True 4-season truck camper/travel trailer?

[Phil_777]

Hi there! I've been exploring this great forum for months but this is my 1st post. I'm looking for some advice on a somewhat tricky choice to make... Here's the context: the missus and I are starting a family and we're looking for a base camp on wheels to make life easier with future youngsters. We're keen outdoor enthusiasts and we'll use that base camp year-round. We currently live in somewhat-northern QC, so year-round means we're looking for something able to cope with temperatures down to -40F (yes, it gets that cold around here!). That "something" will almost always be used off-grid, for boondocking in remote parks, ski hill parking lots and the like. We're not looking for a palace on wheels, just something very warm and sturdy to sleep in. However, some amenities are a must: standing headroom (I'm 6'2''), room for a sink and 2-burner stove, sleeping for 4x, powerful heater (preferably diesel) and a cassette toilet or porta-potty. We won't do any serious off-roading with it, just forest service roads and mildly rough gravel roads.

I'll be buying a new vehicle to go with the base camp on wheels and the intent is to use that vehicle as my daily driver. I drive about 20k kms a year and with gas fast approaching $1.75 (CaD) per liter here, fuel and maintenance costs are definitely something to consider.

I would prefer to go for a truck and truck camper, however because of the daily driver requirement and a couple of other reasons I'd very much like to avoid driving a 3/4 or 1-ton truck. The 1/2-ton truck with the most payload is the F-150 with HDPP, which would have around 2600lbs of payload (4x4, 8' box). Even with that, it's very difficult to find a light enough, true 4-season camper. A Scout Kenai comes close, but it's still quite heavy when fully loaded (around 1900-2000lbs) and from a friend who owns an Olympic, I know Scouts don't fare all that well in extreme cold (lots of condensation, heater isn't powerful enough). With a 1-ton truck, other options could be a Bigfoot, Northern Lite or Cirrus 820, but I'd end up paying for lots of luxuries I don't care for (e.g. AC unit, wet bath). The only true 4-season camper I've found that would work on a F-150 HDPP is the 9600 shell from Total Composites.

If I can't make it work with a truck and camper, I'd consider a rugged travel trailer and a SUV. Trailers well suited to harsh winter weather and light off-road stuff seem to be pretty rare... Once again, so far Total Composites is pretty much the only true 4-season option I've found, short of a custom or highly modified unit.

Am I missing something? Are there other models (new or used) out there that would work well for serious 4-season use?

Thanks for your suggestions and comments!

 

[billiebob]

No option, you will need an F350/F250...... In the winter good luck getting 10mpg even with a F150. Better to buy a Prius as a commuter.
Which opens the option of a van, A/B/C Motorhome. Plumbing is the big issue at 40 below. The van option simplifies winter travel and heating.

The big factor at 40 below is where will you park/store it. If the camper is stored at 40 below you will not even be able to leave the cassette toilet on board, EVERYTHING that might freeze will need to be packed home. Are $$$/budget an issue or is the sky the limit ??

On a budget a 20 year old RV/Motorhome/Van/Bus might leave enough budget to buy a new Prius.

 

[Jonnyo]

Hi there! I've been exploring this great forum for months but this is my 1st post. I'm looking for some advice on a somewhat tricky choice to make... Here's the context: the missus and I are starting a family and we're looking for a base camp on wheels to make life easier with future youngsters. We're keen outdoor enthusiasts and we'll use that base camp year-round. We currently live in somewhat-northern QC, so year-round means we're looking for something able to cope with temperatures down to -40F (yes, it gets that cold around here!). That "something" will almost always be used off-grid, for boondocking in remote parks, ski hill parking lots and the like. We're not looking for a palace on wheels, just something very warm and sturdy to sleep in. However, some amenities are a must: standing headroom (I'm 6'2''), room for a sink and 2-burner stove, sleeping for 4x, powerful heater (preferably diesel) and a cassette toilet or porta-potty. We won't do any serious off-roading with it, just forest service roads and mildly rough gravel roads.

I'll be buying a new vehicle to go with the base camp on wheels and the intent is to use that vehicle as my daily driver. I drive about 20k kms a year and with gas fast approaching $1.75 (CaD) per liter here, fuel and maintenance costs are definitely something to consider.

I would prefer to go for a truck and truck camper, however because of the daily driver requirement and a couple of other reasons I'd very much like to avoid driving a 3/4 or 1-ton truck. The 1/2-ton truck with the most payload is the F-150 with HDPP, which would have around 2600lbs of payload (4x4, 8' box). Even with that, it's very difficult to find a light enough, true 4-season camper. A Scout Kenai comes close, but it's still quite heavy when fully loaded (around 1900-2000lbs) and from a friend who owns an Olympic, I know Scouts don't fare all that well in extreme cold (lots of condensation, heater isn't powerful enough). With a 1-ton truck, other options could be a Bigfoot, Northern Lite or Cirrus 820, but I'd end up paying for lots of luxuries I don't care for (e.g. AC unit, wet bath). The only true 4-season camper I've found that would work on a F-150 HDPP is the 9600 shell from Total Composites.

