Toyo MT 255/85R16 (and comparison pics)

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Yep, there it was in black-and-white, the 35-psi load rating of 1920-lbs; I missed it :)

Of course I agree with Toyo's P-Metric/LT-metric load & PSI warning. The common, negligent attitude of many drivers toward the care and maintenance of tires is scary. A short personal story regarding tire safety is appropriate here. It involves motorcycle tires, which are required to do even more over their relatively short life (compared to truck tires), but it illustrates 'the attitude' toward tires.

A couple weeks ago I was on a long, spirited, 4-day motorcycle ride with three friends. All of these men are very well trained riders, but well trained doesn't mean disciplined or safety minded. One of my friends started the 1,300-mile ride with a rear tire that I would not have used to ride across town; it had a 'bald' center section. When this was noticed at one of our stops on the first morning, and we chastised him and only half-jokingly stated that there will have to be a 'tech inspection' for this invitational ride next year. The rider laughed-off the condition of his tire.

At the end of our second day as we rode into a small town for a dinner and motel stop-over, another friend who had been riding behind 'bald-tire-man' noticed exposed cord and metal coming through the tread. The rider who noticed this used to be the manager of a large tire retailer. He and I told bald-tire-man that his tire was not okay! An emergency! Three hours earlier we had been in a medium sized town where bald-tire-man could have purchased a tire. Since we were now in far northern/rural California, his only option was to retrace our steps the next morning, during a light coastal rain, returning to the same town to buy a tire. His plan was to meet up with us midday if possible, while the three remaining riders charged forward on our longest/best day, 350-miles of mostly tight mountain twisties. We didn’t see him until dinner at the end of the day. Rain, forest fires, detours, and a lack of communication prevented us from finding each other during the ride.

A couple weeks before our departure I had tires that 'could have' have made this ride, my rear was probably around 5/32". But I thought it better to start the trip with new rubber front & rear even though I didn't really have the $450.00 to spare for a new set of skins (installed).


Again this is a bit of apple-oranges, comparing car/truck and moto tires but the lessons are universal in my eyes. The Tire Rack video below is one example of how important good tread depth can be. I may have posted this before in another thread but here it is again for those that want their eyes opened. Just one example of how important tires are.

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=5

ashooter said:
Redline,

Actually that table DOES show the load rating of 1920 lbs at 35 psi... So as usual, The Tire Guru (aka "Imelda Marcos of Tires") is correct. ;)

I am just more comfortable running these at 42psi since it equates the OEM load rating for most 80-series Cruisers... and my guess is they will wear better at that pressure. Strangely enough, my '92 originally came with 235/75R15's, but that was just plain silly on Toyota's part, so I'm basing my numbers on the later FZJ80 specs. One thing that always nags at me when people talk about running what I consider "low" pressures (35psi) on the highway is what is in the link above on Pg 71:

"WARNING! Please note that size for size, LT-metric tires require higher air pressures to carry equivalent loads of P-Metric tires and that any failure to adjust air pressure to achieve the vehicle’s load requirements will result in tire fatigue and eventual tire failure due to excessive heat buildup. Due to the higher PSI requirements of LT-Metric tires they may not be suitable for replacing O.E. P-Metric tires because of the ride harshness that results from higher PSI."

Heat buildup down here where it's between 90F and 105F about 6 months out of the year just seems like something not to take any chances with. 35psi on a 100F day at 75 mph for four hours just seems like a bad idea to me!

Also, in case you were curious - these 255/85 Toyos seem to ride softer at 42psi than my 265/75 load range "E" Bridgestone Revos did at 40psi. Only reason I can think of why that would be the case is that the 255/85 sidewalls are taller. Kind of interesting, whatever the reason.
 
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Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
I forgot to agree with you on this point.

ashooter said:
snip.......

Also, in case you were curious - these 255/85 Toyos seem to ride softer at 42psi than my 265/75 load range "E" Bridgestone Revos did at 40psi. Only reason I can think of why that would be the case is that the 255/85 sidewalls are taller. Kind of interesting, whatever the reason.

A couple years ago when I had a set of both 285/7516 and 265/75R16 Toyo MTs at the same time for my Jeep, I noted that the 285s rode better than the 265s. Both were load-range-E and inflated to the same pressure. I also attributed the better ride of the 285s to the extra sidewall.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
As long as it's a love - hate relationship we can take you as you are :)

'Hate' to have to spend money on new tires but 'Love' to have new treads :clapsmile

flyingwil said:
I have 4 words for you guys: I hate you guys!

:hehe:
 
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Willman

Active member
Great thread!


I'm waiting to see how the new BF's play out.....

Can't wait to hear Wil's feed back on his new shoes!

