To ARB or not to ARB that is the question
- Thread starter tbar
- Start date
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
I dunno jack about Tacos... Check with Eaton:
http://www.eaton.com/EatonCom/Produ...roducts/Products/Differentials/DetroitLocker/
Maybe this one?
http://www.jegs.com/i/Detroit Locker/357/913A541/10002/-1?CT=999
Here's a thread:
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/technical-chat/93636-09-tacoma-rear-diff-8-8-4-a.html
Applejack
Explorer
tbar, don't let all these horror stories scare you away. That is not to say that the they are not true, I believe they are. You should not be doing any hardcore wheeling with locked up IFS and dare I say with IFS at all.
If that is your intent, maybe you should reconsider, however there are a lot of people who have run ARB's in IFS's who have never broken anything.
Probably the biggest caveat, if you are sensible off road is, ARB's can require extra maintenance (air lines begin to leak, compressors fail).
For a less expensive alternative, may I suggest a Detroit Trutrac LSD. I put them in a previous 4runner (front/rear) and 97% of the time they were awesome. But they did have a tendency to "crab" on slick/loose hill climbs where others who were completely locked didn't. And if you lifted a tire they were less effective.
Bottom line: You've heard the pros and cons and only you know if it would be a good investment for you. Again, if it were me, I'd do it and someday I will. But I'm not a hardcore of road guy and don't worry about breaking, I just worry about getting stuck sometimes and would like the extra assurance or the ability to lock up the front if I so desired or needed.
If that is your intent, maybe you should reconsider, however there are a lot of people who have run ARB's in IFS's who have never broken anything.
Probably the biggest caveat, if you are sensible off road is, ARB's can require extra maintenance (air lines begin to leak, compressors fail).
For a less expensive alternative, may I suggest a Detroit Trutrac LSD. I put them in a previous 4runner (front/rear) and 97% of the time they were awesome. But they did have a tendency to "crab" on slick/loose hill climbs where others who were completely locked didn't. And if you lifted a tire they were less effective.
Bottom line: You've heard the pros and cons and only you know if it would be a good investment for you. Again, if it were me, I'd do it and someday I will. But I'm not a hardcore of road guy and don't worry about breaking, I just worry about getting stuck sometimes and would like the extra assurance or the ability to lock up the front if I so desired or needed.
alexrex20
Explorer
1911
Expedition Leader
It will never be cheaper to do than it is right now; if you think you want one then go for it.
I have about 100,000 miles on the re-geared diffs and air locker in the front of my FJC; I have never broken a CV on this truck yet. As has been said, you must understand what it's doing to your IFS drive train, know when not to use it, and know how to use it properly when you do. I love mine, it's taken me places that have surprised me. I don't use it all that often, but when I do it's really nice to have that tool in your arsenal.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
For the record, the axles I broke with the ARB were NOT in an IFS.
Front and rear axles were both 4.56 Currie 9" - ARB in front, Detroit in rear (later Detroit in front as well).:
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/jeep9infrontends.aspx
These were mounted in a FJ40 and the front springs were on a reverse shackle setup. The axles were 31-spline Spicers. The INNER axles broke, not the half-shafts. One snapped at the u-joint yoke and the other stripped the splines off at the 3rd member:
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1551
Both were relatively easy to extract on the trail, but the stripped splines had me worried about metal shavings in the 3rd member.
Both times the axles broke when rock crawling and the tires had excellent traction and needed differential rotation speeds and simply didn't have it. Something -had- to give. After that, no more spools for me.
In the mud, sand or dirt spools are okay. The slower tire can slip and spin to keep up with the faster tire.
Front and rear axles were both 4.56 Currie 9" - ARB in front, Detroit in rear (later Detroit in front as well).:
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/jeep9infrontends.aspx
These were mounted in a FJ40 and the front springs were on a reverse shackle setup. The axles were 31-spline Spicers. The INNER axles broke, not the half-shafts. One snapped at the u-joint yoke and the other stripped the splines off at the 3rd member:
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/Product.aspx?id=1551
Both were relatively easy to extract on the trail, but the stripped splines had me worried about metal shavings in the 3rd member.
