This truck is unbelievable good

[A.J.M]

Wow.

your attitude is why LR got wiped out by the competition years ago.

no innovation, just keep churning out the same old crap regardless of what the completion are doing.
A few years ago I was at a farmers show, the biggest in Scotland.
A farmer looked at a 90 hardtop, Betty basics like you want and claim is all anyone needs.
He asked his mate, why should I pay £25 grand for that when it doesn’t come with a radio or electric windows, when for £22 grand, I can get an L200 which has a radio, air con, electric windows, and still can tow the same 3.5 tons.

Anyway, a real Land Rover is a 80”.
Metal dash, drum brakes, leaf springs, no heater, no synchro on 1st and 2nd.
Everything after that is for soft people and wusses.

 

[XJLI]

I EXPLICITLY mentioned the safety and emissions. Everyone knows that has to stay. That was and never has been a sticking point with me. It's like my posts aren't read fully....the Rover koolaid is thick in your blood.

I don't care that over engineered and designed screens, headlights, and taillights are standard on any other model.....those are throw away cars. I'm still not sure why base model anything has more than power windows, locks, an easily replaceable double din radio, and basic HVAC. It would be cheaper and more reliable and function the same....what most people buying cheap cars are after.....cheap and reliable.

You don't need frivolous "nods" to the old model if you make it more LIKE the old model. Everyone would know instantly what it is.

My point is, and I typed it numerous times, is that for the Defender (and to a point the Disco), give it only what it needs, nothing it doesn't, and focus on making the truck the best it can be. Without 25 ECUs, air suspension, fancy headlights and taillights, over complicated side mirrors, parking sensors, puddle lights, automatic anything, overstyled plastic body with integrated lights (no doubt big money to fix), fully integrated screen/radio/hvac/etc,......JLR can focus on what really matters.

As a start: Give it a Double din radio/screen that can be easily upgraded and modified, simple separate mechanical levers for the HVAC that last 30 years and when they do break its $5 to fix, and on/off switches for everything else. For sure, get rid of that rear view mirror/camera thing....that's gonna crap out for sure. Maybe cheaper/less integrated headlights and taillights (ala Wrangler).....I can't imagine how expensive those are to design/make/test/install and fix when you nick a tree...you know, when using it as intended. THEN: Its cheaper to make, cheaper to own, more reliable, and doesn't change how you can use the vehicle. Or safety. Or convivence.

They went SO FAR the wrong way...so much plastic and swooping lines and LEDs and gadgets, that just aren't needed. Want gadgets and insane depreciation? Get a Disco or any of the other JLR models already made.

They could have made it for $10k less, sell it for $5k less and make EVEN MORE MONEY. Win win. Which is the name of the game, right?

you can ask this of any manufacturer, and it ain’t gonna happen… in the US market at least. Fortunately enough, a lot of this new gadgetry is pretty reliable, it’s just the wiring between them that can make or break a vehicle. Unfortunately, that isn’t JLR’s forte either.

Lots of us in the subforum have been taken advantage of this “perceived unreliability” of modern Rovers by being able to get really nice trucks for cheap. Now due to many factors, that ship has sailed. I could sell my LR4 I bought 7 months ago for a couple grand profit. Hopefully prices settle down by next year.

 

[onemanarmy]

I loved my 89 classic …. And my previous lr3 and current d5 blow the doors off it in every way other than “it’s an antique.” Way better on road , better towing , better payload, better interior , reliability not even in the same ballpark , and stock for stock the 3 or the 5 walk all over a stock classic, d1, or yes I’ll say it a stock d90 . Yes ive owned the Older ones and off-roaded with them all as well. It’s not even a competition. If you want 25 year old vehicles , feel free to go buy one but don’t expect manufacturers to be stuck in the Stone Age and still sell vehicles .

you completely missed the mark. I don't want a 25 year old vehicle as a DD today. I have old vehicles. I don't want another antique.
What I want, and what they could make cheaply and sell, is a NEW, UPDATED Range Rover Classic/Defender/Discovery. Fully 3D designed and crash tested body on a modern designed coil spring/solid axle suspension, all the passenger airbags, all new modern seats, seals, materials and insulation. Modern glass. Modern engine (ideally normally aspirated) and 8 speed trans, newest HVAC equipment, but still operated by manual levers. New and updated power window and lock mechanisms, that are designed to last 25 years. No plastic bearings, gears, or bushings. A double din radio/screen, that is just a radio. Don't tie it all together. Normal side view and rear view mirrors. Cheap and easy to replace headlights and taillights. Make them LED for all I care, but don't wrap them into the body work with fancy un-needed designs.....that costs more up front and costs me more as an owner. So why do it? That adds nothing to the use of the truck, dependability or reliability. So why do it? No 'puddle' lights, no digital gauge clusters, no air suspension, no 3 million 'terrain' modes, true disconnects on the front axle for less wear and tear and better MPG, less swoopy/low hanging/plastic body work, and add real lockers. Nothing about that is stone age. It would do everything you need and then some, in comfort and ruggedness. Focus on payload, engine reliability, brakes, and wear items in order to make them as robust as possible. Take all that money and engineering brain power that was used on all that unnecessary crap and put it to use on the things that can reverse the negative image of JLR models.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

