Victron Energy: Alternator/Solar Charging - LFP Battery System

[shade]

The biggest that comes is 15A, which is not enough IMO.. I'm going for a ProNautic 1240p if Victron dont release something w/more umph before then.. you could go for the 1260p if you want 0.4C shore charger.

I'm looking forward to charging from an EV spot in the PNW when they wont give me any sunshine..

Thanks, I'll take a look at the PN. Since I'll eventually have alternator charging available to supplement solar charging, and I don't camp near mains power, I'm not interested in higher charge rates.

 

[dreadlocks]

I like the ProNautic being accepting of any voltage worldwide.. since I got a big inverter I dont have to worry about traveling internationally and not running my appliances (since I can run em off inverter).. you can get em in basically any size.

Do you ever do stop overs at friends/family along the way? I frequently do so I'd want something that could get me full, and keep all the DC powered at least overnight.. but Ive got a Genset so I want high charge rates regardless to cut down on its runtime.

at minimum I dont think you wanna go much under 0.2C.. so like 30A?

 

[shade]

I like the ProNautic being accepting of any voltage worldwide.. since I got a big inverter I dont have to worry about traveling internationally and not running my appliances (since I can run em off inverter).. you can get em in basically any size.

Do you ever do stop overs at friends/family along the way? I frequently do so I'd want something that could get me full, and keep all the DC powered at least overnight.. but Ive got a Genset so I want high charge rates regardless to cut down on its runtime.

at minimum I dont think you wanna go much under 0.2C.

I'm usually on the road straight to a destination, with little opportunity or desire to find an outlet. Between a healthy solar source, 0.5C available from the alternator, and comparatively low power demands, I don't see much use for a high output mains charge source. Good manual control is probably more important for me. A 30A charger would be around 0.2C, so a ProNautic 1230P might fit the bill.

 

[burleyman]

Old man lead-acid user here. I've used these inexpensive power supplies for about five years to supplement solar. Only the 30 amp models, in conjunction with an old school analog dc ammeter. Adjustable voltage/current as required to about 15vdc. Switch onboard to select 120/240vac.

12V DC 3A 5A 10A 20A 30A 40A 50A Regulated Switching Power Supply for LED Strip | eBay

12V50A600W: 12V 50A 600W L250 x W120 x D65 mm 1175g. 12V40A480W: 12V 40A 480W L220 x W110 x D50 mm 795g. 12V20A240W:12V 20A 240W 194mm 110mm 50mm 689g. 12V30A360W:12V 30A 360W 220mm 120mm 50mm 809g. 12V5A60W:12V 5A 60W 110mm 77mm 36mm 199g 12V10A120W:12V 10A 120W 158mm 98mm 42mm 367g.

www.ebay.com

 

[luthj]

An AC-DC adapter wired to your solar controller would work well I think. Laptop power bricks are often 90-100W, and output around 19V. Depending on the algorithm your solar controller uses, and the over current protection in the laptop charger, you can usually just connect it straight up.

 

[dreadlocks]

If you want something a bit more quality than a cheap china led power supply check out Mouser/Digikey, they got industrial and medical grade, high 90%+ efficiency, wide range voltage acceptance w/out flipping switches, you can find em w/conformal coatings in just about any voltage you want.. and still cheaper than like a high output ProNautic/Sterling charger.

As long as you get a higher voltage (lower amps) and more wattage than your Solar controller outputs, the controller should be limiting current output below whatever the power supplies max output is.. so no worrying about overloading unless its smaller than your solar chargers output.. infact most of the PSU's I was looking at were most efficient at 80% output, for best results it'd be 20% larger than your solar charger so when its running full tilt, its right at that 80% sweet spot.

 

[Photobug]

Can someone clarify this from my "Smart Solar" charger?