Both times the axles broke when rock crawling and the tires had excellent traction and needed differential rotation speeds and simply didn't have it. Something -had- to give. After that, no more spools for me.
In the mud, sand or dirt spools are okay. The slower tire can slip and spin to keep up with the faster tire.
4Rescue
Expedition Leader
X2, there are countless threads 9look on Marlin's site) about how 4.88 and 5.29 and really no less strong then 4.10's... usualy set-up and break-in not being properly done are what lead to failures...
As to the OP's Query: Do it, if you can swing it, it's a selectable locker that can be used daily or once a year really... just learn the basics of a front Locker, Things like don't try to use when your tires are cranked and wedged etc... Go through a VERY WELL reputable diff-builder (look over on Yotatech, there's a guy there that's AMAZINGLY thurough at building thirds) not just any gear shop as alot of times they just flat out don't take the time to really set-up the gears (backlash Tooth engagement etc.)
Question; Is your gen of Taco the one that went to an 8" front end??? That makes for alot more options like an 80series High-pinion diff etc.
and just to say it again, the 4.88's are NOT the cause of the Diff failure, Toyota put them in trucks stock and they've lasted in many a truck for YEARS AND YEARS. I'm guessing it was a bad install or improper break-in or one of the other many ways you can abuse the front diff. of a truck???
Cheers
Dave
. Good line selection goes a long way and common sense should take care of the rest.
87FoRunner
Adventurer
There is nothing wrong with running a selectable locker and IFS.
Just use sense and have it properly set up.
How hard can it be? Yes, these are trucks equipped with rack-and-pinion steering with smaller-than-solid-axle tie rods and CV halfshafts as opposed to axle shafts. You must be sensible in when and where to use the front locker.
On my 4runner I ran many of the harder trails with IFS, but my main limiting factor was putting a tire in the air and not having any pull from the front to control my line from that point. I'm not talking gravel roads, I'm talking almost all of the level 4 out of 5 trails at Superlift ORV Park in Hot Springs. I grenaded a spider gear on my 5.29 IFS open front end with enormous abuse. It was due to NOT having a locker as to why my IFS diff failed. With this known now, I will be installing an ARB air locker in my 05 Tacoma TRD to PREVENT failures from the stock open diff. Yes it is an expensive piece, but it is worth it.
Just use sense and have it properly set up.
How hard can it be? Yes, these are trucks equipped with rack-and-pinion steering with smaller-than-solid-axle tie rods and CV halfshafts as opposed to axle shafts. You must be sensible in when and where to use the front locker.
On my 4runner I ran many of the harder trails with IFS, but my main limiting factor was putting a tire in the air and not having any pull from the front to control my line from that point. I'm not talking gravel roads, I'm talking almost all of the level 4 out of 5 trails at Superlift ORV Park in Hot Springs. I grenaded a spider gear on my 5.29 IFS open front end with enormous abuse. It was due to NOT having a locker as to why my IFS diff failed. With this known now, I will be installing an ARB air locker in my 05 Tacoma TRD to PREVENT failures from the stock open diff. Yes it is an expensive piece, but it is worth it.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
No, Einstein - you might try actually reading what was written...
I LOVE lockers.
What I'm saying that I'll damned well never use spools for rock crawling again. You can do whatever floats your particular boat.
oxi
Adventurer
To me the issue with an auto locker up front or an auto LSD like a Truetrac even with the front not locked in is the driving on the street and how it would react on dry pavement and wear over time.
In the rear I have the auto LSD or open diff with brake control to act like a LSD. It has worked fine so far no complaints on and off-road.
If I was to do the front, I would go with a mechanical or you control by a lever or button when to lock it or not and keep it open when not locked.