you completely missed the mark. I don't want a 25 year old vehicle as a DD today. I have old vehicles. I don't want another antique.
What I want, and what they could make cheaply and sell, is a NEW, UPDATED Range Rover Classic/Defender/Discovery. Fully 3D designed and crash tested body on a modern designed coil spring/solid axle suspension, all the passenger airbags, all new modern seats, seals, materials and insulation. Modern glass. Modern engine (ideally normally aspirated) and 8 speed trans, newest HVAC equipment, but still operated by manual levers. New and updated power window and lock mechanisms, that are designed to last 25 years. No plastic bearings, gears, or bushings. A double din radio/screen, that is just a radio. Don't tie it all together. Normal side view and rear view mirrors. Cheap and easy to replace headlights and taillights. Make them LED for all I care, but don't wrap them into the body work with fancy un-needed designs.....that costs more up front and costs me more as an owner. So why do it? That adds nothing to the use of the truck, dependability or reliability. So why do it? No 'puddle' lights, no digital gauge clusters, no air suspension, no 3 million 'terrain' modes, true disconnects on the front axle for less wear and tear and better MPG, less swoopy/low hanging/plastic body work, and add real lockers. Nothing about that is stone age. It would do everything you need and then some, in comfort and ruggedness. Focus on payload, engine reliability, brakes, and wear items in order to make them as robust as possible. Take all that money and engineering brain power that was used on all that unnecessary crap and put it to use on the things that can reverse the negative image of JLR models.

Go buy a Jeep then, there are plenty of them out there. IMO they are more likely to leave you stranded than any Rover product with the exception of a D2.

FWIW, I’m about halfway between what you want and what the new Defender is. Since the original Range Rover, Land Rover has been a balance of function and luxury. I believe the LR3 is the peak of utilitarian comfort, it continues to impress me the more I use it.

I take no issue with technology that adds real value, the air suspension is phenomena, and stuff that many people consider “unproven tech” has been is use by LR for 25 years now. I am not thrilled with gimmicky stuff made to make millenials go “ooh, aah”, like they seem to be doing lately.

The fact of the matter is most people aren’t going to Africa for 3 month, and coil springs still break. If you don’t drive a common platform to the area with spare parts on every corner, you’re SOL anyway

 

[DieselRanger]

Go buy a Jeep then, there are plenty of them out there. IMO they are more likely to leave you stranded than any Rover product with the exception of a D2.

Yeah, because Jeeps don't have any ECUs or fancy E-lectronic giz-whangs. @onemanarmy just doesn't understand what it takes to build and certify vehicles today. Even the Land Cruiser is gone from US shores now, and that was basically only what you need, and nothing you don't. Recall we had a 200-page thread about this already - not going to get anywhere new if this one goes that way. @onemanarmy hates new Land Rovers, got it. Many thousands of new and prospective Land Rover Defender owners do not. Next thread, next discussion.

 

[OllieChristopher]

And while It's more driver than vehicle the, brand and style are very personalized. I don't understand how someone can hate a vehicle without ever experiencing it?

I don't want a 25 year old vehicle as a DD today. I have old vehicles. I don't want another antique.
What I want, and what they could make cheaply and sell, is a NEW, UPDATED Range Rover Classic/Defender/Discovery. Fully 3D designed and crash tested body on a modern designed coil spring/solid axle suspension, all the passenger airbags, all new modern seats, seals, materials and insulation. Modern glass. Modern engine (ideally normally aspirated) and 8 speed trans, newest HVAC equipment, but still operated by manual levers. New and updated power window and lock mechanisms, that are designed to last 25 years.

You are going to be hard pressed to find any vehicle manufactured today that has those features regardless of cost. The OP is very happy with his purchase and found the vehicle that he likes. If it inspires confidence then who are we to argue or make light of his rig.