If I can't make it work with a truck and camper, I'd consider a rugged travel trailer and a SUV. Trailers well suited to harsh winter weather and light off-road stuff seem to be pretty rare... Once again, so far Total Composites is pretty much the only true 4-season option I've found, short of a custom or highly modified unit.

Am I missing something? Are there other models (new or used) out there that would work well for serious 4-season use?

Thanks for your suggestions and comments!

that is not a easy decision to make. you say ''starting'' a family. does this mean you dont have kids yet? i say this as what you say was me and my wife when we got married. Avid outdoorsy people...honeymoon on Mt Everest in the coldest condition you can imagine, camping in winter in a teardrop trailer etc. Then the kids arrive and 4 season camping isnt fun or practical anymore. mommy dosnt find it fun or enjoyable anymore. And the hardest part of all this is you dont know until you are there. Life will change so much....

So my passion for winter camping as been put on ''hold'' as it s not fun until the kids are a little older. We got a van, we converted it...and it works great for 3 season up to -5 degres C but after that.... it aint as fun anymore! i have 3 kids now.... 4 6 and 8. I camp a good 50 night a year in the mountain of BC/alberta.

looking at all your options.... young kids etc... a trailer as a lot more room then a truck camper. You could even buy a used big foot or northern lite travel trailer and you would have a very solid fiberglass, no frame, no cold bridging winter machine. They are well made and can handle offroad/gravel roads etc. but once again..what is fun now... might not really be fun anymore once the kids arrive!

if you go truck camper....northern lite/ bigfoot camper are amazing winter camping machine. i owned a few and repaired them....they are amazing 4 season machine...as good as it gets. if you make some modification to water system... it will stay warm in those -40.

 

[trackhead]

Any truck camper with outside shower and holding tanks is not four season. Avoid those amenities, that stuff just freezes. If you want diesel heat and four seasons build your own interior (total composite). Then install diesel heater, on demand water heater (indoors won’t freeze), all interior plumbing, dry flush toilet (won’t freeze).

Commercial campers are three season, end of story, or need tank heaters that run on electricity. We gutted our fiberglass camper and rebuilt per above specs, we use it all winter in Yukon (previous) and now Montana. No cold weather issues, ever.


Can also build your own self draining plumbing lines for over night winterization if you turn your heater off. All my plumbing drains quickly if I open a couple valves. Makes weekend trips easier because I never need that RV antifreeze stuff. Can’t do that with commercial rigs.

Build your own one one 3/4 ton, otherwise you will battle winter every time you go out.

 

[turbothrush]

I would go composite for sure with the least thermal bridging you can find. Pay attention not only to window frames but also especially to door frames as they can ice up from condensation thus keep a door from being a door. The fix of course is to keep the moisture from reaching the cold metal. I’ve got a Nothern lite and custom diy composite and this was a problem on both.

The 3 you mentioned Bigfoot / Northern Lite / Total composites is where I would look also. Total composites shell has near zero thermal bridging in the shell itself. If you have the skills and time build out a fiberglass shell

 

[simple]

lots of good advise. Trailer vs truck camper has everything to do with the access you require. I don't think there is anything quite turn key for the kind of cold you're talking about. One slip up with a bigfoot truck camper and you'll have to cut the bottom out to replace the tanks unless you run dry. Running dry with a bigfoot or northern light is a viable option because you'll be warm inside, you just have to get creative to work around the plumbing.

A box from total composites on a 1ton with flatbed or mounted on a trailer with everything inside would be what I would want in your situation. Inside tanks can be swapped out if designed to be in the case that they freeze and split. Another option would be a compost toilet / bucket and an array of plastic Jerry cans for fresh and gray water. It doesn't have to be fancy unless that is what you want.

 

[Phil_777]

Thanks a lot for the input and wise thoughts! I guess I forgot to mention I plan on using the camper in "winterized" mode (i.e. no running water) during the cold months. As for budget, it isn't sky high, I'd like to stay under $50k (CAD, camper only). Truck is on a different budget

If I were to go with a 1-ton truck and a Bigfoot or Northern Lite camper, any specific years/models I should look for in terms of quality of construction?

 

[Alloy]

We went with a trailer for extra space. A 7 day trip with only 8 hours of daylight at -15C you're inside allot. Added to the mix are bickering kids and the smell of drying boots and clothes.

