internet.

Charlie

 

[LaOutbackTrail]

Are you going to do this trip with what some people you've never met tell you is the best? Why don't you sit down and really think about things, like whether you are going to sleep in the vehclce, beside the vehicle, or in (hard to find, especially when on bicycles) lodgings?
If sleep-beside, smaller rigs are fine.
If sleep-in, maybe think about at least one large rig (Class 6 or 7).

Do some thinking, don't just act upon a bunch of randomly gathered ideas on the Internet.

Charlie

He has asked us what we think. We are giving him great ideas for what he has asked for.

Mauricio is right. The Hi-Lux is a work horse. I believe they are about the size of the tacoma, but have an oversized (I believe) frame which if I remember correctly is a 1ton equivalent frame. Toyota made some 1ton framed pickups in the 70s... The con to having this heavy frame is that it wont have the plush ride that the tundras have... but considering it is a vehicle that is found in almost all of Latin America is a major plus. Sure, the Tundras have plenty of power (hp) and gizmos, but for your trip... the less to break the better. There are a bunch of cons that you need to consider by doing your own research on whatever vehicle you choose. I dont remember where you guys are starting at? What state? If any of your team members are in Canada... go to Guatemala and drive a hilux back to Canada to be customized.

You may even want to consider a Ford F250-F450 with a camper... or heck.... spend the money on a custom EarthRoamer . Emphasize sleeping for 5 and storage. Less on the stuff like sinks, fridges, stoves, etc. When you dont eat the super cheap food in the americas... you'll be able to use small stoves for the times you cook out and about...

My dad got an award from Ford for putting 4million miles on several fords over the years. His most recent Ford, a 2003 F250 has 300,000 on it (now my cousin's truck). No major problems other than maintenance (which included replacing parts, rebuilding the turbo, etc.

We are mearly offering suggestions based on what you have said you need/want.

my quarters worth ($0.25)