This truck is unbelievable good

[gabrielef]

So I chatted with my buddy at the custom Land Rover shop today and he was giving props to the Taco TRD Pro’s suspension and rear-diff option. He said it’s crawl mode is awesome and could pretty much get out of anything and it’s all purely computer controlled. He mentioned getting is y buried up to the axles and it being able to get itself unstuck and out in that crawl mode. He thought any comparison between it and a the new Defender would simply come down to the terrain and driver.


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[I Leak Oil]

I love classic vehicles, and I'm a huge series rover maniac. I don't care for the new LR product. But LR traction control is bar none the best out there.
My Tacoma TRD Offroad is nice, does well but it still feels clunky and archaic compared to the newer LR products.
I just can't get past the mini-van look and feel.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Toyota guys are always going to justify paying $17k for a rig with 300k miles on it because it will “hold its value”.

I welcome Land Rover’s depreciation, I paid $5k for my 08 LR3, and less than that for 2 D1’s, and D2, and a RRC all put together. We paid $26k for my wife’s 08 RRSC, which had a sticker of $98k.

As far as ”reliability” goes, the stuff that has been replaced on the 08’s has been general wear and tear stuff. Radiator, alternator, battery, AC compressor, brake pads, tires.

I do agree that Land Rover has been leaning on “driver aids” but some of the stuff skill cannot make up for. The air suspension is unbelievable how you can cruise 80 mph on the highway then push a button and add 2-3” of lift. Same for self-leveling after hooking up a heavy trailer. I know some of the land cruisers had a hydraulic system, but I don’t believe and of the Taco’s and 4 runners do.

I fell into underwater ruts that weren’t there the last trip with my 3 year old in the car, and immediately became high centered across the whole undercarriage. With IFS/IRS, and the air suspension, I was able to force it into extended height and back out of it. Yes the driver skill of hugging the sides on the ruts, working the wheel, etc came into play then, but with a leaf sprung live axle rig I would have been screwed.

All that being said, drive what you want and I can’t stomach the looks of the D5

 

[A.J.M]

The D5 looks better in darker colours.
Purely as it hides a lot of the awful styling of it.

I really like the interior of it but the exterior is a mess and it’s the first modern LR that I don’t like.

There are many owners in my landy club with both modern and older models.

They need driven in different ways to get the best from them, both have strengths and weaknesses.

My D3 would walk over some sections that would cross axel an older one and leave it stuck.

We don’t get that Toyota model here so can’t say anything about it.

 

[DieselRanger]

I'll play. I've had a 2014 trd offroad since new and now also have a 2017 td6 disco no rear locker. The taco has 140k, never had any problems but have replaced all suspension, tough dog sdjustable front coils, uca, iron man leaf springs and fox adjustable remote res rears. Also bigger duratracs, skid plates, winch and more. The disco on Michelin defenders goes over terrain stock that the taco works for plus way faster on wash board and carries a bigger load. 24 mpg mixed driving. Time will tell how the reliability is but judging from past work done it hasn't had any real problems.

Mine has 47,000 miles on it, has been rock solid. One issue that required software update to fix but never would have stranded me, and an RF module for the keyless start that took the dealer less than an hour to fix, also wouldn't strand me.

33" AT tires - not even very aggressive ones - and it walks up terrain my buddy's Raptor and another friend's 4 Runner SR5 with 34's both struggle on. I think the turbodiesel helps, especially at 10,000+ feet, but I don't have a rear locker either, just low range and a computer. I personally don't care if that makes it easier. When I want off-roading to be hard, I use something with pedals.

 

[onemanarmy]

Finally, you go configure a base Defender P300 with cloth seats, no heated seats, no sunroof, steel wheels, with the offroad and capability package for $55K out the door. And it carries 2K lbs of cargo, passengers, gear, etc. A Taco with its V6 just can’t keep up. That’s why you see Tacoma owners flashing their ECU’s with a better tune or installing Pedal Commander. Because the truck is lethargic otherwise.

I’d take capability over value any day because the rig I buy I keep for a long time and don’t plan on selling. Value isn’t important to me in that respect.

My fancy, geewhiz, 2006 offroad technology (which they used in the L319 until 2016) in my LR3 has me at 285K miles, I bought it at 74K miles. It’s turning out to be one of the best platforms LR ever released.

All this to say a Tacoma is what it is and fits some people’s mission profile for fun. Great. But if they want to do more, with better performance, better traction control, better comfort, then they need to find another platform in like an LC or Defender.


