Tire Carrier Hinges - again

[maXTERRA]

The latch I use is from Southco.
http://www.southco.com/products/a2-a7-over-center-lever-latches/a2-10-501-21.html
You can buy from Bisco Industries http://www.biscoind.com/index.html
Just enter the A2-10-501-21 in the 'enter a part number" box.

Seems like $68, which is way cheaper than some other distributors.

Oh, and I've had this on my vehicle (the first prototype) for almost 2 years now with spare tire & hi-lift on it with no discernable wear at all. I've tightened it up once as the swing was getting too free but that's it. Pretty bullutproof I think.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Thanks.

That led me to this one which I really like the looks of, except, it's die-cast zinc which isn't very confidence inspiring.

http://www.southco.com/products/a2-a7-over-center-lever-latches/a7-10-301-20.html

 

[pb_beaker]

soooooo many to chose from, how do i decide!?:Wow1:

 

[redthies]

Just to throw one more option into the mix, I picked up this hinge for $10 off ebay. It uses a delrin bushing and the inner sleeve takes a 5/8" bolt. I'll be using it in double shear, but instead of my carrier swinging out like a barn door it will swing up and over like a trap door

I just went to a spring shop and bought poly bushings and a piece of seamless tubing like in the pic above and made my own set-up. Works great!

 

[ScoutII]

I figured I would post up my findings for those who search.

The trailer spindle designs are fine for small tires or carriers that hold the tire close to the pivot point and have a good way to prevent wiggle.

Every picture I found shows how the spindle broke from wiggling front to back.
never did anyone report the failure while opening the carrier.

Next the weight rating. Your thinking a 1,000 to 1,750lbs trailer axle is way over kill for 200-300lbs of tire and gear, right? But we need to take into account the cantilever affect. Your basic cheater bar in action.
200lbs cantilever out 2 feet from the pivot doubles the weight to 400lbs and we not even off the driveway yet. Hang a 250lbs person off the end at 4' and that adds 1,000 lbs of force. Were good provided were in camp or on the driveway. Don't forget the trailer spindle in normal use has leaf springs and rubber tires to take up shock loads. So IMHO the trailer spindle is not a good choice. There is a company that just release there Switch Blade tire carrier and it uses 2.25" hinge pin in single shear.

What do you need? Short of two hinges like a door or gate, would be a hinge held in double shear. Look at a Warn tire carrier and you will see just that. In fact look at most every hinge application and you will see that.
Here are a few pictures as I know thats what everyone looks at.

 

[ScoutII]

Materials that can be used.

DOM tubing by the foot at http://www.wfoconcepts.com/cr/Tubing/3383 Plus they have a full machine shop and will work with you on what you need.

1.5" outside 1" inside. $9.50 a foot

1.75 outside 1.25 inside $12 a foot

2" outside 1.5" inside $14 a foot.

These can be used for the sleeve. FYI they will cut to size too, and use a lathe so it has a smooth cut if you ask.

Large bolts can be found locally. There is a place here that has up to 1.25 grade 8 bolts.

Bronze bushing can be purchase online at MSC industrial supply.

I listed thrush bearings too, for those who still want to add a real bearing. You will need to enter the part number then click on the big book page to see all the different sizes.

I plan on sleeving my bumper with some DOM and then build the carrier to ride on top of the bumper. The bolt will go through the bumper and the sleeve which will be held in double shear

 

[ntsqd]

Just like the leverage that the tire exerts changing with distance from the hinge point, so too will the strength and rigidity of the hinge increase as the distance between the top and bottom bearings/bushings increases. On the swinger side.

On the bumper side this is still true, but if the upper pivot point is not stiff relative to the bumper then you've gained very little.

I don't feel that needle thrust bearings have any place in this application. I design using flanged bronze bushings. That takes care of both pivot and thrust in one unit.

Dynamic loads must also be taken into consideration. A really rough rule of thumb is 3 times the mass. So that 200 lbs assembly just became 600 lbs in the bottom of that G-Out. Now factor that by the lever length and it gets ugly quick!

 

[ScoutII]

I like the flanged bronze bushings too, but don't have any real world experience with them in a tire carrier. I just wanted leave the option open to use a bearing to compare with the trailer spindles.

As for the bearing height on the swing side I agree. I've seen carriers that use 2x4 tubing and others that just center some 2x3 tubing on a 4" hinge.

As for the movement or stiffness. You need to drill a hole in the tab/top that fits your hinge pin exactly.
added photo of a nice done hinge.

