Honestly, your setup is brilliant. Mine works but it's a PITA getting the bikes off to ride spontaneously. I just wanted to share concerns. Enjoying this thread.
Cheers
Trestle 2022 Ram 3500 Cab/Chassis Build Thread
- Thread starter Trestle
- Start date
Cheers
WW Cyclist
Member
Gin and Tonic. Love it!
Shake down trip in Moab, and some observations.
It's about six hours to Moab traveling through reservation land. There are a lot of free range areas, so driving at night can be dangerous. This was the first chance to try out our lights.
XL sports used as fogs worked well to light up the shoulders of the road, and add a little bit of light down range. Switching them on and off is not intuitive with the up fitter switches in the dash like it would be if on the steering wheel column. We don't leave them on with oncoming traffic, as many do, so their use is really when there is no oncoming traffic (or a lot of traffic in general). They were great to help light sides of the road so you know if animals are nearby or starting to cross. The amber color works very well with the old eyes. Larger SAE versions would be ideal in filling the large hole in the bumper, and allowing for use with oncoming traffic. Perhaps Baja Designs will come up with some in this size, but I somehow doubt it will be for a while if they ever do.
We briefly tried the S2 sports, and they are perfect for side lighting when looking for a side road or campsite. These hit the mark for their intended use.
The LP6 pros in low beam eclipse everything, and have been nicknamed "the Sun" when on high beam. Initial aiming had them too low, so there was so much light just in front of the vehicle it was nearly useless. We later trimmed them up, and they got better. Then trimmed them up a second time...one slightly higher than the other. Perfect. That insane light was just as insane...yet now useful instead of blinding us. Side spill is actually darn good too, but I can't imagine rolling up with them into a camp site if ANYONE is around as it would piss off everyone to no end. So they can do it all, but are not always appropriate...and the S2s still earn their place.
Night one we rolled into Gooseneck State Park for a cliffside camp spot. Hoping that the 4 bars of 3G would be just enough to get through the mornings meeting. It wasn't great, but we got through the meeting and immediately packed up/headed to Moab instead of working for the day with slow data. Intermittent good data while driving is often preferable to constant low data in-situ.
Our first night in Moab was Thursday, with a promised dry week on the horizon that we looked forward to after so much snow at home. 2 bars of 4G would be enough to work the next day since we were in an area with fewer people competing for bandwidth on the same tower. There are plenty of places in Moab with great signal, but next to no bandwidth due to tower congestion. This seriously limits our options during the workweek. Taking a look a Starlink, but not buying into it yet. We lived on the road years ago, and were able to easily work in all these places. Since so many people are not able to work remotely, days of plentiful data and easy to source spots is a thing of the past.
Using the induction cooktop during sunset to make dinner.
As promised, the weather was incredibly dry and warm the next day....unless you include the rainstorm, lightening, and eventually snow at sunrise.
This set up a chain of events that gave me initial concern on power management. A lot of induction cooking during dinner, power to run the heater during the night, the interior "white noise" fan during the night, the espresso machine the next day, our various electronics during the day for work...and the panels covered in snow. We have a robust system, but it was untested. How would it do?
In the end, we never got down to 50% before the sun finally melted off the snow and we could start to harvest some photons. I looked back at the monitor maybe an hour later and we were at 100%. This happened a few times during our "sunny and dry" trip. Every time the system amazed us at how quickly it refilled the batteries. But the days are getting longer, so I'd better finish some of the planned work to bolster input before fall rolls around.
Things to do:
Traveling in 4-low with the Cummins to get to the site was easy, but slow. You can simply put your feet flat on the floor and let it idle up all but the steep climbs. This is great, but did reveal a few things we need to address.
Weekends were nice in that we played instead of worked like we do when at home. We were starting to forget what it's like to have fun. Two days in a row of biking some great trails, having some post ride libations, decent food (Moab is not known for fine cuisine, but the hearty fair on offer after expending many calories makes up for it), and not thinking (too much) about all the stuff staring us in the face when at home was a nice break.
The sunsets at camp weren't bad either.
One of our weekday worksites with plenty of usable data made for a great, but slightly distracting, office for the day.
Next to pick up some steel to modify the tray mounts on Thursday while in Phoenix (wow it's already hitting 100 there), and getting all the parts/pieces ready to install the lift...hopefully this weekend.
It's about six hours to Moab traveling through reservation land. There are a lot of free range areas, so driving at night can be dangerous. This was the first chance to try out our lights.
XL sports used as fogs worked well to light up the shoulders of the road, and add a little bit of light down range. Switching them on and off is not intuitive with the up fitter switches in the dash like it would be if on the steering wheel column. We don't leave them on with oncoming traffic, as many do, so their use is really when there is no oncoming traffic (or a lot of traffic in general). They were great to help light sides of the road so you know if animals are nearby or starting to cross. The amber color works very well with the old eyes. Larger SAE versions would be ideal in filling the large hole in the bumper, and allowing for use with oncoming traffic. Perhaps Baja Designs will come up with some in this size, but I somehow doubt it will be for a while if they ever do.
