Unimog vs. ....

[CornDog]

Ok, this may have been beaten to death, but I haven’t seen it anywhere, so I’ll stick my neck out and ask.
Obviously Unimogs are pretty much the ultimate when it comes to off-road capability (short of a tank), but my question is: do you really need it, especially with the increased fuel consumption they bring?
Are there really that many places you can go with a Unimog that you can’t with a “normal” straight axle rig?
Sure, the majority of it comes down to driver ability, but all things being equal, if one want’s to see the world (e.i. Cairo~Capetown, Prudhoe Bay~Tierra De Fuego, etc.) do you really need all the clearance/capability of a Mog, or is it over-kill?

Just fishing for some opinions…

 

[Metcalf]

This is a very good topic....and a touchy one I'm sure.

To do the trips you mentioned you could most likely do them in anything from a Suzuki samurai to a Unimog to a Kamaz or Tatra. I am good friends with the Uptons. They drove a '66 cj5 with two people from alaska to the tip of south America through the Darien gap. Then they took a boat to south africa and drive all the way to Gamvik, Norway. They aren't short people either, Loren Upton is about 6'3".

http://www.outbackofbeyond.com/world.htm

In my opinion you can do it in just about anything with enough patience and fortitude.

The vehicle you take depends on the level of comfort you want to have on your trip and where you want to go. You can't expect to take something like a large Unicat camper everywhere you can a jeep/rover/toyota. There are places that you might be able to get a large truck that you won't be able to get in a smaller vehicle, i.e. deeply rutted roads, deep mud, deep water, etc. It's a personal choice. Do you want to sleep in a tent, a camper, or hotels most of the time? Do you want a bathroom? What do you want to take with you? How many people do you want to take with you? How long do you want to be self-sufficient? To be honest one of the biggest problems with larger trucks is that you can't fit them in the cities you might want to drive through.

My personal choice, at this time, is a smaller Unimog camper. I am trying to build something that can carry a small to med sized camper box, retain all of the off road capability of the Unimog platform while keeping the overall weight a good deal under the GVW to help with long term durability.

 

[Robthebrit]

You could write a book on this subject! Its really not fair to compare a domestic truck to a mog, they are entirely different beasts made for different purposes. The gas milage in a diesel mog is not too bad, I get almost 15mpg from the double cab 416 when driving it flat out. The bigger mogs such as the 1300's gets a little less and the newer more powerful turbo diesel mogs may be as low as 10mpg, my camper mog also gets a little less at about 12-13mpg fully loaded. You can carry a rediculous amount of fuel, my camper has nearly 200 gallons with the tanks and the jerry cans, thats well over 2000 miles or about 1800 miles with just the fuel tanks. Just the weight of the fuel is more than most domestic trucks can carry.

Most people who travel in a mog view the off road capability as an insurance policy, when the vehicle is your lifeline you don't want to be operating near its limits or risk breaking it or getting it stuck. On the other hand, there is no point in using a mog and then sacrificing its offroad ability, there are much better trucks available if you are going to do that. The fuso seems to be a common choice, its faster,quieter, has creature comforts such as AC and probably a little better gas milage. In general I don't think most people would be willing to travel in a mog for thousands of miles, it takes a special breed to drive everywhere at mog speed - 55-60 on the flats and as low as 30 on a good hill. In addition mogs are high maintainence machines, you do have to keep up on the basic stuff such as oil changes (and there is a lot of oil) and lubing.

In return you get a truck that can drive fully loaded over the worst roads in the world for 250,000 miles and barely notice. 45 degree hills, 3+ feet of water or pot holes and rocks 18 inches across can be driven over without a huge amount of skill. Technical driving is fun but when you do it on purpose but it gets tedious quickly. When you are in the middle of nowhere you can't do all the driving, my wife doesn't like the technical stuff but she is happy to point the mog in the correct direction and drive over whatever is in the way. I relax much better when she is driving because I know the truck will deal with most things - you have to be careful to not confuse the mogs ability as your own ability! Having to use technical driving skills for 100 miles of bad road would quickly wear thin.

Travel mogs are typically not mechaniclly modified, you would be a fool to mess with one. You have to think of a mog as a complete system, many people have put V8's in a 404 to get more power only to break the drive train. People put mog axles under jeeps and break them and then say the axles are crap but you never hear of a mog breaking its own axles even though the mog is 2x heavier - its all about the complete system. Fully locking diffs are great but they don't make any sense if a single half shaft can't handle the forces when its driving the only wheel with traction, the truck is fully loaded and the terrain is nasty. This is why a lot of US trucks break because they are not designed as a full system. Most US trucks need heavy mods as soon as they leave the factory do even do what the commercials show them doing, just look at the mods on this forum.