3.2 Grounding ● Battery grounding: the charger can be installed in a positive or negative grounded system. Note: apply a single ground connection (preferably close to the battery) to prevent malfunctioning of the system. ● Chassis grounding: A separate earth path for the chassis ground is permitted because it is isolated from the positive and negative terminal. ● The USA National Electrical Code (NEC) requires the use of an external ground fault protection device (GFPD). These MPPT chargers do not have internal ground fault protection. The system electrical negative should be bonded through a GFPD to earth ground at one (and only one) location. ● The charger must not be connected with grounded PV arrays (one ground connection only) ● The plus and minus of the PV array should not be grounded. Ground the frame of the PV panels to reduce the impact of lightning. WARNING: WHEN A GROUND FAULT IS INDICATED, BATTERY TERMINALS AND CONNECTED CIRCUITS MAY BE UNGROUNDED AND HAZARDOUS.

I am installing my smart solar into a battery box. Does this mean I can wire the grounding screw on the solar charger to a positive block. Is there a minimum gauge wire I need for this? I was about to use a 10 gauge but would not mind something smaller.

Does it need a Ground fault protected? How is this done?

 

[shade]

If you want something a bit more quality than a cheap china led power supply check out Mouser/Digikey, they got industrial and medical grade, high 90%+ efficiency, wide range voltage acceptance w/out flipping switches, you can find em w/conformal coatings in just about any voltage you want.. and still cheaper than like a high output ProNautic/Sterling charger.

As long as you get a higher voltage (lower amps) and more wattage than your Solar controller outputs, the controller should be limiting current output below whatever the power supplies max output is.. so no worrying about overloading unless its smaller than your solar chargers output.. infact most of the PSU's I was looking at were most efficient at 80% output, for best results it'd be 20% larger than your solar charger so when its running full tilt, its right at that 80% sweet spot.

I ordered one of these: Volteq (Mastech) Programmable DC Power Supply HY3020EP 0-30V 0-20A

Voltage & amperage will be fine for anything I'll need, and programmability should add a measure of safety to unattended charging. In addition to charing my LFP battery, I also wanted a general battery charger for my start batteries. It has an automated battery charger function, but I can't download the manual, so I don't know exactly what that means. I think I'll be able to set it up with fully customized charging profiles regardless, which is a feature that's surprisingly hard to find. My main concern is that the interface will be a button mashing mess. We'll see.

 

[dwh]

Can someone clarify this from my "Smart Solar" charger?

3.2 Grounding ● Battery grounding: the charger can be installed in a positive or negative grounded system. Note: apply a single ground connection (preferably close to the battery) to prevent malfunctioning of the system. ● Chassis grounding: A separate earth path for the chassis ground is permitted because it is isolated from the positive and negative terminal. ● The USA National Electrical Code (NEC) requires the use of an external ground fault protection device (GFPD). These MPPT chargers do not have internal ground fault protection. The system electrical negative should be bonded through a GFPD to earth ground at one (and only one) location. ● The charger must not be connected with grounded PV arrays (one ground connection only) ● The plus and minus of the PV array should not be grounded. Ground the frame of the PV panels to reduce the impact of lightning. WARNING: WHEN A GROUND FAULT IS INDICATED, BATTERY TERMINALS AND CONNECTED CIRCUITS MAY BE UNGROUNDED AND HAZARDOUS.

I am installing my smart solar into a battery box. Does this mean I can wire the grounding screw on the solar charger to a positive block. Is there a minimum gauge wire I need for this? I was about to use a 10 gauge but would not mind something smaller.

Does it need a Ground fault protected? How is this done?

There are two things often referred to as "grounds" - creates a lot of confusion. One is the negative power wire, the other is a grounding lug on the chassis of the device.

Better to think in terms of pos/neg/ground.

You connect solar pos/neg to the controller, and connect controller pos/neg to the battery. That is what is meant by "battery grounding".

IF you were installing the setup on a building, you would also have an extra safety wire connecting the metal frames on the solar and the ground lug of the controller to the planet via driven ground rod or cold water pipe or both. That is what is meant by "chassis grounding".

But you don't need the chassis grounding on a portable or vehicle mounted system. It's not tied to the planet anyway. In a big complex setup like a yacht you might want to tie all the metal together, but you don't need it on a camper.

The NEC requirement for a GFCI on the solar/battery side is primarily for systems on a building where the solar might be rigged into 600v strings. Again, not needed on a camper.