We briefly tried the S2 sports, and they are perfect for side lighting when looking for a side road or campsite. These hit the mark for their intended use.
The LP6 pros in low beam eclipse everything, and have been nicknamed "the Sun" when on high beam. Initial aiming had them too low, so there was so much light just in front of the vehicle it was nearly useless. We later trimmed them up, and they got better. Then trimmed them up a second time...one slightly higher than the other. Perfect. That insane light was just as insane...yet now useful instead of blinding us. Side spill is actually darn good too, but I can't imagine rolling up with them into a camp site if ANYONE is around as it would piss off everyone to no end. So they can do it all, but are not always appropriate...and the S2s still earn their place.
Night one we rolled into Gooseneck State Park for a cliffside camp spot. Hoping that the 4 bars of 3G would be just enough to get through the mornings meeting. It wasn't great, but we got through the meeting and immediately packed up/headed to Moab instead of working for the day with slow data. Intermittent good data while driving is often preferable to constant low data in-situ.
Our first night in Moab was Thursday, with a promised dry week on the horizon that we looked forward to after so much snow at home. 2 bars of 4G would be enough to work the next day since we were in an area with fewer people competing for bandwidth on the same tower. There are plenty of places in Moab with great signal, but next to no bandwidth due to tower congestion. This seriously limits our options during the workweek. Taking a look a Starlink, but not buying into it yet. We lived on the road years ago, and were able to easily work in all these places. Since so many people are not able to work remotely, days of plentiful data and easy to source spots is a thing of the past.
Using the induction cooktop during sunset to make dinner.
As promised, the weather was incredibly dry and warm the next day....unless you include the rainstorm, lightening, and eventually snow at sunrise.
This set up a chain of events that gave me initial concern on power management. A lot of induction cooking during dinner, power to run the heater during the night, the interior "white noise" fan during the night, the espresso machine the next day, our various electronics during the day for work...and the panels covered in snow. We have a robust system, but it was untested. How would it do?
In the end, we never got down to 50% before the sun finally melted off the snow and we could start to harvest some photons. I looked back at the monitor maybe an hour later and we were at 100%. This happened a few times during our "sunny and dry" trip. Every time the system amazed us at how quickly it refilled the batteries. But the days are getting longer, so I'd better finish some of the planned work to bolster input before fall rolls around.
Things to do:
- Finish installing the WeBoost cell booster to help increase range
- Wire up the alternator to the Victron b2b charger for days with less direct sunlight and shorter days later this year
Traveling in 4-low with the Cummins to get to the site was easy, but slow. You can simply put your feet flat on the floor and let it idle up all but the steep climbs. This is great, but did reveal a few things we need to address.
- Get the lift installed, and the 37's in place - traveling off-road with 80psi in the tires just plain sucks. Even on unimproved dirt roads. There was nothing long enough to justify airing down, then back up again so we dealt with it and dreamt of bigger tires making smaller rocks.
- Relook at the tray to truck mounts - No issues with movement or the camper, but it squeaks too damn much when flexing. I've already purchased 1/3rd of the solution, will pick up materials for the second 1/3rd on Thursday, and then it's mostly hardware to make it all happen. The bonus is that I can engineer in some up travel for when we get more flexy. More to follow once we get to that project.
Weekends were nice in that we played instead of worked like we do when at home. We were starting to forget what it's like to have fun. Two days in a row of biking some great trails, having some post ride libations, decent food (Moab is not known for fine cuisine, but the hearty fair on offer after expending many calories makes up for it), and not thinking (too much) about all the stuff staring us in the face when at home was a nice break.
The sunsets at camp weren't bad either.
One of our weekday worksites with plenty of usable data made for a great, but slightly distracting, office for the day.
Next to pick up some steel to modify the tray mounts on Thursday while in Phoenix (wow it's already hitting 100 there), and getting all the parts/pieces ready to install the lift...hopefully this weekend.
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Hope to free up some valuable space in the garage by removing 4x large tires and a bunch of lift parts:
Oh and these showed up today too, so no need (hopefully) to cut and raise the lower shock mounts to temporarily accommodate the lift as these have the lift accounted for with the stock lower shock mount locations.
Calculated and tuned for the middle of the loaded range, with upward adjustments for high and low speed compression if/when we have a need to fuel/water/gear all the way up.