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I guess JLR reliabilty has gone from abysmal to laughable. That's something.
Sure, you still see the occasional high mileage Rover product out there, just like you see the rare Dodge Intrepid or old Kia running around....a treat to see them now! One or two made it the distance. Glad yours made it.
The defender and the tacoma shouldn't be compared anyways, one is a truck and one is an SUV. No one is out comparing a Tahoe to a F150. They are built different for different uses.
My entire point, and to use the word the OP used......'good' to describe an 'offroad' biased Rover.....is that what if they focused on greatness and dependability and reliability instead of (and this is the base model Defender standard list


LED Headlights

• Privacy Glass
• Standard Roof
• Body-colored Roof
• Signature Graphic (with interior storage)
• Automatic Headlight Leveling
• Solar Attenuating Windshield
• LED Tail Lights
• Electric Parking Brake (EPB)
• Brake Pad Wear Indicator
• Emergency Brake Assist
• Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
• Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
• Electric Windows with One-touch Open/Close and Anti-trap
• Heated Rear Window with Timer
• Rear Wash Wiper
• Alpine Lights
• Puddle Lights
• Automatic Headlights and Rain Sensing Wipers
• Rear Fog Lights
• Follow Me Home Lighting
• Center High-mounted Stop Light
• Side-hinged Tailgate
• Heated, Electric, Power Fold Door Mirrors with Approach Lights and Auto-dimming Driver Side

Just think of how much more reliable, cheaper, easier to build and maintain, and longer lasting the vehicle would be without all that stuff? When are they going to try and reverse the incredibly negative image that most of the world has about JLR and the crap they make?
Do screens, rain sensing wipers, puddle lights, electric parking brake, headlight leveling, LED taillights, and all that side mirror crap make the vehicle any better offroad, more reliable, cheaper, and from good to great? All that stuff takes $$$millions to talk about, design, source, build, test, and stock parts for, and introduces failure points. Why tie the headlights and taillights into an ECU? Just have a on/off switch. Costs $5.
I'm glad every vehicle you buy new you keep forever, but most people don't, and that factors alot into buying decisions.

And air suspension? I hate that the most. Solid axles, coil suspension with top tier shocks, a crash tested body and all the safety stuff, and simple knobs for the radio and HVAC, elocker(s), and focus on long term reliability. This is a DEFENDER.....not the other 10 luxury models they already make.

Sweet! an interior graphic and cool roof paint......that does nothing at all.

 

[XJLI]

LED Headlights

• Privacy Glass
• Standard Roof
• Body-colored Roof
• Signature Graphic (with interior storage)
• Automatic Headlight Leveling
• Solar Attenuating Windshield
• LED Tail Lights
• Electric Parking Brake (EPB)
• Brake Pad Wear Indicator
• Emergency Brake Assist
• Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
• Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
• Electric Windows with One-touch Open/Close and Anti-trap
• Heated Rear Window with Timer
• Rear Wash Wiper
• Alpine Lights
• Puddle Lights
• Automatic Headlights and Rain Sensing Wipers
• Rear Fog Lights
• Follow Me Home Lighting
• Center High-mounted Stop Light
• Side-hinged Tailgate
• Heated, Electric, Power Fold Door Mirrors with Approach Lights and Auto-dimming Driver Side

Most of that stuff comes standard on a 2021 base model compact Kia/Honda whatever too.

people who want “old reliable trucks” can buy them. Prices are going up on those too. You can get a nice LC80 for the same price as a used D5 and the D5 is going to be a LOT nicer to drive every day.

 

[gabrielef]

I guess JLR reliabilty has gone from abysmal to laughable. That's something.
Sure, you still see the occasional high mileage Rover product out there, just like you see the rare Dodge Intrepid or old Kia running around....a treat to see them now! One or two made it the distance. Glad yours made it.
The defender and the tacoma shouldn't be compared anyways, one is a truck and one is an SUV. No one is out comparing a Tahoe to a F150. They are built different for different uses.
My entire point, and to use the word the OP used......'good' to describe an 'offroad' biased Rover.....is that what if they focused on greatness and dependability and reliability instead of (and this is the base model Defender standard list


LED Headlights

• Privacy Glass
• Standard Roof
• Body-colored Roof
• Signature Graphic (with interior storage)
• Automatic Headlight Leveling
• Solar Attenuating Windshield
• LED Tail Lights
• Electric Parking Brake (EPB)
• Brake Pad Wear Indicator
• Emergency Brake Assist
• Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
• Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
• Electric Windows with One-touch Open/Close and Anti-trap
• Heated Rear Window with Timer
• Rear Wash Wiper
• Alpine Lights
• Puddle Lights
• Automatic Headlights and Rain Sensing Wipers
• Rear Fog Lights
• Follow Me Home Lighting
• Center High-mounted Stop Light
• Side-hinged Tailgate
• Heated, Electric, Power Fold Door Mirrors with Approach Lights and Auto-dimming Driver Side