To answer your original question, if you are staying somewhat local and you have a trail ready truck you will get pretty much anywhere a mog will get, in fact in wooded areas you may do better due to being smaller. Look no further than the people on this forum they have been all over the place in domestic trucks.

My mogs are always available for people to test drive, on road or off road.

Rob

 

[Scott Brady]

Many years ago I evaluated and put together a series of categories for evaluating an expedition platform. The Unimog has been number one every time I compare to anything else available.

CAPACITY:
The ability to carry weight in the vehicle. This is measured by payload statistics.

DURABILITY:
The ability of the vehicle to travel rugged terrain, fully loaded without chassis or drivetrain failure with years of continual use.

RELIABILITY:
The ability of a vehicle to perform over long distances and after years of service in rugged terrain without engine, electrical and support system failure due to component malfunction.

CAPABILITY:
The ability of the vehicle to traverse rocky, muddy, crossed axle terrain including deep water crossings, severe side slopes, hill climbs and descents.

Common criticisms of the Unimog are road speeds and driving cabin comfort, both of which I feel are mute. Once you leave Europe or the US, roads speeds are irrelevant, and why the hurry? Cabin comfort can be addressed with nice seats and liners, etc.

The downsides are size in small villages, etc., age of most examples available in the US and repair costs.

If I traveled just for personal experience (no business attached), I would use a Unimog. It fits my personality, performance expectations and needs perfectly.

 

[Blair G]

What Rob said.

I am glad you can type fast....makes it much easier for me. One one other thing regarding mileage is that the 13 mpg that I get with the 1300 is on the freeway doing 60 mph. I have never calculated what the MPG would be at offroad speed. I would have to think it exceeds most vehicles that size (or smaller) carrying a decent amount of weight. Plus they are damn cool!

Blair

Need I say more?

 

[Robthebrit]

Off topic: Is this from the trip when I was in front of you and you burst the tire? Did your finger heal?

Rob

 

[Blair G]

Off topic: Is this from the trip when I was in front of you and you burst the tire? Did your finger heal?

Rob

That was the trip. Nail is back and doing well.

Rob's 416:

 

[haven]

Unimog

The Unimog is a good choice when the road is at its worst. The
problem is that 99% of the time, the road is not bad enough to require
a 'Mog to traverse. So you have to put up with the 'Mog's shortcomings
for that one time when lesser vehicles get stuck.

There are lots of vehicle choices if you keep your weight to less than
10,000 lbs. or if you tow a camping trailer.

Unfortunately, even 'Mogs get stuck sometimes. Here is Stephen Stewart's
camper being pulled out of the mud in Kyrgyzstan by a ZiL 6x6.

The mud here doesn't look bad, but Stephen was up to the axles a few
meters outside the photo frame.

A muddy road is made almost impassable when trucks with extra-tall
tires cut channels in the mud.

This particular road is the absolute worst because there are no trees
or large rocks to use as anchor points for self-recovery.

 

[CornDog]

The Unimog is a good choice when the road is at its worst. The problem is that 99% of the time, the road is not bad enough to require
a 'Mog to traverse. So you have to put up with the 'Mog's shortcomings
for that one time when lesser vehicles get stuck.

I suppose this is what I was driving at. You stated it perfectly. It really does seem that 99% (well, ok, 95%) of "roads" here and in the rest of the world, really don't require what a mog is capable of; when one could just as easily roll over it with a Fuso, Hino, or other similar (albeit modded) vehicle.

I would agree with the point that technical driving over 100 miles would be tedious, but how often is that really necessary? And, does it warrant something a serious as a Unimog?

thanks for all the input!

 

[Scott Brady]

Unless part of your goal is to find the most remote and unpredictable roads for a given route

That is usually mine...

That technical terrain durability also provides increased performance in other areas, like mudslides, washouts, etc. It also means that all of the vehicles components are designed for severe service and should last/not fail in typical travel environments. I like the idea of having that durability and capability always available. Just my opinion though.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

I've driven a couple of mostly 416 diesel models... They are really a big 4WD "TRUCK" being the key word.. The big think IMO is do you need a "truck" (in the traditional sense) versus a SUV or pickup or something more typically passenger vehicle?

If you need a truck don't then it is the best application. If not then it may be a drawback... Like any truck, they weigh a lot more (literally 6-8K lbs. more I think) and are much larger cab size etc.

That said they sure are cool. For me, even USA or not, the 50 mph top speed of the standard models is a big killer.. Even elsewhere in the world, 50 mph would really wear me down.. I drove a 416 standard cab French Troop carrier for a week when I was doing my spring over (I worked for a shop at the time that had a few for sale) and it was great but sure was slow.. Even the (normal) 20 minute commute was a doozie... ..and a little expensive versus my 22 mpg HJ60 at the time...