On a related note, the fuel pricing in Northern AZ and in Moab are a bit higher so I kept the fuel tanks in the bottom end of the range. Think $4.63 for diesel the entire 10 days we were in Moab. On the way to Moab, we noticed diesel sitting at $3.99 when rolling through Monticello and Blanding, UT. A splash on the way out of Moab, with a planned fill up...we ended up seeing a sign for a Maverick that had it at $3.85 where you turn to go East toward Durango (I think it was in Monticello, but don't remember for sure. Punch in our rewards number for another $0.02 off, and we top this thing off for the first time Ince owning it. Three card swipes and $230 later...both tanks topped up. What does it say when we're relatively happy to have spend more than 2x bills to fill up? You could feel the difference with that much weight added all at once.
Taking advantage of fuel on "sale" is one of the reasons for all this capacity. We ranged from 13.6 to 16.3 mpg on the trip, mostly in the mid to upper 14s. Wind and long climbs seem to make the most difference. I try to keep it at 70 on the highway, but that doesn't always happen. It just wants to go, and the low revs/quiet cabin give the impression you're crawling at that speed.
Oh and these showed up today too, so no need (hopefully) to cut and raise the lower shock mounts to temporarily accommodate the lift as these have the lift accounted for with the stock lower shock mount locations.
Calculated and tuned for the middle of the loaded range, with upward adjustments for high and low speed compression if/when we have a need to fuel/water/gear all the way up.
On a related note, the fuel pricing in Northern AZ and in Moab are a bit higher so I kept the fuel tanks in the bottom end of the range. Think $4.63 for diesel the entire 10 days we were in Moab. On the way to Moab, we noticed diesel sitting at $3.99 when rolling through Monticello and Blanding, UT. A splash on the way out of Moab, with a planned fill up...we ended up seeing a sign for a Maverick that had it at $3.85 where you turn to go East toward Durango (I think it was in Monticello, but don't remember for sure. Punch in our rewards number for another $0.02 off, and we top this thing off for the first time Ince owning it. Three card swipes and $230 later...both tanks topped up. What does it say when we're relatively happy to have spend more than 2x bills to fill up? You could feel the difference with that much weight added all at once.
Taking advantage of fuel on "sale" is one of the reasons for all this capacity. We ranged from 13.6 to 16.3 mpg on the trip, mostly in the mid to upper 14s. Wind and long climbs seem to make the most difference. I try to keep it at 70 on the highway, but that doesn't always happen. It just wants to go, and the low revs/quiet cabin give the impression you're crawling at that speed.
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BikePilot
Member
Interesting shocks, are those from Thuren? I have 3.0" kings on order from them and didn't notice a piggyback fox option. I'm sure those plus 37s will make a massive improvement in off road comfort.
I hear you on speed! My 4th gen came with 3.42s. Even at 85 it feels like it's just idling and 6th is almost useless below 70. I'll be swapping those out for lower gears here soon.
I hear you on speed! My 4th gen came with 3.42s. Even at 85 it feels like it's just idling and 6th is almost useless below 70. I'll be swapping those out for lower gears here soon.
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
Excellent Real World Review.
The squeaking and creaking from the bed is likely the aluminum stressing. Glad youre adding some flexy points soon.
I live 10 minutes away from Accutune, and everyone i know that has run their tuned shocks LOVES them, so that will be a huge improvement for sure.
Take a real close look at how the top rear shock bolt fits into that upper mount sleeve.
If you have slop like i did, i have the part # for new ones, that arent necked down, laying around somewhere
The squeaking and creaking from the bed is likely the aluminum stressing. Glad youre adding some flexy points soon.
I live 10 minutes away from Accutune, and everyone i know that has run their tuned shocks LOVES them, so that will be a huge improvement for sure.
Take a real close look at how the top rear shock bolt fits into that upper mount sleeve.
If you have slop like i did, i have the part # for new ones, that arent necked down, laying around somewhere
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The shocks are intended for a different platform. Now that I have them mounted (pics and story to follow, as I am traveling for work) I know what it takes to fit them. No one from any of the manufacturers had an answer for this cab/chassis. The secret sauce only works with a little bit of modification, and custom tuned as the chassis they are actually designed for is a 1500 level truck. Fox has something to match nearly everything King does in terms of features. These are a 2.5” setup with piggy back reservoir with adjustable HSC and LSC. The idea is to have them tuned for most of the time, and to be able to turn them up when loaded on the heavier side. I ordered matching front, though likely needed compression adjustment, the price for a set with adjustment is not much more than without. Of course, those are on backorder. They may show up tomorrow, or next year.
The top sleeve required drilling out with a 5/8” bit. I smoked one going too fast, and had to run down to the Depot to get a nicer Milwaukee unit. No issues after that. I did have to space the passenger side out 1/2” with a shim. I may have had clearance in the notch, but wanted to be sure there was no interference between frame and shock. Plenty of thread to carry into the mount point, and works a treat.
The two shocks have the piggyback mounted in different orientations. Front to back on the passenger side, laterally on the drivers side where the exhaust was not in the way. I did not think I could mount them piggyback side up, but was able to do so. Some bellows added to protect the shaft…and thus not damage the seals near as fast as without.
