Unimog vs. ....
- Thread starter CornDog
- Start date
Big Truck? Hard to repair/find parts for? Too slow/loud?
Everyone throughout this thread has been saying how BIG a Unimog is. My 416 is actually no larger than an extended cab Super Duty- in length as well as width. The truck fits in a standard sized parking spaces with no problem at all! The best part of parking it in a standard parking space is that I don't have to worry about door dings from the a$$h@l& that parks too close to me- just have to worry about denting his roof when I open my door. If a Super Duty isn't too big for an expedition vehicle why is a Unimog?
Unimog's are pretty easy to work on as well. With a limited amount of tools you can field strip and rebuild a Unimog. Mercedes designed it that way so that they could be maintained in the field. Parts are widely available. My truck is a 1976 and I can still find new parts and have them FedEx'd next day. If you are outside of the US and need help working on a Unimog you should be able to get it because Mercedes trucks are so prevalent in other countries. The older Unimogs are not much different than the round noses which I see everywhere. There's also a great network of Unimog owners around the World who are always happy to lend a sympathetic ear if not a hand or tools wherever you find yourself. Of course, if your Unimog is properly maintained there shouldn't be that much risk in it breaking down on a trip.
Older Unimogs aren't that expensive either. If you look hard you can find a good diesel one for $20-40k. While you might be able to buy a Super Duty for less you can't go as many places. Some people have said that on an expedition you don't want to go that far off road. I'd hate to drive all the way some place far away only to hear about the great little cove or beach that was just a short way down a trail that was a liitle too tough for my rig.
I will grant you that Unimogs can be slow and loud- too slow for freeways sometimes. Truth is when I plan a trip I look for alternate routes so I don't slow traffic down and I can get more to look at than the endless ribbon of concrete in front of me on the Interstate. Every time I go driving in my truck, whether it's down the street or across state lines, I always put in ear plugs. One of these days I'm going to buy a noise cancelling aviation headset.
When my truck was being restored we did a lot of custom work which included lengthening the frame and building a stronger than normal suspension frame for the bed and tool boxes to float on above the twisting frame. In the back of my mind I always envisioned converting the truck to an expedition rig. That's why it only takes undoing four bolts to get the bed off and four more to take all three toolboxes off at once. Originally I thought about using an old truck box for a camper. Then I thought about finding an old Alaskan to use. After reading Carlisle's post I'm beginning to think about having a custom Alaskan built.
The guy who restored my truck also does customized interiors with all the creature comforts like suspension seats, electric windows, DVD players, and more. Some of them were nicer than a Super Duty Lariat. Almost anything's possible. I wanted to be able to hose my cab out so I left mine just painted metal with washable seats. In the end you have to do what's right for you.
Can a Unimog make a good expedition vehicle? I think so.
Everyone throughout this thread has been saying how BIG a Unimog is. My 416 is actually no larger than an extended cab Super Duty- in length as well as width. The truck fits in a standard sized parking spaces with no problem at all! The best part of parking it in a standard parking space is that I don't have to worry about door dings from the a$$h@l& that parks too close to me- just have to worry about denting his roof when I open my door. If a Super Duty isn't too big for an expedition vehicle why is a Unimog?
Unimog's are pretty easy to work on as well. With a limited amount of tools you can field strip and rebuild a Unimog. Mercedes designed it that way so that they could be maintained in the field. Parts are widely available. My truck is a 1976 and I can still find new parts and have them FedEx'd next day. If you are outside of the US and need help working on a Unimog you should be able to get it because Mercedes trucks are so prevalent in other countries. The older Unimogs are not much different than the round noses which I see everywhere. There's also a great network of Unimog owners around the World who are always happy to lend a sympathetic ear if not a hand or tools wherever you find yourself. Of course, if your Unimog is properly maintained there shouldn't be that much risk in it breaking down on a trip.
Older Unimogs aren't that expensive either. If you look hard you can find a good diesel one for $20-40k. While you might be able to buy a Super Duty for less you can't go as many places. Some people have said that on an expedition you don't want to go that far off road. I'd hate to drive all the way some place far away only to hear about the great little cove or beach that was just a short way down a trail that was a liitle too tough for my rig.
I will grant you that Unimogs can be slow and loud- too slow for freeways sometimes. Truth is when I plan a trip I look for alternate routes so I don't slow traffic down and I can get more to look at than the endless ribbon of concrete in front of me on the Interstate. Every time I go driving in my truck, whether it's down the street or across state lines, I always put in ear plugs. One of these days I'm going to buy a noise cancelling aviation headset.
