Thoughts on Transplants- 300Tdi vs. 3.9 v8

[Snagger]

What have you driven other than Rovers? The V8 is a DOG. The most powerful version makes a paltry 217hp from 4.6L. In the 90's, the 4.0 produced 190 hp, meanwhile GM was putting the 5.7L in trucks with 255hp, more torque, and better fuel economy to boot. Even GM's base model full-size truck engine, the 4.3L V6 was putting out 200hp and more torque.

So GM make an engine with nearly 50% larger capacity but only squeezed about 20% more power from it? Hardly something to boast about. And how much of its greater power/torque would be required just to pull the extra weight of the bigger engine and uprated suspension, and just how much rougher was that commercial truck engine? As for what other vehicles I have driven, plenty of non 4wd, but that's irrelevant. Other 4wd vehicles are also irrelevant - this discussion is about re-engining a Land Rover vehicle, so what is your point, other than misdirected, vitriolic, "I know better than you" posturing.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

I agree to some degree Snagger. I have read nothing good about using thicker fuels (for lack of a better term) in 300 Tdis. Also, not sure how readily available Used Motor Oil is on an expedition, lest you Get stuck, drain all the oil from your mates truck and abandon that truck on the trail!!

Seriously, from most I can read, the simplicity (drive by wire) or reliability of a 300Tdi is about the most "sane" reason to transplant.

D

 

[REDROVER]

ok lets make this str8. every mechanic shop i walked in so far. they are more than happy to give away that used motor oil. ( in fact they are very surprised and they wanna see it themselves

yes u can blend vegi oil with diesel. and it will work fine. in fact better than regular diesel. why? because diesel #2 has very low sulfur. and almost any diesel injection pump likes to be more lubricated. that's when used motor oil or vegi oil come in.

if u blend any of them with 50% diesel u wont even see smoke .

if tdi is direct injection so is 6.2 and it works fine

ERIC

 

[headdamage]

The 6.2 and 6.5 are indirect injection diesels.

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

The 6.2 and 6.5 are indirect injection diesels.

That is fine, but if you read my original title post- we are talking 300Tdi vs. V8. This alternative fuel source would have to be micro filtered to work in a 300 Tdi

Correct?

D

ps: Not excluding other diesel transplants - just speaking directly about the quirks, or specifics of the 300Tdi.

 

[Viggen]

ok lets make this str8. every mechanic shop i walked in so far. they are more than happy to give away that used motor oil. ( in fact they are very surprised and they wanna see it themselves

yes u can blend vegi oil with diesel. and it will work fine. in fact better than regular diesel. why? because diesel #2 has very low sulfur. and almost any diesel injection pump likes to be more lubricated. that's when used motor oil or vegi oil come in.

if u blend any of them with 50% diesel u wont even see smoke .

if tdi is direct injection so is 6.2 and it works fine

ERIC

Sorry but, as already pointed out, you have an indirect injection motor and probably an older inline style pump like I have. On another note, I will never run motor oil as a fuel. I dont care if you cannot see smoke or if you can, it is NOT good for the environment. There is SO much nasty CRAP in used motor oils (fuel, metals, carbon, soot, etc...). Not to mention that I am quite certain that burning used oil to fuel a vehicle is illegal. I think its okay in use as in a generator or heating device but not for vehicles themselves.



On a side note, AA has a kit that allows the 300tdi to be paired to a GM manual. I would put that motor and trans combo into any number of non Rover vehicles.

 

[Nonimouse]

As an aside I have a standard 75 litr tank in the 110 and I get almost 900kms to a tank on main roads... I have no issues with power, speed or keeping up with the traffic. I'd like better brakes though

 

[REDROVER]

environment is a different topic. as far as using motor oil as diesel fuel. yes it can be done with any diesel engine. ( that doesnt mean 100% oil in the tank)

if it doesn't smoke that means its atomizing right and burning right.

i pesonaly do see any reason why land rover diesel is a bad idea. or why it cant be run on many blends of other oils.

concept is the same for all diesel engines >> compression ignition <<<
ERIC

 

[Rocket Ship]

So GM make an engine with nearly 50% larger capacity but only squeezed about 20% more power from it? Hardly something to boast about. And how much of its greater power/torque would be required just to pull the extra weight of the bigger engine and uprated suspension, and just how much rougher was that commercial truck engine? As for what other vehicles I have driven, plenty of non 4wd, but that's irrelevant. Other 4wd vehicles are also irrelevant - this discussion is about re-engining a Land Rover vehicle, so what is your point, other than misdirected, vitriolic, "I know better than you" posturing.