No real testing yet, but my body is incredibly sore after doing the lift by myself in a day. Perhaps that shows how out of shape I have become. These things are industrial, and everything us much bigger than I am used to working on with a Sprinter or any other platform. Had to buy a 3/4” torque wrench that went up to 300 foot pounds that I’ll probably never use again, but better to pay for tools and have them than pay someone else to do things then need them later.
This one came setup with 3.73. Once I reprogram the tire size, that will modify the shift points and bring it back into where it needs to be. It wants to upshift too soon, so I used the tow/haul button to let it rev our a little more. Before I was sitting at 1500 at 65, and expect that will be closer to 70 now. That’s where I tend to drive, and 1500 to 1800 is where this motor develops peak volumetric efficiency from what I have been able to gather…so it should be most efficient there. Time will tell. If I wanted to go with 40’s or bigger, then I would have want for 4.10 in the diffs. No desire to deal with the side effects of running 40s or 41s, though they do look cool as hell.
My 2015 RAM had 3.42 ratios, it was great when empty and running at low altitudes. Any significant load and altitude needed tow-haul and/or a limit to 5th gear.
The new 2021 with 3.73 works much better most of the time, except 70 mph+ speeds are busy. It's a much better gear ratio. I'm running 35" tires and the speedo is right-on, no need for changes.
But, the stock transmission tuning is for economy. It will stuff it into 6th at 40 mph. Any load, wind, altitudes, twisty roads has me putting it in tow-haul. 1800-2100 rpm is really sweet.
The new 2021 with 3.73 works much better most of the time, except 70 mph+ speeds are busy. It's a much better gear ratio. I'm running 35" tires and the speedo is right-on, no need for changes.
But, the stock transmission tuning is for economy. It will stuff it into 6th at 40 mph. Any load, wind, altitudes, twisty roads has me putting it in tow-haul. 1800-2100 rpm is really sweet.
Lift Install
Lifting a cab/chassis is not for someone who wants turn key, easy button. It is not that it is difficult to do, so much that there is a lack of support and knowledge.
The front of the truck is essentially the same as a traditional 3500, so all the same parts fit. The rear has shorter shocks, different springs, different u-bolts, different clearances, etc. The only answer out there I was able to find was if you paired up with an AEV dealer who knew their secret sauce. Mario at AT Overland does, as per evidence of his Aterra XL truck camper at Expo West the past two years. I reach out, and he told me he could get the parts. I sought quotes, etc. After a bit of back and forth, it seems that the small nature of my project fell through the cracks. Want to build out a full truck with him, you're probably in luck. It's probably a matter of so much demand, and prioritization of clients. AEV themselves were no help at all, despite multiple attempts on my part.
What's the secret sauce in their lift...from what I can gather...is a spacer, longer u-bolts, rear airbags, and moving the stock rear shock lower mounting points up 1" by cutting them off and re-welding them back on. The airbags are optional, and likely were added on for increased weight over the factory leaf's capability.
What it did do for us is forced us to seek alternatives, and come up with our own package.
Not being super thrilled with the lack of response, we moved away from AEV for a lift. We did purchase 5 wheels from them, as we like the way the Saltas are reminiscent of EVO Corsa style wheels on some of the Dakar race trucks. Plan B would have been something like a Method with the bead grip feature.
We reached out to a number of suppliers such as CJC, Thuren, Carly, and a few more as part of the process. In the end we went with nearly all Thuren up front by using the following:
Out back we used their Bogie rear bump stops, and made our own 2" spacers out of 3/16" wall steel square tube.
Other items sourced include:
Still in the works...in shipment as we're typing... are full rear leafs and appropriate u-bolts specific to measured/projected weights (the spacers were always a temporary fix)
Installation
We started with the rear as it was less turn-key, and we knew there would be issues. Lifting the rear with a 20-ton air over hydraulic bottle jack was easy, but we didn't get it right the first time. Everything had to come up more, so a lot of 2x4 sections were cut to make platforms to achieve the necessary height.
2x 3 ton jack stands in place, with a 20 ton bottle jack as backup. Both front wheels chocked.
A standard floor jack to manipulate/support the axle at various times, and some ratchet straps to move the axle fore/aft for repositioning when putting things back together.
It took time to figure out exactly how to fit the rear shocks since the piggybacks had to clear the frame notches, and exhaust hardware. Upper sleeves were drilled out to fit the factory shock bolts. The PMF spacers required minimal modification, essentially removing some material for the center pin as this setup has a center pin and two bolts for a total of three pieces to align vs. your more standard one centered piece. No issues there other than time.
In all the rear took half the day. We could knock it out in about 3 hours or less on a subsequent attempt. Perhaps less with a proper lift.
Rear wheels mounted, now ready to start the front lift.