Note that a GFCI on the output of an inverter is still a good idea.

 

[Photobug]

IF you were installing the setup on a building, you would also have an extra safety wire connecting the metal frames on the solar and the ground lug of the controller to the planet via driven ground rod or cold water pipe or both. That is what is meant by "chassis grounding".

Thanks for the explanation that helps put it into perspective. Never thought of using this solar in a home. I would need a few more panels.

When it comes to house wiring I am much more knowledgable, having wired my own house, although some codes have changed in the last 20 years. New construction now requires UFER grounding, where the grounding wire is attached to the rebar in the foundation.

 

[shade]

Idunno, 10a more and complete control and monitoring, plus $150 less?

And in the $hi7, a redundancy should one fail - even if it results in a lower rate of charge?

I do wonder about Victron increasing their charge rates for the units. I don't know how long the SmartCharger line has been out but they certainly didn't increase there.

I suppose it all ties in to efficiency vs complexity weighed by use case and others... when cost isn't an issue things matter less. If I found my 300+w solar panel couldn't cut it on day 6 of an 8 day, I'd be more inclined to buy a $150 1000w sportsman inverter generator and battery charger I may already own versus upgrade. Or go ground deploy secondary system, adding redundancy and solving the problem at hand. Either would only have to be in operation long enough to get you home with a working setup to then replenish, and in SHTF compromise.

Whenever the Orion smart becomes available, even for pre-order (drop links if you know!) I'll get one and report findings

@hour

The Orion-Tr Smart manual was released a few days ago, and after reading into the specs, I think it might be a good solution for me after all. It isolates the start & house batteries when the engine isn't running, output voltage is user configurable from 10-15V in 0.2V increments, and my truck's alternator should be capable of delivering 30A without risk of harm. Here's the data sheet. Selling for $263, if it's available. The release was timed nicely after their Smoking Alternator post. It looks like a simple solution for dual battery, alternator charging.



My main question was about programming the Absorption & Float modes:

"When the battery voltage reaches the absorption voltage setting, the controller switches to constant voltage mode. For lead acid batteries it is important that during shallow discharges the absorption time is kept short in order to prevent overcharging of the battery. After a deep discharge the absorption time is automatically increased to make sure that the battery is completely recharged. For lithium batteries absorption time is fixed, default 2 hours. The fixed or adaptive mode can be chosen on the battery settings."

I pulled up the Orion-Tr Smart in VictronConnect / Demo mode, and it appears that it allows setting voltages, bulk timer, etc. Float voltage can be backed down past 10V, or Float can be turned off altogether. Absorption time can be set to 0 minutes. It allows switching to Power Supply mode, with separate 0.1 voltage adjustments for that, too.

 

[shade]

Northern Arizona Wind & Sun is an authorized Victron Energy outlet, and they're having a 6% off sale 10/16 - 10/21, with free shipping on orders over $300. Those are the best prices I've found, so I ordered the Victron hardware I needed. I'll sort the control cabling out once I have a better idea about the system layout.

I also ordered an LG LG360Q1C-A5 360 Watt Monocrystalline Solar Panel that I'll pick up in a few weeks after some Grand Canyon backpacking.

 

[shade]

And ... they said the Orion-Tr Smart is backordered at least seven weeks. Sounds about right.

 

[shade]

Updated system overview. Short of using an all-in-one alternator/solar charge controller, this is as clean as it gets. I like that both the DC-DC charger and solar charge controller are both smart enough that I can regulate charging parameters, leaving the charge disconnect to truly function as an emergency control.

The only significant additions I can foresee will be an approximately 1000W AC inverter, and possibly a second solar charge controller for a 100W panel I may use to allow remote placement. Both will be simple to integrate later.



I haven't had time to open the crate, but the battery is reporting 12.92V, with all cells at 3.23V. When I connected via VictronConnect, it auto-balanced the cells and updated the battery's firmware.

 

[luthj]

I would be curious to see a total cost figure when it's all said and done. Won't be cheap, but lots of power is quite valuable.