Next thing to consider is the tire movement on the carrier. The issue I have is not every tire is the same. I might run a spare thats different then my new tires. This means having a fixed point to mount the tire on can create issue with the "wiggle" The fix for this is an adjustable mount. Most use a slip tube, like your trailer receiver and hitch. It's how they are held is what varies. Some just have a pin with holes drilled and that gets you in the ball park. Some use a set screw to allow more fine tune adjustment.
But this looks to be the more promising design. see attahcment. It uses a piece of all-thread to allow you to pull the tire up tight to the mounting post.

 

[KLAKEBRONCO]

I decided on a hinge setup, and it's a Dana 44 spindle/hub/stubshaft/lockout.

Not only will it be VERY heavy duty, by having the stub shaft and lock I will be able to lock it in place when open to keep it in place.

I had the hub lug/rotor face machined off, and am going to look for a tube that is a tight fit over the hub. That way I can weld to the mild steel sleeve that is over the hub, vs right onto the cast steel hub.

 

[ScoutII]

Here's how I do my bumpers:

McMaster Carr (www.mcmaster.com)
flange sleeve bushings (2) 6338k439
1" gr 8 bolt, 6" long 91257A969
Flat washers 98023A038
Nylock 1" 97135A038
Need to have somebody with a lathe drill/bore out a pc of 2" round for the bushings (1.25 ID)

This is a very nice design, a lot of thought went into this. From the rubber bump stop to the graceful curved lines. I like how it opens very wide too. I'm going to build my hinge very similar to this. I will use the 2" DOM tubing with an inside 1.5" this means I need the 6338K483 1.5" sleeve and 1.25 bolt 91268A223.

The latch I use is from Southco.
http://www.southco.com/products/a2-a7-over-center-lever-latches/a2-10-501-21.html
You can buy from Bisco Industries http://www.biscoind.com/index.html
Just enter the A2-10-501-21 in the 'enter a part number" box.

Seems like $68, which is way cheaper than some other distributors.

Oh, and I've had this on my vehicle (the first prototype) for almost 2 years now with spare tire & hi-lift on it with no discernable wear at all. I've tightened it up once as the swing was getting too free but that's it. Pretty bullutproof I think.

Got any more pictures of the latch area, or any pic of the bumper from other angles?
Thanks

 

[ntsqd]

The problem with a hinge assembly like the pictures above is that for both bushing flanges to be in contact the gap either has to be set spot-on, or the tabs have to be bent by tightening the bolt. That is how it is frequently done, bend the tabs with the bolt. Most don't care, but I think it's a kludgey way to build such an assembly. I'm anal that way. :sombrero:

There are a couple ways around this depending on the level of complication that the fabricator is willing to go to. The first is to make the top hole much bigger and put the bolt through a sleave. The top hole still needs to be a tight tolerance hole, but the inclusion of the sleave means that neither tab needs to bend and the assembly can still be drawn up to have no end-play.

The second way to do this is to build it as above, but slot the upper tab through to the hole and make it such that you can put a pinch bolt across the slot. Tightening the pivot bolt still moves the sleave into position, then tightening the pinch bolt 'siezes' the tab on the sleave - negating the need for a tight tolerance hole in the upper tab.

The third way to do it is to make the sleave two piece. The inner piece has a male taper on it and is slotted. The outer has a female tapered bore and a slot. These nest together taper to taper. The act of tightening the bolt causes the tapers to constrict the inner piece on the bolt's shoulder (no need for a tight tolerance bore in this piece) and the outer piece to expand into the hole on the tab (no need for a tight tolerance on the hole in the tab). Attached is a jpg of a model similar to this concept. It differs in that the pivot isn't a bolt, but rather a short shaft with a small axial play removing tension bolt threaded into one end.

 

[KLAKEBRONCO]

Another person used the Dana 44 hinge.


One other advantage to this setup is should you break a hub, you have a spare in your bumper.
I'm doing basically the same thing. I should have pictures by sunday night...I had the rotor faced turned off, and am going to add a interference fit tube over the hub....The carrier pictured is welded directly to the cast hub.

 

[maXTERRA]

Here's a pic of the other side as requested.

 

[jesusgatos]

Looks like you've done a really nice job building that bumper, but I'm wondering why you didn't put the pivot on the side that the tire's on.

 

[KLAKEBRONCO]

Looks like you've done a really nice job building that bumper, but I'm wondering why you didn't put the pivot on the side that the tire's on.

I don't particularly like that execution either but the logic is solid....In my mind.

The hinge is on the passenger side so that when the carrier opens it opens AWAY from traffic/road.
The tire on the drivers side allows you to look over your shoulder on the passenger side and see behind you.