Just think of how much more reliable, cheaper, easier to build and maintain, and longer lasting the vehicle would be without all that stuff? When are they going to try and reverse the incredibly negative image that most of the world has about JLR and the crap they make?
Do screens, rain sensing wipers, puddle lights, electric parking brake, headlight leveling, LED taillights, and all that side mirror crap make the vehicle any better offroad, more reliable, cheaper, and from good to great? All that stuff takes $$$millions to talk about, design, source, build, test, and stock parts for, and introduces failure points. Why tie the headlights and taillights into an ECU? Just have a on/off switch. Costs $5.
I'm glad every vehicle you buy new you keep forever, but most people don't, and that factors alot into buying decisions.

And air suspension? I hate that the most. Solid axles, coil suspension with top tier shocks, a crash tested body and all the safety stuff, and simple knobs for the radio and HVAC, elocker(s), and focus on long term reliability. This is a DEFENDER.....not the other 10 luxury models they already make.

Sweet! an interior graphic and cool roof paint......that does nothing at all.

Times are changing, time to get used to it.


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[A.J.M]

Onemanarmy.

You do of course realise that many of the safety aids are legal requirements now.
And some of the complaints are bits that are a nod to the classic Defender… which you then listed as being everything you wanted.


The reality is, the markets and legislation have changed since the 90 was launched in 83.

It’s 2021 so cars have to meet 2021 standards, laws and regulations.

We are in Euro 6 emissions regulations.
There are changes for safety coming in next year making reverse sensors and blind spot monitoring a legal requirement for all makes and models.

Plus the clients have changed.
Bluetooth is now essential for making calls on the move as in the U.K. it’s illegal to use a phone while driving.
So you need that fitted, plus steering wheel controls etc. Otherwise it’s 6 penalty points on your licence and up to a £1000 fine.
The points affect your insurance for 3-4 years a

When I buy my new Defender 110.
It has to do everything.
Daily driver, family car, off roader, tow car, work horse. The lot.
I want it to be comfortable, safe and well equipped for the many years I’ll have it.

much like my D3.
HSE spec so fully loaded, it’s 16 years old and all the kit works perfectly and it’s made it a lovely car to own for the past 9 years.

 

[Carson G]

I guess JLR reliabilty has gone from abysmal to laughable. That's something.
Sure, you still see the occasional high mileage Rover product out there, just like you see the rare Dodge Intrepid or old Kia running around....a treat to see them now! One or two made it the distance. Glad yours made it.
The defender and the tacoma shouldn't be compared anyways, one is a truck and one is an SUV. No one is out comparing a Tahoe to a F150. They are built different for different uses.
My entire point, and to use the word the OP used......'good' to describe an 'offroad' biased Rover.....is that what if they focused on greatness and dependability and reliability instead of (and this is the base model Defender standard list


LED Headlights

• Privacy Glass
• Standard Roof
• Body-colored Roof
• Signature Graphic (with interior storage)
• Automatic Headlight Leveling
• Solar Attenuating Windshield
• LED Tail Lights
• Electric Parking Brake (EPB)
• Brake Pad Wear Indicator
• Emergency Brake Assist
• Anti-lock Braking System (ABS)
• Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
• Electric Windows with One-touch Open/Close and Anti-trap
• Heated Rear Window with Timer
• Rear Wash Wiper
• Alpine Lights
• Puddle Lights
• Automatic Headlights and Rain Sensing Wipers
• Rear Fog Lights
• Follow Me Home Lighting
• Center High-mounted Stop Light
• Side-hinged Tailgate
• Heated, Electric, Power Fold Door Mirrors with Approach Lights and Auto-dimming Driver Side

Just think of how much more reliable, cheaper, easier to build and maintain, and longer lasting the vehicle would be without all that stuff? When are they going to try and reverse the incredibly negative image that most of the world has about JLR and the crap they make?
Do screens, rain sensing wipers, puddle lights, electric parking brake, headlight leveling, LED taillights, and all that side mirror crap make the vehicle any better offroad, more reliable, cheaper, and from good to great? All that stuff takes $$$millions to talk about, design, source, build, test, and stock parts for, and introduces failure points. Why tie the headlights and taillights into an ECU? Just have a on/off switch. Costs $5.
I'm glad every vehicle you buy new you keep forever, but most people don't, and that factors alot into buying decisions.