When my truck was being restored we did a lot of custom work which included lengthening the frame and building a stronger than normal suspension frame for the bed and tool boxes to float on above the twisting frame. In the back of my mind I always envisioned converting the truck to an expedition rig. That's why it only takes undoing four bolts to get the bed off and four more to take all three toolboxes off at once. Originally I thought about using an old truck box for a camper. Then I thought about finding an old Alaskan to use. After reading Carlisle's post I'm beginning to think about having a custom Alaskan built.
The guy who restored my truck also does customized interiors with all the creature comforts like suspension seats, electric windows, DVD players, and more. Some of them were nicer than a Super Duty Lariat. Almost anything's possible. I wanted to be able to hose my cab out so I left mine just painted metal with washable seats. In the end you have to do what's right for you.
Can a Unimog make a good expedition vehicle? I think so.
Squob
New member
Joaquin Suave said:
Action Mobil uses MAN trucks, which are extremely tough and have pretty wide parts availability. These EVs are also popular as support vehicles for rallies such as the Dakar, and they can get up a fair head of speed if the engines are big enough! Action Mobil's new Globecruiser 2008 has 520hp from a 738ci turbodiesel.
We have just published English-language details about this model in a light-hearted review:
Action Mobil: Are you MAN enough?
charlieaarons
Explorer
Actually Unicat is recommending MAN for most of their builds also. What surprises me is the preference for MAN over Mercedes Actros, Axor and Atego; which are MAN's direct competitors.
U5000 Unimog is hampered by relatively small 4.8L 218hp 4 cyl motor and ~57mph top speed; U500 has better on-road characteristics and is better offroad than the MAN/Mercedes 4X4/6X6 commercial trucks but much more expensive without any wheelbase or 6X6 options.
Does anyone with direct or 2nd hand knowledge know about frame cracking in MANs? They have 7 or 8mm frames (I think in the 2 smaller series; hopefully at least 9mm in the TGA); U500s are 9mm with an additional 7mm bracing in front. 4X4 Axor (1833) and 4X4/6X6 Actros are 9.5mm.
Charlie
U5000 Unimog is hampered by relatively small 4.8L 218hp 4 cyl motor and ~57mph top speed; U500 has better on-road characteristics and is better offroad than the MAN/Mercedes 4X4/6X6 commercial trucks but much more expensive without any wheelbase or 6X6 options.
Does anyone with direct or 2nd hand knowledge know about frame cracking in MANs? They have 7 or 8mm frames (I think in the 2 smaller series; hopefully at least 9mm in the TGA); U500s are 9mm with an additional 7mm bracing in front. 4X4 Axor (1833) and 4X4/6X6 Actros are 9.5mm.
Charlie
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soenke
Adventurer
Hey,
I like Unimog and we have been travelling accompanied by Mogs.
Still we decided against an Unimog based camperbuild, these are the main reasons:
the weight
is to much for many small bridges
when stuck heavy equipment is required for recovery
no real dune driving possible
the seize
is to wide for the small bush-tracks made by and for LandCruisers or Land Rovers (can be a real problem on mountain roads or in the rain forrest)
no permission to most national parks in Afrika
no fun driving the narrow streets down town in the medina or narrow roads in a forrest
you have to use a platform, container will not work when shipping
the speed
the portal axles are not made to drive miles at high speed as often requires when traveling...adjusting longer gears and bigger oilreservoirs will just help a little
on the other hand we never got stuck where a Unimog could have brought us further....
greetings Sönke
I like Unimog and we have been travelling accompanied by Mogs.
Still we decided against an Unimog based camperbuild, these are the main reasons:
the weight
is to much for many small bridges
when stuck heavy equipment is required for recovery
no real dune driving possible
the seize
is to wide for the small bush-tracks made by and for LandCruisers or Land Rovers (can be a real problem on mountain roads or in the rain forrest)
no permission to most national parks in Afrika
no fun driving the narrow streets down town in the medina or narrow roads in a forrest
you have to use a platform, container will not work when shipping
the speed
the portal axles are not made to drive miles at high speed as often requires when traveling...adjusting longer gears and bigger oilreservoirs will just help a little
on the other hand we never got stuck where a Unimog could have brought us further....
greetings Sönke
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Colorado Ron
Explorer
soenke said:
Those are really great points. I actually forgot about the weight requirements on some of the bridges. That would be a bad deal to get all the way down a road, only to find you cant cross a bridge fearing collapse.
charlieaarons
Explorer
All the points made except the one about portal boxes are valid for all large vehicles, not just Unimogs. If you want a larger camper, you need a larger chassis. If you don't mind tent camping, a Landcruiser is the way to go.
Regarding the portals: in the latest generation of Mogs (U500/5000) the capacity of the portal box has been increased to 700-800 ml, older mogs are as small as 300 ml. That, combined with 47" tires allows the U500 to be rated at a sustained 100kph or even faster.