The front lift took longer to do, but mostly due to other distractions we had to deal with unrelated to the truck. In essence you lift everything up, block brace, support, etc. to make everything stable and safe.
In the end it is longer shocks, longer springs, swapping out the track bar, and swapping out the steering dampener. The thing that took the longest, believe it or not, were putting the bump stops in. What should have been as easy as pressing them in place...was not. First off, they are different, and I could find no source on which went on which side...which side for each faced inward. After using a bit of common sense, we struggled to get them to press into place. No idea why such a simple task proved so frustrating...but it's done.
The rear reminds me so some older 4 runners suffering from 4-runneritus, but replacement springs will fix that soon.
We could not drive the vehicle the day of the lift, as our torque wrench only went to 150 ft pounds, and we needed to get to 225 on the track bar and 300 on the rear leafs. A trip to the store, and we had a new 3/4" torque wrench that goes up to 300 ft pounds, so we finished things to make it drivable.
A quick test drive revealed a sound coming from the driver side, like something was rubbing. We later discovered through a bit of diagnosis that there were some extra wheel weights inboard of where they should be that were slightly rubbing on the front caliper. So swapped it with the spare and that issues was gone.
The steering wheel is off about 20 degrees, and subsequently the traction control is turned off with an error code. This affects the cruise control, etc. We have an alignment scheduled which will fix all that.
The ride results
No pulling, wandering, rubbing, noises, or any of the items one might have an issue with...other than the off center steering wheel.
On road it is compliant. Going from 80psi to 40 in the front, and 80 to 50 in the rear is night and day both on and off road. This is one of the advantages of going with the newly available E rated 37s from Falken. Before we would have had to use D rated, and rear pressure would be 65psi at the same weight per their tire techs. The added insurance due to higher capacity is a welcome offering.
We took it camping for an overnight, and only noticed after the drive that the topic of road noise literally never came up. It was one of many reasons for going with an AT vs. RT or MT. Either the tires are that good or the sound dampening is that much better. Either way we detected no difference at all. That may change over time, but it is a great starting point.
Irregularities in the road are significantly reduced, and vibration/jarring in the steering wheel from hitting them is all but gone. One could barely hear the rumble strips, nor feel them in the steering wheel. Our dog goes nuts when we brush against a rumble strip normally, and it has caused us to not be able to pass for long stretches without having to deal with significant anxiety for the rest of the trip if we do so. He didn't even notice the tests we performed.
On gravel/dirt the improvement was dramatic. Higher speeds in washboards with less heard/felt. We didn't push the truck too hard, but did push it harder than I would normally drive it for short tests. Washboards, going over yumps and bumps to test compression/rebound, rolling through washes to check g-outs, stopping then accelerating in sand in 2wd, etc. Everything dramatically better with one notable exception.
The rear shocks likely need more slow speed rebound. Head toss his increased from not much at all to some. Rear rebound in certain conditions resulted in the shock oscillating past neutral, then settling at neutral after coming back down. Increasing slow speed rebound will fix all that, and it should be dialed. Before we do so, we will put the full leaf packs on to see if some of the additional rebound is being caused by the extended bump stops. As it sits now, we're an inch away from the bumps when static. The good news, and one reason we went with this shock company, is that they offer one free tuning adjustment with their tuning service. More to follow in the next weeks once we get the replacement heavier duty leaf packs installed and do subsequent testing.
As it is spring packs have shipped, tray isolation mounts are half done, and the tunnel box that will sit between the camper and truck should be shipping in about a week. Plenty more to come.
Lifting a cab/chassis is not for someone who wants turn key, easy button. It is not that it is difficult to do, so much that there is a lack of support and knowledge.
The front of the truck is essentially the same as a traditional 3500, so all the same parts fit. The rear has shorter shocks, different springs, different u-bolts, different clearances, etc. The only answer out there I was able to find was if you paired up with an AEV dealer who knew their secret sauce. Mario at AT Overland does, as per evidence of his Aterra XL truck camper at Expo West the past two years. I reach out, and he told me he could get the parts. I sought quotes, etc. After a bit of back and forth, it seems that the small nature of my project fell through the cracks. Want to build out a full truck with him, you're probably in luck. It's probably a matter of so much demand, and prioritization of clients. AEV themselves were no help at all, despite multiple attempts on my part.
What's the secret sauce in their lift...from what I can gather...is a spacer, longer u-bolts, rear airbags, and moving the stock rear shock lower mounting points up 1" by cutting them off and re-welding them back on. The airbags are optional, and likely were added on for increased weight over the factory leaf's capability.
What it did do for us is forced us to seek alternatives, and come up with our own package.
Not being super thrilled with the lack of response, we moved away from AEV for a lift. We did purchase 5 wheels from them, as we like the way the Saltas are reminiscent of EVO Corsa style wheels on some of the Dakar race trucks. Plan B would have been something like a Method with the bead grip feature.