And air suspension? I hate that the most. Solid axles, coil suspension with top tier shocks, a crash tested body and all the safety stuff, and simple knobs for the radio and HVAC, elocker(s), and focus on long term reliability. This is a DEFENDER.....not the other 10 luxury models they already make.

Sweet! an interior graphic and cool roof paint......that does nothing at all.

Actually I see LR3/4’s with 3-400k on them all the time like 3-5 a week. I’ve even seen one in the UK that’s closing in on a million miles.

 

[DieselRanger]

Onemanarmy.

You do of course realise that ...

Don't bother, he doesn't care.

 

[gabrielef]

Don't bother, he doesn't care.

I wonder why he even commented or follows this thread??


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[onemanarmy]

Onemanarmy.

You do of course realise that many of the safety aids are legal requirements now.
And some of the complaints are bits that are a nod to the classic Defender… which you then listed as being everything you wanted.


The reality is, the markets and legislation have changed since the 90 was launched in 83.

It’s 2021 so cars have to meet 2021 standards, laws and regulations.

We are in Euro 6 emissions regulations.
There are changes for safety coming in next year making reverse sensors and blind spot monitoring a legal requirement for all makes and models.

Plus the clients have changed.
Bluetooth is now essential for making calls on the move as in the U.K. it’s illegal to use a phone while driving.
So you need that fitted, plus steering wheel controls etc. Otherwise it’s 6 penalty points on your licence and up to a £1000 fine.
The points affect your insurance for 3-4 years a

When I buy my new Defender 110.
It has to do everything.
Daily driver, family car, off roader, tow car, work horse. The lot.
I want it to be comfortable, safe and well equipped for the many years I’ll have it.

much like my D3.
HSE spec so fully loaded, it’s 16 years old and all the kit works perfectly and it’s made it a lovely car to own for the past 9 years.

I EXPLICITLY mentioned the safety and emissions. Everyone knows that has to stay. That was and never has been a sticking point with me. It's like my posts aren't read fully....the Rover koolaid is thick in your blood.

I don't care that over engineered and designed screens, headlights, and taillights are standard on any other model.....those are throw away cars. I'm still not sure why base model anything has more than power windows, locks, an easily replaceable double din radio, and basic HVAC. It would be cheaper and more reliable and function the same....what most people buying cheap cars are after.....cheap and reliable.

You don't need frivolous "nods" to the old model if you make it more LIKE the old model. Everyone would know instantly what it is.

My point is, and I typed it numerous times, is that for the Defender (and to a point the Disco), give it only what it needs, nothing it doesn't, and focus on making the truck the best it can be. Without 25 ECUs, air suspension, fancy headlights and taillights, over complicated side mirrors, parking sensors, puddle lights, automatic anything, overstyled plastic body with integrated lights (no doubt big money to fix), fully integrated screen/radio/hvac/etc,......JLR can focus on what really matters.

As a start: Give it a Double din radio/screen that can be easily upgraded and modified, simple separate mechanical levers for the HVAC that last 30 years and when they do break its $5 to fix, and on/off switches for everything else. For sure, get rid of that rear view mirror/camera thing....that's gonna crap out for sure. Maybe cheaper/less integrated headlights and taillights (ala Wrangler).....I can't imagine how expensive those are to design/make/test/install and fix when you nick a tree...you know, when using it as intended. THEN: Its cheaper to make, cheaper to own, more reliable, and doesn't change how you can use the vehicle. Or safety. Or convivence.

They went SO FAR the wrong way...so much plastic and swooping lines and LEDs and gadgets, that just aren't needed. Want gadgets and insane depreciation? Get a Disco or any of the other JLR models already made.

They could have made it for $10k less, sell it for $5k less and make EVEN MORE MONEY. Win win. Which is the name of the game, right?

 

[onemanarmy]

I wonder why he even commented or follows this thread??


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Pretty big older Rover fan. I'd like to have a manual disco 1 or a older defender. I follow all the new makes and models, hoping someone comes along and knocks it out of the park. JLR isn't the only make to crap on a fabled nameplate. I just can't figure out why.

 

[Eniam17]

I loved my 89 classic …. And my previous lr3 and current d5 blow the doors off it in every way other than “it’s an antique.” Way better on road , better towing , better payload, better interior , reliability not even in the same ballpark , and stock for stock the 3 or the 5 walk all over a stock classic, d1, or yes I’ll say it a stock d90 . Yes ive owned the Older ones and off-roaded with them all as well. It’s not even a competition. If you want 25 year old vehicles , feel free to go buy one but don’t expect manufacturers to be stuck in the Stone Age and still sell vehicles .