I personally like all these new electronic features and driver aids. I'm more of a 2 wheel guy. And my truck is very conservative with 2wd, TruTrac, and 5 speed manual. It amazingly gets me where I need to go off road.

 

[Todd780]

Even the Land Cruiser is gone from US shores now, and that was basically only what you need, and nothing you don't.

You mustn't be referring to the 200 series. That thing was a luxo-barge. I don't believe that was a 'nothing you don't' vehicle either....

Now the bare bones 200's they sold in the Middle East and Australia maybe...

 

[Eniam17]

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, and I’d love it if they still made vehicles like you’re describing. I’d love an updated but not too updated version of a D1 or RRC. My point was that the world has changed and there is not a big enough market for those vehicles anymore (the original defender, Toyota land cruiser, etc) in developed nations that drive sales. It’s sad and frustrating as an enthusiast but nothing we can do. I‘m trying to look on the bright side regarding the many things I enjoy about my previous LR3 and current discovery, that’s all.

 

[llamalander]

I wonder about the "nothing we can do" part.
The chicken tax perhaps has outlived its useful lifespan, maybe we could work to cut down the number of years we need to wait to import vehicles that no company bothers to sell here?
Obviously the country is short on vehicles, and the world is full of no-frills utilitarian rigs for bad roads that couldn't threaten domestic manufacturers because those folks don't even make something to compete in that market.
Never mind trying to convince an auto company to bring the rig you want here, try convincing the legislator who keeps those rigs out to drop the rope-- probably a much better use of effort & attention.

Back on topic, I would personally love to try out one of the new defenders, may go back to Carmel for a go in one. I abhor car tech that panders to people's inattention (lane keeping, autopilot, etc.), I don't see that happening with advanced traction control, terrain settings and the like, people are just as engaged with the trail and none of it will actually save you from the physics of being an idiot.

 

[Todd780]

I wonder about the "nothing we can do" part.
The chicken tax perhaps has outlived its useful lifespan

But it's still a revenue stream for the Government....... They aren't going to want to give it up.

 

[DieselRanger]

You mustn't be referring to the 200 series. That thing was a luxo-barge. I don't believe that was a 'nothing you don't' vehicle either....

Now the bare bones 200's they sold in the Middle East and Australia maybe...

View attachment 666396

I am indeed referring to the LC200. I would agree it was massively over-priced for a 12-year-old vehicle, but if you set the price aside and look at the equipment, it's precisely what @onemanarmy is looking for: naturally aspirated V8, body on frame, solid rear axle, 18inch wheels, locking center diff, steel coil suspension, no fancy technological wizardry beyond push button activation of low range and locking behavior. You can add on all manner of extras including ARB rear locker, lift, blah blah blah.

In other words, a dinosaur.

 

[Todd780]

I am indeed referring to the LC200. I would agree it was massively over-priced for a 12-year-old vehicle, but if you set the price aside and look at the equipment, it's precisely what @onemanarmy is looking for: naturally aspirated V8, body on frame, solid rear axle, 18inch wheels, locking center diff, steel coil suspension, no fancy technological wizardry beyond push button activation of low range and locking behavior. You can add on all manner of extras including ARB rear locker, lift, blah blah blah.

In other words, a dinosaur.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't it come standard with things like heated / cooling / massaging seats, Sunroof and a bunch of other luxuries?

I'm thinking from that stand point, it's similar to a new Defender, no?

 

[DieselRanger]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't it come standard with things like heated / cooling / massaging seats, Sunroof and a bunch of other luxuries?

I'm thinking from that stand point, it's similar to a new Defender, no?

Price wise it's about $10-12K more than a sufficiently-equipped new Defender 110, and yes, it has all those things (not sure about massage seats), but I don't think that's the main concern of some vs the Defender. mechanically it is what it was ~25 years ago.

 

[OllieChristopher]

The manufacturers dont care what you want. They only care if you dont buy their products.
If you cant buy the barebones thirdworld buggy of your dreams. Like it or not, you pretty much have to settle for whats available.
Manufacturers work hard to keep it that way.

That is a very puzzling statement. Manufacturers have to care what the end user wants. If they don't then vehicles don't sell. The hot selling models move quick. No one ever has to "settle" for a new vehicle. There are so many choices it's mind boggling.

 

[toylandcruiser]

But it does threaten domestic manufacturing.
The manufacturers dont care what you want. They only care if you dont buy their products.
If you cant buy the barebones thirdworld buggy of your dreams. Like it or not, you pretty much have to settle for whats available.
Manufacturers work hard to keep it that way.

It’s a big conspiracy