We reached out to a number of suppliers such as CJC, Thuren, Carly, and a few more as part of the process. In the end we went with nearly all Thuren up front by using the following:
- Thuren HD trackbar
- Thuren 2.25" lift coils
- Their Bilstein front shocks to use in a temporary fashion
- Fox ATS steering damper
- Sumo Springs bump stops
Out back we used their Bogie rear bump stops, and made our own 2" spacers out of 3/16" wall steel square tube.
Other items sourced include:
- Fox 2.5" bypass shocks with adjustable high and low speed compression both front and rear
- Fronts were an easy order, as we only had to provide weights and characteristics of the tune we wanted - note that these are still on backorder, so we're using the Bilsteins for now
- Rears were adapted from a GMC product, with custom tuning and minimal modification of the upper eyelets
- 2" spring spacers for a 4500/5500 by PMF that we had to modify
- Longer u-bolts for a GMC product
Still in the works...in shipment as we're typing... are full rear leafs and appropriate u-bolts specific to measured/projected weights (the spacers were always a temporary fix)
Installation
We started with the rear as it was less turn-key, and we knew there would be issues. Lifting the rear with a 20-ton air over hydraulic bottle jack was easy, but we didn't get it right the first time. Everything had to come up more, so a lot of 2x4 sections were cut to make platforms to achieve the necessary height.
2x 3 ton jack stands in place, with a 20 ton bottle jack as backup. Both front wheels chocked.
A standard floor jack to manipulate/support the axle at various times, and some ratchet straps to move the axle fore/aft for repositioning when putting things back together.
It took time to figure out exactly how to fit the rear shocks since the piggybacks had to clear the frame notches, and exhaust hardware. Upper sleeves were drilled out to fit the factory shock bolts. The PMF spacers required minimal modification, essentially removing some material for the center pin as this setup has a center pin and two bolts for a total of three pieces to align vs. your more standard one centered piece. No issues there other than time.
In all the rear took half the day. We could knock it out in about 3 hours or less on a subsequent attempt. Perhaps less with a proper lift.
Rear wheels mounted, now ready to start the front lift.
The front lift took longer to do, but mostly due to other distractions we had to deal with unrelated to the truck. In essence you lift everything up, block brace, support, etc. to make everything stable and safe.
In the end it is longer shocks, longer springs, swapping out the track bar, and swapping out the steering dampener. The thing that took the longest, believe it or not, were putting the bump stops in. What should have been as easy as pressing them in place...was not. First off, they are different, and I could find no source on which went on which side...which side for each faced inward. After using a bit of common sense, we struggled to get them to press into place. No idea why such a simple task proved so frustrating...but it's done.
The rear reminds me so some older 4 runners suffering from 4-runneritus, but replacement springs will fix that soon.
We could not drive the vehicle the day of the lift, as our torque wrench only went to 150 ft pounds, and we needed to get to 225 on the track bar and 300 on the rear leafs. A trip to the store, and we had a new 3/4" torque wrench that goes up to 300 ft pounds, so we finished things to make it drivable.
A quick test drive revealed a sound coming from the driver side, like something was rubbing. We later discovered through a bit of diagnosis that there were some extra wheel weights inboard of where they should be that were slightly rubbing on the front caliper. So swapped it with the spare and that issues was gone.
The steering wheel is off about 20 degrees, and subsequently the traction control is turned off with an error code. This affects the cruise control, etc. We have an alignment scheduled which will fix all that.
The ride results
No pulling, wandering, rubbing, noises, or any of the items one might have an issue with...other than the off center steering wheel.
On road it is compliant. Going from 80psi to 40 in the front, and 80 to 50 in the rear is night and day both on and off road. This is one of the advantages of going with the newly available E rated 37s from Falken. Before we would have had to use D rated, and rear pressure would be 65psi at the same weight per their tire techs. The added insurance due to higher capacity is a welcome offering.
We took it camping for an overnight, and only noticed after the drive that the topic of road noise literally never came up. It was one of many reasons for going with an AT vs. RT or MT. Either the tires are that good or the sound dampening is that much better. Either way we detected no difference at all. That may change over time, but it is a great starting point.
Irregularities in the road are significantly reduced, and vibration/jarring in the steering wheel from hitting them is all but gone. One could barely hear the rumble strips, nor feel them in the steering wheel. Our dog goes nuts when we brush against a rumble strip normally, and it has caused us to not be able to pass for long stretches without having to deal with significant anxiety for the rest of the trip if we do so. He didn't even notice the tests we performed.
On gravel/dirt the improvement was dramatic. Higher speeds in washboards with less heard/felt. We didn't push the truck too hard, but did push it harder than I would normally drive it for short tests. Washboards, going over yumps and bumps to test compression/rebound, rolling through washes to check g-outs, stopping then accelerating in sand in 2wd, etc. Everything dramatically better with one notable exception.