 

[cobro92]

Thanks a lot for the input and wise thoughts! I guess I forgot to mention I plan on using the camper in "winterized" mode (i.e. no running water) during the cold months. As for budget, it isn't sky high, I'd like to stay under $50k (CAD, camper only). Truck is on a different budget

If I were to go with a 1-ton truck and a Bigfoot or Northern Lite camper, any specific years/models I should look for in terms of quality of construction?

I assume your truck is a SRW? If so, then I’d try to stick with the lightest, newest possible 2500 series Bigfoot. 50k can buy a nicer used one. Be careful with weight though. They are awesome campers but heavy as heck.


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[skirunman]

If you are interested in going with a Transit AWD van chassis check out AEONrv, but might not be in budget. Designed for off-road, 4-season use, 22' long so could be used as a daily driver, and will be on Transport Canada's approved import list later this year.

New kid on the block! AWD Transit with composite camper AEONrv

You can see it this weekend at Expo! https://www.motor1.com/news/529371/aeonrv-debut-overland-expo-west/?fbclid=IwAR0SOU7TBSRT324ANCAuVJOGMUvg5AlyKWGpWzZcxoGf52aTy3pNsytpZZQ

expeditionportal.com

 

[Mattig]

Commercial campers are three season, end of story, or need tank heaters that run on electricity.


Build your own one one 3/4 ton, otherwise you will battle winter every time you go out.

Just depends on what winter temps you're dealing with, I suppose. Never winterized the northern lite, but the coldest I've camped was 5 degrees Fahrenheit.

Thanks a lot for the input and wise thoughts! I guess I forgot to mention I plan on using the camper in "winterized" mode (i.e. no running water) during the cold months. As for budget, it isn't sky high, I'd like to stay under $50k (CAD, camper only). Truck is on a different budget

If I were to go with a 1-ton truck and a Bigfoot or Northern Lite camper, any specific years/models I should look for in terms of quality of construction?

SRW trucks line up well with the 9.5ft models. DRW trucks for the 10.5. Some people make the heavy campers work on SRW, but it takes some tinkering, trial, error, etc.

Northern Lite is a couple hundred pounds lighter than bigfoot. I have 6.7l F350 SRW and I wouldn't want anything bigger than my 9.5ft NL unless I step up to 19.5" tires. Would it work? Yes. But not for the way I drive.

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[trackhead]

Just depends on what winter temps you're dealing with, I suppose. Never winterized the northern lite, but the coldest I've camped was 5 degrees Fahrenheit.

Sorry, I'm severely biased when I see campers rated as 4 seasons then see an outside shower that will freeze/burst immediately.

I guess a lot of truck campers have grey/black tanks in the "basement" in heated/insulated area?

 

[Mattig]

Sorry, I'm severely biased when I see campers rated as 4 seasons then see an outside shower that will freeze/burst immediately.

I guess a lot of truck campers have grey/black tanks in the "basement" in heated/insulated area?

Yep, although some do it better than others. In bigfoot and northern lite's basement models (everything remotely recent), it's all well enclosed. I wouldn't say it's anywhere close to as warm as the conditioned space, but with the thermostat at the minimum 45 degrees, I've never frozen anything in my driveway. Temps here never get much lower than the 20s though.

I do know that when I take my skis out of the basement after a 90 minute drive home, they're noticeably warm to the touch.

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[simple]

IMO 4 season is a relative specification and doesn't mean anything other than an RV might continue to function at temps below freezing if all the systems are up and running. The thing with heated tank compartments is that if for any reason the heat stops for a long enough period of time, the tanks will freeze.

At some cold temperature, depending on the design, a heated compartment will not keep up with heat loss and will freeze. This spec isn't available so it's nice to hear peoples experience with it but it only relates to a specific build and the builds vary considerably from model to model and year to year. I don't think there are any standards. When getting into the guts of RV's they're still by and large hand crafted and there isn't much science and testing feeding back into the design.

 

[wirenut]

I don't know of any "off the shelf" camper that's made for those temperatures. I also think you might as well forget about a 1500 series truck. For a truck camper of any kind with a family it's just simply not the right tool for the job. Even for a camping trailer it's probably not what you want. By the time you add the weight of the family, tool box full of stuff, winch, firewood, chairs, generator, etc. you'll barely have any payload left for the tongue weight of even a small trailer.
We had an 11' TC when it was just the wife and I. It was great. Then we had 1 child and it was still fine. Then we had a 2nd child and it was pretty tight but we managed. When the 3rd child was born we spent 2 nights in the TC and decided that this just isn't fun anymore. We sold it and are not looking for a travel trailer with bunk beds; probably around 30' long.
My daily driver/ work truck is a crew cab diesel dually. When I don't need that truck I drive a 2500 Suburban that also pulls the boat. Both ride just fine in my opinion. I don't buy them for ride or fuel mileage. If i want that I'll drive the wife's Impala. I basically have no use for 1500 series "trucks" anymore.