They also are very loud inside but I think that can be cured with some work. I had to wear earplugs in the 416 Doka otherwise would be deaf the rest of the day. I put several hundred miles in one, one very slow trip to Moab included... The 406/416 models at least were a lot like a big 4WD tractor in truck form.. You can cure this with the fast gears and noiseproofing though... But the gears and replacement parts in general are not cheap and easy to find...

 

[Robthebrit]

Going slow doesn't bother me at all, being high and going slow lets you take time to look around. My 416 does 60 on the flats if you push it, I could probably get it up to 65 if I tweaked the pump a little more - don't forget the speed limit is 55 for trucks, doing 60 easily keeps up with the semis. The camper has fast axles so will do 65 with small tires, with bigger tires and the pump tweaked you are looking at low 70's which faster than I want to go in a mog. If you are going to buy a mog get one that has the axles you want, its not hard to find truck with fast axles, an overdrive or both. Blair's 1300 has the overdrive and cruises at 60 without messing with anything, you can get mid 80's 1300's with overdrive, fast axles, high output engines (OM366LA, 250hp) and they will cruise at 70 going up hill, you can get air con if you really need it.

Noise (and heat) can be a problem, the funny thing is the standard red line of 2800rpm is about when the engine is most noisey. My engine really smoothes out 3100rpm and with all the insulation work I did you can easily talk over it, listen to the radio or talk on the phone. You can get them as quiet as an old Dodge. This is especially true with the square cabs because you are not sitting on the engine.

Comfort is not a problem, you can get air ride seats which are awesome. I put Mercedes car seats in the 416 which are also really comfortable. I have done thousands of miles in a mog and really enjoy it.

Like I said in my first post, each to their own, they are not for everybody.

Rob

 

[Colorado Ron]

Ok--Ill jump in on this one.

Scott, Id really like to see you opinion(using your catagories) and stats comparing the Mog to a Pinzgauer.

I went back and forth on this for over a year. It came down to a couple of items for me. Mostly PRICE!!! You get what you pay for for sure, but the price on some mogs is crazy. In order to haul 7 people(which I needed) you have to get a crew cab. The 1300s that are crew cabs can go for $60k plus. The asking price on this one I believe is $85k:

I can buy alot of Pinz for that kind of money.

Being the biggest and the baddest is a double edge sword. Changing a tire on one of those would beat me down good.:xxrotflma

This pic is a good example of where Im going with this:

Now I could find any farmer with a pickup to pull my pinz out. But reverse the role. How hard would it be to find someone to pull the mog out. I know your suppose to be able to self recover. I agree with that. But Ive seen digging on a mog that took 2 days to get it out. The only thing that can usually pull a mog out of a jam is another mog or equivlant.

The pinz can be parked anywhere and can fit down all city roads. The down fall IMO is the lack of diesel. That was the biggest hold up for me. But my pinz is designed, with its new fuel system, to hold 60 gallons of fuel and 20 gallons in cans. 80 gallons @ 17mpg is 1360 mile range. Thats VERY good for a vehicle this size.

As far as parts availability, its a common air cooled design. Anyone can work on it. Most other countries are familiar with Air Cooled VWs, which is a very similar design if you cant work on it yourself.

I must say that I really think Pinzgauers are really underated. More info here:http://www.offroad-adventure-travel.com/Pinzgauer-about.html

Heres a few pics of some nicely equipped ones that I think can handle their own:
http://picasaweb.google.com/pinzgauer.depository.1/PinzCampers

 

[CornDog]

Going slow...they are not for everybody.

Rob

I'd be the last one to agrue against the merits of a Mog, and that's certianly not what I wanted to do in asking this question. Sure, it's an awesome vehicle that really does blow everything else domestic away.

Metcalf said it well, this is a touchy subject.

I'm just wondering if that 1% of roads that really takes a unimog to traverse justifies the capabilities.

 

[Robthebrit]

Corndog,

Only you can answer that for yourself, all of us are going to see it differently, when you are on that 1% of roads you'll wish you had a mog when you are in death valley in summer that air con starts sounding nice. Like Joaquin said in the US a mog may be your only option regardless whether you need it for payload, offroad capability or any other reason. In Europe there are lots of options, with the Russian and eastern European market opening up there are more choices than ever, pretty much every truck company has an equivalent/competitor to the mog (if you have $80k a new U500 is a really nice middle ground between traditional mog and truck).


Ron,

Getting a mog stuck is kinda scary. I have seen 3 big mogs struggle to pull a fairly lightweight 404 from deep mud. If you get stuck in the middle of nowhere you are going to be looking for a dozer or very large tractor - forget winching!

Rob