The rear shocks likely need more slow speed rebound. Head toss his increased from not much at all to some. Rear rebound in certain conditions resulted in the shock oscillating past neutral, then settling at neutral after coming back down. Increasing slow speed rebound will fix all that, and it should be dialed. Before we do so, we will put the full leaf packs on to see if some of the additional rebound is being caused by the extended bump stops. As it sits now, we're an inch away from the bumps when static. The good news, and one reason we went with this shock company, is that they offer one free tuning adjustment with their tuning service. More to follow in the next weeks once we get the replacement heavier duty leaf packs installed and do subsequent testing.
As it is spring packs have shipped, tray isolation mounts are half done, and the tunnel box that will sit between the camper and truck should be shipping in about a week. Plenty more to come.
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WW Cyclist
Member
Wow, awesome job! I have a '23 F-350 Chassis and Cab as well. Struggling to find any support with that one as well. I don't have the time or knowledge to do what you are doing, but you do give me hope. Keep up the good work. It's going to be a fantastic build!
Teaser
Fabrication of tray mount brackets halfway done...waiting on more material, some Delrin, and grade 8 hardware.
Left to right is bottom to top. The nut and bolt will be swapped out with grade 8 material that is not threaded the entire way. The nut will be nylock. Add a washer above the nut, then a 2.35" spring between the two. We may have to swap out springs of different weight depending upon testing. The body mount bushings are Energy Suspension urethane, made for mounting car bodies onto frames. There is a metal sleeve hidden between the two urethane pucks shown, that is also laterally isolated. The gap between the larger urethan bumper and the top plate will be filled with a HDPE (Delrin) spacer. There is a tub of special urethan grease for assembly, and to keep from dealing with squeaking urethane.
The idea is to allow some up travel in all but the rear most mounting position. There are currently eight mounts. So we have to fab up the other three for a total of six floating mounts. If we need more up travel, simply swap out the bolt for a longer one, and add a longer spring.
Fabrication of tray mount brackets halfway done...waiting on more material, some Delrin, and grade 8 hardware.
Left to right is bottom to top. The nut and bolt will be swapped out with grade 8 material that is not threaded the entire way. The nut will be nylock. Add a washer above the nut, then a 2.35" spring between the two. We may have to swap out springs of different weight depending upon testing. The body mount bushings are Energy Suspension urethane, made for mounting car bodies onto frames. There is a metal sleeve hidden between the two urethane pucks shown, that is also laterally isolated. The gap between the larger urethan bumper and the top plate will be filled with a HDPE (Delrin) spacer. There is a tub of special urethan grease for assembly, and to keep from dealing with squeaking urethane.
The idea is to allow some up travel in all but the rear most mounting position. There are currently eight mounts. So we have to fab up the other three for a total of six floating mounts. If we need more up travel, simply swap out the bolt for a longer one, and add a longer spring.
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A box of parts showed up yesterday afternoon, and I had a half hour or so to mess around.
This was a foot long HDPE tootsie roll. Some measuring and an easy cut with the miter saw yielded 6x pucks with the exact thickness needed to space thing apart.
Run them over to the drill press in an attempt to get a hole that is actually perpendicular vs. wonky. Centering didn't need to be perfect, as it is a spacer.
Test assembly, and the spring is a bit long for the bolt.
Chop chop, and we have something that can be used.
I suspect that this length will work for the rear most of the three setups. Probably an inch longer one forward, and two inches longer for the forward most setup is where we'll end up. Doing that is just purchasing some longer bolts and springs, then reassembly.
Still need a bit of 1/4" flat bar so that we can fab up the remaining three brackets. As it is, we get to spend some quality time with a skid steer this weekend around the house. All work and no play...yada yada.
On another note, had the alignment done to Thuren's specs. They normally charge $250 for an alignment, but ended up not having to do much work at all. I walked out of there, my wallet just over $100 lighter. They didn't have to say anything, and I would not have been the wiser. Steering wheel is strait, and the codes are all gone. Contrast that with the first shop I went to. The talk was all about clock springs. After a bit of back and forth I realized they were talking about a rack and pinion system. The guy told me that no one has made any vehicles in like 20 years that still uses a gear box for steering. I guess he's never heard of a Jeep. It was clearly time to move on to a different shop. Glad we found these guys. I'll be going back for sure.
This was a foot long HDPE tootsie roll. Some measuring and an easy cut with the miter saw yielded 6x pucks with the exact thickness needed to space thing apart.
Run them over to the drill press in an attempt to get a hole that is actually perpendicular vs. wonky. Centering didn't need to be perfect, as it is a spacer.
Test assembly, and the spring is a bit long for the bolt.
Chop chop, and we have something that can be used.