I wish they would make a OX like type locker for the Tacoma front end. ARB is great only concern I have is the high humidity in the summer here and the deep snow/slush in the winters and getting water into the system. Also cutting air lines, even with BudBuilt skid plates up front, snow still gets packed up there in heavy snowfalls.
Do they make an e-locker for the front yet? The rear, you would have to swap out axles for the Tacoma e-locker, not sure if it is worth it?
In the rear I have the auto LSD or open diff with brake control to act like a LSD. It has worked fine so far no complaints on and off-road.
If I was to do the front, I would go with a mechanical or you control by a lever or button when to lock it or not and keep it open when not locked.
I wish they would make a OX like type locker for the Tacoma front end. ARB is great only concern I have is the high humidity in the summer here and the deep snow/slush in the winters and getting water into the system. Also cutting air lines, even with BudBuilt skid plates up front, snow still gets packed up there in heavy snowfalls.
Do they make an e-locker for the front yet? The rear, you would have to swap out axles for the Tacoma e-locker, not sure if it is worth it?
oxi
Adventurer
By the way guys when I said running like 5.29's with a pinion half the size of the original factory, I did 2 desert off-road races a Baja 500 and Parker 400 and it failed. After I put the original factory gears back in, the next 5 races never had a problem.
I still think it was the smaller pinion trying to give traction for those 35" tires...
I still think it was the smaller pinion trying to give traction for those 35" tires...
109 Pretender
Observer
To the OP,
You have been given a lot of good info in this thread. And it's quite true that a stock Toy IFS isn't capable of hardcore rockcrawling w/o eventually breaking something - possibly axle shafts - but more likely inside/outside CV joints or steering tie rods and shafts. The factory UCA and LCA are also not HD enough for really serious stuff.
A front locker will escalate this event if you don't build up the IFS AND if you don't respect this fact when wheeling. However, IF you are careful it can work fine - just stay aware of the extra stress being placed on the CV joints and other IFS components.
Only you can answer this but, YOU need to determine if you will really use it enough to justify expense - not the cost of the ARB, which is incidental since you're already inside the front diff for other reasons. No, you need to consider if you will want to follow the rest of the IFS upgrade procession to beef up weak parts enough to be able to effectively use this locker. It's not cheap - in fact it's cheaper to do a solid axle swap than build up a tough IFS. Look at the pic another person posted of Shannon's racer. See how much heavier duty the UCA, LCA, and steering arms are? That's what it takes to make IFS capable of HC rockcrawling. Probably not what you had in mind anyway was it? Andf never forget that no matter how much money you spend on IFS or solid axle setups - if you wheel hard enough - something WILL break.
Good luck!
You have been given a lot of good info in this thread. And it's quite true that a stock Toy IFS isn't capable of hardcore rockcrawling w/o eventually breaking something - possibly axle shafts - but more likely inside/outside CV joints or steering tie rods and shafts. The factory UCA and LCA are also not HD enough for really serious stuff.
A front locker will escalate this event if you don't build up the IFS AND if you don't respect this fact when wheeling. However, IF you are careful it can work fine - just stay aware of the extra stress being placed on the CV joints and other IFS components.
Only you can answer this but, YOU need to determine if you will really use it enough to justify expense - not the cost of the ARB, which is incidental since you're already inside the front diff for other reasons. No, you need to consider if you will want to follow the rest of the IFS upgrade procession to beef up weak parts enough to be able to effectively use this locker. It's not cheap - in fact it's cheaper to do a solid axle swap than build up a tough IFS. Look at the pic another person posted of Shannon's racer. See how much heavier duty the UCA, LCA, and steering arms are? That's what it takes to make IFS capable of HC rockcrawling. Probably not what you had in mind anyway was it? Andf never forget that no matter how much money you spend on IFS or solid axle setups - if you wheel hard enough - something WILL break.
Good luck!