:)
 

flyingwil

Supporting Sponsor - Sierra Expeditions
Redline said:
As long as it's a love - hate relationship we can take you are you are :)

'Hate' to have to spend money on new tires but 'Love' to have new treads :clapsmile


Crap, man not kidding definitely not cheap. I thought I was going be divorced when I got home and Wen saw the bill. Ahhhh, now to wait for Thursday! Hope the wheels will fit.
 

flyingwil

Supporting Sponsor - Sierra Expeditions
Got the new Toyo's and wheels on yesterday afternoon. What a difference... total night and day! I was wondering if it would be a difference, but its HUGE! I can actually feel my suspension work again. Here's my thoughts from the first 50 miles so far:

Ride is much smoother at slower speeds. With the BFG MT's I could feel each lug as I would come to a stop, almost like I had octagon shaped tires. I think I got about 1,000 feet from the store and called my wife to tell her about the difference!

I haven't been off the pavement with 'em yet, but the steering response seems to be increased and more sensitive. Cool... won't hear me complain about that.

As far as looks go I dig the way they look. Well minus the chrome crap they put on my wheels :smilies27 (re-ordered them in black). Yeah, since there's chrome, sorry no pics until the ugly is fixed. Even FlyingWen said I think it should be black. (She's a keeper!)

The tires seemed to balance well according to the guys that mounted them, and they said that it took less weight to balance them than other MT's that they stock. (not sure how true it was as they were all gawking at my rig)

Well just cool, sweet and awesome is all I can say at this point. I'll post up more as I go and after I get 'em in the dirt. So far, they rock!

ashooter said:
the tire shop put 65 lbs in the tires just before my highway test drive and I have 54 lbs in them now after doing the "chalk test" to get to the pressure where the tread is flat on the pavement.

The chalk test... I need to learn more about this. I have read several pro's and cons regrading the chalk test, it seems to make sense to me.
 
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ashooter

Adventurer
I don't think I have a whole lot of faith in the chalk test, other than at extreme high or low pressures. The pdf load chart on Toyo's website seems to be a lot better way to determine how much air to put in these tires. The chalk test told me I was okay at 50+ psi, but I'm riding with 42 now based on that load table and feel/performance.

In case anybody missed it earlier in this thread - http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/loadinflationtable.pdf - Look at the table titled "TRA Light Truck Inflation Table" on Page "A9" if you have 255's, otherwise there is a table specifically for Toyo M/T's (but 255's are not in that table).
 
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Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
I agree with Ashooter. I don't necessarily have anything against the 'chalk test', I guess it works and many people seem to like it, I’ve just never used it.

I have always preferred what I believe is a more accurate/safe method of weighing my trucks and using load inflation charts. As I said in a previous post, I think 35-psi is plenty of pressure for an LT255/85R16, even a heavy rig like my 4Runner, and I often run less, about 32-psi. Particularly with the very stiff Toyo MTs, I prefer to run a pressure at which I think the tire might actually conform to the road a bit and have better grip.

Edit: Having said this I understand the desire or need to increased inflation PSI for high speed driving and/or excessive heat.
 
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Gurkha

Adventurer
32 works out quite well with my Gurkha which weighs same as a MB G300 roughly. Anything more and the ride gets choppy.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Update please Will

How do you like the Toyo M/Ts now? You purchased 255/85 right?

On road ride not too firm? What PSI are you running?

How about off-highway?

How were they on your recent rescue mission for Mr. Scott J.?


flyingwil said:
Got the new Toyo's and wheels on yesterday afternoon. What a difference... total night and day! I was wondering if it would be a difference, but its HUGE! I can actually feel my suspension work again. Here's my thoughts from the first 50 miles so far:

Ride is much smoother at slower speeds. With the BFG MT's I could feel each lug as I would come to a stop, almost like I had octagon shaped tires. I think I got about 1,000 feet from the store and called my wife to tell her about the difference!

I haven't been off the pavement with 'em yet, but the steering response seems to be increased and more sensitive. Cool... won't hear me complain about that.

As far as looks go I dig the way they look. Well minus the chrome crap they put on my wheels :smilies27 (re-ordered them in black). Yeah, since there's chrome, sorry no pics until the ugly is fixed. Even FlyingWen said I think it should be black. (She's a keeper!)

The tires seemed to balance well according to the guys that mounted them, and they said that it took less weight to balance them than other MT's that they stock. (not sure how true it was as they were all gawking at my rig)

Well just cool, sweet and awesome is all I can say at this point. I'll post up more as I go and after I get 'em in the dirt. So far, they rock!



The chalk test... I need to learn more about this. I have read several pro's and cons regrading the chalk test, it seems to make sense to me.
 

flyingwil

Supporting Sponsor - Sierra Expeditions
Awe crap... now I have to respond!!! LOL!
Redline said:
How do you like the Toyo M/Ts now? You purchased 255/85 right?
Still love 'em! Still balance well, and they have been through thick desert, rocks, mud, water, and pavement.

DSC00717.JPG


After the Trophy I headed on over to Joshua Tree with Tony D. This put some good highway miles on the tires. Yay! Still rolling well and havent had them it to get rebalanced and they really don't need it.