Charlie
Regarding the portals: in the latest generation of Mogs (U500/5000) the capacity of the portal box has been increased to 700-800 ml, older mogs are as small as 300 ml. That, combined with 47" tires allows the U500 to be rated at a sustained 100kph or even faster.
Charlie
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soenke said:
Some of Sonke's points might be valid for the larger Unimogs like they use for Unicats and the like but I don't think they're valid for the smaller ones like the 416 and 1300.
Weight could be a problem if you don't have the right self-recovery equipment along but duning shouldn't be a problem if you have the right tires.
Size on trails shouldn't be any more problem for a 416 or 1300 as both are only the same width as a fullsize pickup (80"). Are Land Cruisers & Land Rovers any narrower? Driving in town isn't any more of a problem either. I drove my Unimog to work a lot of days when I worked in Portland because its fuel mileage wasn't any worse than my Explorers and I could fit it in a standard parking space. Putting a Unimog in a container isn't a problem widthwise. Heightwise you might run into a problem if you don't get a tall container. Luckily mine is a cabrio so I folded the top down when I backed it into my friend's standard height garage door before going overseas. I had four inches between the top of the garage door and the top of the steering wheel. Some people with hard tops get around this by using a cut down set of wheels to use when putting their Unimog into a container.
Speedwise there is a problem with the older style small Unimogs like the 416. While you can put higher ratio gears in the portal cases (fast axles) and on the diffs (super fast axles) the engine doesn't have the torque on the top end to deal with even the smallest grades then. On the 1300's you can put a turbocharger and get the little extra grunt you need. I drove my 416 long distances pulling as much as 10,000 bls behind it and never had a problem with any part of the drivetrain. I just had to allow for plenty of time for the avg 52mph.
soenke
Adventurer
Sorry, I don´t know very much about Unimogs...but as far as I noticed you have to build your own to get sufficient travel ability...
I agree best base would be a 416 or 1300 maybe with more power and less weight though high/split gears (wich make it heavy again...)....and a lot of other customizing as bigger oilreservoirs on the portals..etc.
The simpler and less heavy technic is the reason for many people here in europe to use the MAN instead.
There is a guy in Germany, Franz Murr who has done a lot with Unimogs, I haven´t seen his page mentioned...
http://www.unimurr.de/forum-unimurr/wbblite/board.php?boardid=28
you have to register to participate.
A friend of ours gut stuck with his modified 1300in Iceland in a snowfield, just broke through the surface with the front tires, hanging 1.5 m above the ground in a kind of snow bridge...he was very lucky that a Mercedes testdrive konvoy came a long with heavy equipment..I´ll ask him if I may post the picture...
What I want to say, his cabin is bigger and more comfortable then ours, rivercrossing is easier for him (with hard ground only!) but his Mog weights about 7t with split gears etc..our Cruiser with HDJ 80 technic and the small hydraulic cabin less than half of that, having about the same horsepower...
our CruiserCampers:
I agree best base would be a 416 or 1300 maybe with more power and less weight though high/split gears (wich make it heavy again...)....and a lot of other customizing as bigger oilreservoirs on the portals..etc.
The simpler and less heavy technic is the reason for many people here in europe to use the MAN instead.
There is a guy in Germany, Franz Murr who has done a lot with Unimogs, I haven´t seen his page mentioned...
http://www.unimurr.de/forum-unimurr/wbblite/board.php?boardid=28
you have to register to participate.
A friend of ours gut stuck with his modified 1300in Iceland in a snowfield, just broke through the surface with the front tires, hanging 1.5 m above the ground in a kind of snow bridge...he was very lucky that a Mercedes testdrive konvoy came a long with heavy equipment..I´ll ask him if I may post the picture...
What I want to say, his cabin is bigger and more comfortable then ours, rivercrossing is easier for him (with hard ground only!) but his Mog weights about 7t with split gears etc..our Cruiser with HDJ 80 technic and the small hydraulic cabin less than half of that, having about the same horsepower...
Charlie, there are a lot of possibilities to avoid tent camping and still have a Cruiser capable of heavy offroading
our CruiserCampers:
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Colorado Ron
Explorer
soenke said:
Its actually an extended halflinger, consider a mini pinz.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
My first overlander interview in South America yielded comments about MAN truck frames breaking.
"MAN – Very good quality heavy trucks (class 7/8) (require special driver’s license in Germany). Medium duty 4x4 MAN trucks sold to overlanding market have lightweight frames. Wolf has seen multiple examples of frame failures on MAN overlanding rigs. He strongly advocates a minimum frame size of 6mm. "
"Most grievous overlanding rig failures:
- Engine falling out after <200 miles of washboard on a new rig.
- Frame failure (multiple examples, all MAN)"
He had a very entertaining, if painful, anecdote about one particular MAN frame failure that was too long to include in the interview.
