TLC has diesel news

[dieselcruiserhead]

Definititely makes sense John, 100%.. But again I would at least pursue it again. A couple years ago the engine was "rare and sought after." Now they are quite a bit more common I believe. I am pretty sure it is identical to a Rover 300tdi as far as I can tell. As I recall Jeremiah and Jonathan are good friends these days. If it were me I would speak to Jeremiah about it again and pursue it. For that one client I imagine you can think of who wants the conversion and can afford it but doesn't want the SOA or 4-5" lift, run it by them and tell them it's the same engine in the TLC Icon. I have a feeling once you guys do it once to twice it may become a staple, especially since you started going to new Cummins engines for the most part (the cost is similar I think). See what Jonathan says as well and hopefully he can become your distribution source possibly. Also, not sure how "cool" these guys are IE willing to share info, but www.eastcoastrover.com has been installing them for several years now. My guess is distribution has increased significantly. I think they are still made in Brazil but an excellent option, I think it is probably the best engine going for this vehicle size personally. Possibly better than even the high end Toyota diesels believe it or not, IMO...

 

[ChuckB]

Andre, John,

I think you both hit the nail on the head at least for me in particular. My biggest worry, assuming registration is not an issue, is having a non-stock vehicle. I'm pretty sure that I would be able to find someone to work on the Cruiser if I couldn't do it myself (which would be for most things :snorkel: ), but my biggest worry is parts availability. I don't want to be in a situation where my 55 is down for a week or two because I can't get a part for it and it had to come from Brazil, AUS, etc.

This is how the different diesel conversions measure up in my mind, assuming $$$ isn't really a factor and a shop is doing the install.
4BT - easy parts, need to much lift for me (John I will pm you about this)
OM617 - parts should be easy, no "kit" available yet, maybe not enough power according to some, tuning?
2.8 TGV - sounds like a great option, kit available, parts?
Any TOY diesel - parts from Canada? used motor? $$$ for used motor

Also, If I personally am going to go down this road for this much money, I'm not installing a motor unless its rebuilt or brand new. That is for my own piece of mind, I'm kinda anal like that :violent-smiley-031: I'm not completely sold on a SBC, even though people swear by them. If I'm going to get rid of my F engine, its going to be for a 2F, 3FE, 1FZ, 2UZ or a diesel most likely.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

My own take on parts that are odd (I do this anyway even with the Cummins, even though I can get anything I need at any Part Plus or CarQuest or Napa), is to keep a small ammo box with a couple filters and some wear parts. If the alternator is truly unique then maybe one of those, a fan belt etc, some important gaskets. For anything that would be fairly catasrphic anyway that would require a couple days down like a head gasket or a blown injection pump or injectors (which are all rare failures and would cripple any vehicle), I don't really worry aobut it too much... In the end, really not that big a deal. You have to be slightly creative or preventative but it is really not that bad IMO...

 

[ChuckB]

Andre,

Those are valid points. Part of my problem is I'm a worst case scenario thinker, and Murphy is always around the corner. I probably need to trust in the parts more than I currently do.

 

[MtTamer]

Allot of good questions... maybe I can share some insight.
- CARB used to allow a vehicle '85 and older to be converted to diesel if that manufacturer equipped the model with a diesel option. TLC was able to do conversions under the guideline that while Toyota never sold the LC in the US with a diesel, they did offer it in other countries. Last year, the local CARB rep said that no longer qualified. Jonathan used his many relationships in Sacramento to get an exemption for TLC to continue doing the diesel conversions as they are very eco friendly, up to 100% biofuel compatible. I don't know if others can get a conversion through CARB. I just know that TLC can.
- The 2.8 is a great little motor, as many of you have mentioned. TLC chose to go with this motor for several reasons. Primarily, it can be purchased as a new crate motor. Second was that it uses a rotary mechanical fuel pump so there are no electronics to worry about. And thirdly, because Toyota will not sell crate motors and stalled their US diesel program as well.
- The 2.8 is manufactured by MWM International in Brazil. It is sold globally and used extensively in South America and Europe. Since MWM began building their 3.0 motor, they now do limited production runs of the 2.8. The 3.0 uses common rail injection with piezo electric injectors. Much better system but the electronics are the issue. Simens manufactures the ECM for them and a custom base map for the ECM runs about $50K which is what it will take to make one for a conversion vehicle. MWM's U.S. rep is more focused on developing their farm equipment market potential so the 2.8 and 3.0 have to be sourced in Europe. TLC has a 3.0 landing in a few weeks and will begin working on the electronics conversion but so far, the MWM rep and Simens rep are very unwilling to give up the base map for tweaking until they see a BIG check.
- Most of the soft parts for the 2.8 are available in the U.S. TLC is beginning to stock them and they are also available at most VW dealers as they are common parts, e.g. filters, etc. Also, most any diesel mechanic can do service on the motor since it is so basic. It uses a variable vane Garrett turbo and most parts are Bosch.
- Yes, Advance Adapters makes the adapter. TLC has the learning curve behind them to add to the advice that goes with the parts purchase though and the same retail price as AA. TLC actually shares thier info with them so they can use it as well. The H55 is a nicer tranny behind the 2.8 as it seems to be smoother. The NV4500 is noisier and mainshaft design allows the engine to transfer more vibrations. TLC is also going to be looking into the automatic tranny but initial conversations with AA about it are not positive. The Autos made for the 2.8 and 3.0 are so rare in the U.S. that it doesn't make sense to import them and the T-case adapter sales volume doesn't justify the development cost.
- Also, if you do the conversion make sure to use low gears in the axles as high gears, e.g. 3.73:1, will have the engine straining in a lower power band and fuel milage suffers. And don't forget to use an inter-cooler. Running the 2.8 without one will damage the motor.
- Yes, the LR guys have been doing the conversions with this motor for years, mostly in Europe. Unfortunately, most of the additional parts needed for the conversion (radiator, inter-cooler, etc.) are not compatible with fitment-wise with LC's. TLC is going to offer a conversion kit but is still working on inking a deal with MWM that will provide direct access and hence cheaper shipping. Until the kit is available, if someone buys a diesel, TLC can put together a kit to go with the purchase.
- One of the benefits to the 2.8 motor is the weight and size. It fits easily and doesn't add excess weight. That's nice when you're doing the conversion.

Sorry to be so lengthly in my comments. Chris shared the thread with me and it seemed like there were allot of questions out there. Hope that helps.

 

[ChuckB]

mtTamer,

Thanks, that is excellent info!

 

[ujoint]

Yea, thanks for all the detailed info.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

That is wonderful, thank you.. Andre

 

[DBS311]

Hey Ujoint, did you guys get any mpg averages while setting up and evaluating that 60 series? Now, before anybody jumps in and talks about the cost of fuel saved vs. the total cost of the swap........I know, I know. I wouldn't do a swap like this to try and save money at the pump. I'm just curious to see how efficiently that 2.8 moves the 60 series.

 

[pismo62]

MtTamer, Thanks for laying out many of the answers that we have been wondering about. Excellent info along with Ujoints answers.

 

[ujoint]

I'm not sure on the MPG, I look into it and see if anyone has any data.