I suspect that this length will work for the rear most of the three setups. Probably an inch longer one forward, and two inches longer for the forward most setup is where we'll end up. Doing that is just purchasing some longer bolts and springs, then reassembly.
Still need a bit of 1/4" flat bar so that we can fab up the remaining three brackets. As it is, we get to spend some quality time with a skid steer this weekend around the house. All work and no play...yada yada.
On another note, had the alignment done to Thuren's specs. They normally charge $250 for an alignment, but ended up not having to do much work at all. I walked out of there, my wallet just over $100 lighter. They didn't have to say anything, and I would not have been the wiser. Steering wheel is strait, and the codes are all gone. Contrast that with the first shop I went to. The talk was all about clock springs. After a bit of back and forth I realized they were talking about a rack and pinion system. The guy told me that no one has made any vehicles in like 20 years that still uses a gear box for steering. I guess he's never heard of a Jeep. It was clearly time to move on to a different shop. Glad we found these guys. I'll be going back for sure.
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A few small updates...
Get Sprung
I picked these up from the FedEx freight center on Friday. 143 lbs each, so I should say a FedEx guy helped me pick them up. We should see the correct u-bolts by mid week, with maybe an install next.
Factory springs have 4x micro-springs, which essentially act like a lift spacer. I added another 2" spacer below that as a temporary stop gap to putting larger tires on. These springs were supposed to take a lot longer to make and ship. We probably would have elected to just wait and install these vs. lifting the truck a few weeks ago, but that's how things happen sometimes.
Removing the lift block, and the defacto RAM lift block, will put the axle 4" closer to the actual springs doing the work. This should make for a much better ride, and significantly reduce any negative contributions that we make in adding corrugations on the roads we travel. We're doing it all for you of course
.
Other reasons are to get the vehicle back level, gain a more compliant ride at the loads this vehicle will spend its life beneath, and not have the issue that can present themselves when using airbags.
Speedo Correction
We looked at AEV's ProCal, but in the end chose another option. For about $25 more, including the harness, software, and bluetooth dongle we can now perform nearly all of the computer work that the dealer can. In this case, to correct the speedometer since we put larger tires on.
Ingredients:
Then programming. Everything looks great. Wow that was easy.
Start the vehicle to head out and all kind of lights are going off. Hmmm, not so good. Took it for a test drive. Shifting was back to normal, and drivability as well. What no speedo? Alright let's figure this out.
Que Google, them YouTube and we have an answer. You have to baseline a number of other items linked to the tire diameter, it just doesn't happen automatically. Following the procedure step by step you initialize the ABS and a few other items, and clear all codes. Then good to go. Right now it's reading about 3 MPH off, so I'll have to adjust the tire diameter to account for tire squat which is NOW an easy fix.
And we have a full feature OBD reader/coder capable of diagnostics, programming, realtime monitoring, data collection, etc. Bonus!
Get Sprung
I picked these up from the FedEx freight center on Friday. 143 lbs each, so I should say a FedEx guy helped me pick them up. We should see the correct u-bolts by mid week, with maybe an install next.
Factory springs have 4x micro-springs, which essentially act like a lift spacer. I added another 2" spacer below that as a temporary stop gap to putting larger tires on. These springs were supposed to take a lot longer to make and ship. We probably would have elected to just wait and install these vs. lifting the truck a few weeks ago, but that's how things happen sometimes.
Removing the lift block, and the defacto RAM lift block, will put the axle 4" closer to the actual springs doing the work. This should make for a much better ride, and significantly reduce any negative contributions that we make in adding corrugations on the roads we travel. We're doing it all for you of course
.Other reasons are to get the vehicle back level, gain a more compliant ride at the loads this vehicle will spend its life beneath, and not have the issue that can present themselves when using airbags.
Speedo Correction
We looked at AEV's ProCal, but in the end chose another option. For about $25 more, including the harness, software, and bluetooth dongle we can now perform nearly all of the computer work that the dealer can. In this case, to correct the speedometer since we put larger tires on.
Ingredients:
- KAOdTech Security Module Bypass Harness
- AlfaOBD Software loaded onto a Samsung Tablet
- OBDLink MX Dongle
Then programming. Everything looks great. Wow that was easy.
Start the vehicle to head out and all kind of lights are going off. Hmmm, not so good. Took it for a test drive. Shifting was back to normal, and drivability as well. What no speedo? Alright let's figure this out.
Que Google, them YouTube and we have an answer. You have to baseline a number of other items linked to the tire diameter, it just doesn't happen automatically. Following the procedure step by step you initialize the ABS and a few other items, and clear all codes. Then good to go. Right now it's reading about 3 MPH off, so I'll have to adjust the tire diameter to account for tire squat which is NOW an easy fix.
And we have a full feature OBD reader/coder capable of diagnostics, programming, realtime monitoring, data collection, etc. Bonus!
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