HP/displacement is a completely meaningless measurement. That engine produces more power, more efficiently than the Rover V8. It weighs about 200lbs more than the Rover V8. Sure, 200lbs is not insubstantial, but it's not really a big deal. We're talking less than 5% of the total weight of a truck. Rough? We're not talking about a commercial engine here. This is the classic Small Block Chev. Used in everything, including the Cadillac Escalade.

There's no posturing here. Most Americans think the Rover V8 is a dog. You, do not. Obviously this is a question of opinion more than science although I did attempt to present some evidence to prove it is a dog. A person's opinion is based on comparison to other things they have driven, which is why I asked what you have driven, what are you comparing the Rover V8 to? I've driven a lot of vehicles, and my Disco is the slowest gas-engined vehicle I've driven since my days with crappy 80's econoboxes.

Is a Rover V8 engined truck faster than a 300tdi truck? Sure. But that's hardly an accomplishment.

 

[Yorker]

So GM make an engine with nearly 50% larger capacity but only squeezed about 20% more power from it? Hardly something to boast about. And how much of its greater power/torque would be required just to pull the extra weight of the bigger engine and uprated suspension, and just how much rougher was that commercial truck engine? As for what other vehicles I have driven, plenty of non 4wd, but that's irrelevant.

FWIW
The 5.7 isn't a commercial truck engine it is a light duty V8, like the Rover V8 is. The 5.7 certainly isn't any "rougher" and really isn't that much bigger(though ~200lbs heavier?) Generally speaking the Rover V8 is closer in performance to American 6 cylinder engines of the same era, nothing to get too excited about particularly when mated to an auto trans. On the other hand a Land Rover with a Rover V8 feels like a rocket ship when compared to one with the 2.25. :sombrero:

 

[junkyddog11]

I put the 300tdi in my RRC 'cause it was old, slow and smelly....just like me.
Shop girl has a V8 in her heap 'cause it's smooth, fast and loud......just like her.

Most of the conversions (approaching 2 dozen) I have done have been for differing reasons. None have been an issue. All have replaced V8's that have gone south for various reasons. If you take into consideration what it would cost to replace the V8 with a 4.6 or even rebuild, it makes the 300 closer to making sense ....if you don't mind being old, slow and smelly.

 

[dcwhybrew]

...Shop girl has a V8 in her heap 'cause it's smooth, fast and loud......just like her...

Those comments are worthless without pictures! HA!

 

[Nonimouse]

Might be worth pointing out here that the difference with being this side of the pond comapred to that side of the pond is just what is available.

I had a similar discussion with a Aussie on the LRAU forum about Isuzu 3.9's

Here our range of V8's is so different as is the range of RV8 tuning mods. I'm always amazed at why anyone over here buys in US lumps at all. A Nissan 4.2/4.5/4.7/5.0/5.2/5.7 V8 is cheap as chips, comes with lots of cams and is so reliable as to be boring. Same goes for Toyota. TVR lumps are well down on pennies now (330bhp from 5.0ltrs and still using RV8 parts is nice...

As for adding 5% to all up body weight :Wow1: That's just crazy. 200lbs or 95kgs (ish) is a lot of fuel, a lot of water or the dog and both kids! I've only got 2950kgs all up before I get a big fine and points on my licence/invalid insurance. That 95kgs is for important stuff, like bling lights, a 75ltr fridge freezer, a bat wing awning and that roof rack water carrier!

This is an overland forum about overlanding. Our only need for power is for getting over dunes. The rest of the time 35bhp/tonne surfices - that way our drive train is still in one piece at the end of the journey :xxrotflma

 

[Viggen]

As for adding 5% to all up body weight :Wow1: That's just crazy. 200lbs or 95kgs (ish) is a lot of fuel, a lot of water or the dog and both kids! I've only got 2950kgs all up before I get a big fine and points on my licence/invalid insurance. That 95kgs is for important stuff, like bling lights, a 75ltr fridge freezer, a bat wing awning and that roof rack water carrier!

Wait, you have to insure based on weight of the vehicle? Thats insane.

 

[Nonimouse]

Not quite

If we break the manufacturers specified max loads it's a crime. If this is found to be the case after an accident our inusrance is void; and if someone is hurt or injured because of it we need to buy soap on a rope. Most of our police have no idea what rules are but the guys that matter do

Mind you the law is flouted all the time by folk that don't care/don't know

Same goes for most European countries and a number round the world

For example max LR 110 roof load (inc rack) is 75kgs for EU with RoW being 150kgs

Under British law the same thing applies to non approved bolt on bits and some non OE bits (same in Germany, Spain, France etc). If you fit a set of OME +2" springs they have never been homologated for the vehicle - illegal on the road; but only likley to get fined etc if you have a crash that involves injury or death