Redline said:
On road ride not too firm?
The ride on the road is still a great improvement over the BFG's, its still noticeable and still makes me think wow when I drive the truck.

Redline said:
What PSI are you running?
normally 18psi off pavement and 36psi on the pavement. The response is still there that was noticable after the tire change!! Oh yeah!!! :wings:

Redline said:
How about off-highway?
Off the pavement they grip a bit better IMO than the BFG's did. On a local trail we go through a river crossing and there is rocks on the other side of the trail to exit the water crossing. The Toyo's start gripping where the BFG's would slip a bit. Not to say that this is a huge factor in picking tires, but it is most definitely noticeable for me.

Sand driving is about the same for the Toyo's and the BFG's from what I can tell.

Rocks, as mentioned above I grip the rocks better when wet than the BFG's did. Not night and day difference but noticeable.

Water crossings - I have no clue can tell a difference.

Mud - In the mud they seem about equal, its hard to tell as the viscosity of the mud here in AZ is not constant. They clear the mud well, and grip on dry rocks well when coming out of the mud.

Snow - ummm what's that??? We're going to need to wait a few more weeks for it to snow out on the mountains out here. I'll keep you guys posted.

Hard Pack - Seems a bit firmer, I can notice the tire chirp when unlocking the lockers in the hard pack a bit more than the BFGs, this may be due to that they have more tread, but I can tell they are biting a tad more.

Redline said:
How were they on your recent rescue mission for Mr. Scott J.?
On the recovery for Scott J, I went out with PurplePeopleEater prior and had a bit of mud already... so they were ready for the challenge.

To get to Scott it took about 60 miles of travel one way, and I'll briefly describe it section by section.

Freeway - The ride on the freeway is much quieter than the BFG's the road noise I would say is easily cut in half on the freeway and at speeds higher than 30MPH.

Exiting the Freeway - Why am I including this? The BFG's had what I called a clown car feel (riding on octagon wheels) to them where coming to a stop you could feel each lug as the tire rolled at slower speeds. This is nearly eliminated with the Toyo's but not 100% gone. They are MT's and its part of the clearing feature built and designed into the tires.

Back Roads - The roads were paved and had numerous wash outs that over flowed the road with sand and debris, this is fairly common here in AZ when it rains. This mixed road conditions of 90% pavement and 10% dirt/sand can create small area's of panic during the drive on the road when approching these unforeseen washout areas. As mentioned above the response seems to be improved with the Toyo's and was noticeable during this drive segment.

Wet Pavement - The Toyo's grip better than the BFG Mt's on wet pavement the rear end stays on the pavement better than the BFG;s. I'm hoping that this will be a foreshadow of snow driving for the Toyos. Only time will tell.

Forest Service Road - Still at 36 psi they rode on the rough side, we were traveling in speeds from 10 to 45mph. Washboards are still a pain in the butt. I hate washboards. At higher speeds on turns with washboard the toyo's are pretty equal to the BFG's. I think it is due to the tire contact area on these segments.

Mud - Where Scott got stuck, I honestly don't think that anyone could have made it with out getting stuck. The mud was very thick and very deep, due to this I don't think that any tire could have the opportunity to clear the mud from the tread. This was the step in the mud loose your shoe kind of mud with the suction from below. We were at slow speeds (walking or slower) and again this did not give the tires a change to clear themselves out.

After the recovery we were heading back to the Sequoia parked on the hard pack forest service road, and approached another vehicle who took off at a high rate of speed. Once we drove by the Sequoia, we saw the overhead light was on and pursued in a chase to get the license plate # of the vehicle incase they had broken into it. Oh the tires cleared really fast, and returned to normal in a matter of seconds.

That's my impromptu notes as of now. I still like them better than the BFG MT's and am please with the decision to run Toyo's.

Let me know if this sparks any further questions.
 

Redline

Likes to Drive and Ride
Excellent input Will.

As you said in a couple of places in your update, the one (the only?) negative is that the Toyo M/Ts are firm on hard packed dirt & washboards. I agree and it's the price of using such a rugged/stiff load-range-E tire, particularly on a lighter truck, and one of the reasons they aren’t currently on my 4Runner.

But they are still great tires :)

flyingwil said:
snipMMMMMMMMMMMM..

Forest Service Road - Still at 36 psi they rode on the rough side, we were traveling in speeds from 10 to 45mph. Washboards are still a pain in the butt. I hate washboards. At higher speeds on turns with washboard the toyo's are pretty equal to the BFG's. I think it is due to the tire contact area on these segments.

snipMMMMMMMMMMMM
 

mrstang01

Adventurer
flyingwil said:
On the recovery for Scott J, I went out with PurplePeopleEater prior and had a bit of mud already... so they were ready for the challenge.

To get to Scott it took about 60 miles of travel one way, and I'll briefly describe it section by section.

Not to hijack the thread, but is there a thread somewhere with the story on this, sounds interesting!

Michael
 

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