Bottom line: if you are considering purchasing or building an expedition rig on a MAN chassis, check the frame thickness.
There are also relevent comments about rooftop tents, other European chassis commonly used for overlanding rigs, etc.
The entire interview is here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11983
Regarding frame thickness, Wolf's words haunted me throughout Patagonia. I was constantly wondering if our Fuso's thin 4.5mm frame would hold up to the pounding and washboard those famous (or better said, infamous) roads dish out.
As it turned out, the thin frame of the Fuso survived all of that, only to break on a high Ecuadorian road over an Andean pass a year later. I concur with Wolf's observations in his eight years of overlanding in South America - you need a heavy duty frame to withstand the rigors of the high weights, pitching stresses and rough roads of full time overlanding.
Wandering Snowbird
New member
I know this is an old thread but it is very relevant to me as I've been researching overland vehicles because I plan on retiring in the next short while and want to Overland full time starting in North America and taking the Pan American highway south, and am looking for a vehicle to do it in. I've considered many different options including a Unimog U1300L, Fuso FG, F450 or F550, Toyota Tacoma or Tundra with a flatbed camper like a Four Wheel Camper. I'm 56 years old and would prefer more living space like what a box cabin offers on the back of a Unimog or F550 if I'm going to be living in it for the next few years.
I read here that the Unimog is very dependable for up to 200,000+ miles but am confused as to why then do 2 of the Unimogs I've looked at had to have serious repairs when they both had only about 60,000 miles? Unimog 1 with 60,000 miles: water pump, new turbo and clutch (I understand clutch are wearable items but my experience with F550's indicate that their clutches should last closer to 100,000 miles minimum, are the Unimog clutches a weak point? Unimog 2, ex fire brigade truck with 53000 miles: also new clutch and water pump, seller has been told that the truck received some sort of "factory rebuild" in 1998 but he's unable to confirm exactly what, you wouldn't think a vehicle with only 50,000 +/- miles would require any sort of rebuild?
On one hand I would prefer a Unimog if they're indeed as reliable as I've been told despite what the 2 Unimogs I've looked at have required, and the parts availability should be much better on a Unimog? But, reading about what sort of major repairs these 2 Unimogs have required has made me nervous.
My Overland vehicle goals are; 1) high reliability and "lowish" maintenance (relatively speaking considering that the vehicle will be subjected to a harsher than normal use), 2) ease of parts availability world wide, 3) carry a 7X13 +/- cabin, at least 600 mile fuel range, 100 gallons of drinking water, capacity and GVWR to haul most necessary tools to do common repairs and maintenance, and haul enough equipment and supplies to live off the grid for min 1-2 weeks. It looks like the F550 would be more comfortable and repaired easier while in North America only, while the Unimog would be less comfortable and slower, but parts availability and necessary mechanics are more common world wide??
I look forward to everyone's comments.
I read here that the Unimog is very dependable for up to 200,000+ miles but am confused as to why then do 2 of the Unimogs I've looked at had to have serious repairs when they both had only about 60,000 miles? Unimog 1 with 60,000 miles: water pump, new turbo and clutch (I understand clutch are wearable items but my experience with F550's indicate that their clutches should last closer to 100,000 miles minimum, are the Unimog clutches a weak point? Unimog 2, ex fire brigade truck with 53000 miles: also new clutch and water pump, seller has been told that the truck received some sort of "factory rebuild" in 1998 but he's unable to confirm exactly what, you wouldn't think a vehicle with only 50,000 +/- miles would require any sort of rebuild?
On one hand I would prefer a Unimog if they're indeed as reliable as I've been told despite what the 2 Unimogs I've looked at have required, and the parts availability should be much better on a Unimog? But, reading about what sort of major repairs these 2 Unimogs have required has made me nervous.
My Overland vehicle goals are; 1) high reliability and "lowish" maintenance (relatively speaking considering that the vehicle will be subjected to a harsher than normal use), 2) ease of parts availability world wide, 3) carry a 7X13 +/- cabin, at least 600 mile fuel range, 100 gallons of drinking water, capacity and GVWR to haul most necessary tools to do common repairs and maintenance, and haul enough equipment and supplies to live off the grid for min 1-2 weeks. It looks like the F550 would be more comfortable and repaired easier while in North America only, while the Unimog would be less comfortable and slower, but parts availability and necessary mechanics are more common world wide??
I look forward to everyone's comments.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Except for U500s that were orinally sold in North America, Mogs have to be at least 25 years old to import into the U.S. 15 for Canada. Many are low milage ex military or fire dept.
Translation: Sat around for most of those 15 or 25 years and need a good going through and freshening up.
Translation: Sat around for most of those 15 or 25 years and need a good going through and freshening up.