VW Westfalia advice.

[stclair]

Hi everyone- I've been following this site for a while, but never post. After thinking it over for a while, my wife and I have decided to purchase a VW Westfalia for the many adventures we have planned. We've recently sold our Landrover, and still have our Jeep, but really think a pop top van would be a great way to travel. We cannot swing a Syncro, so that's out. My question is, which is more suitable for long journeys, a pre 1979 air cooled Westy, or a pre 1991 water cooled Westy? I've had 3 older Bugs when I was MUCH younger, and I'm inclined to go that route. However, are the Vanagons more practical? Any opinions/advice would be appreciated. Thanks!-Colin

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I'll comment on what I have learned from my own experiences. I have owned three baywindows 69,70, and 77. The 69 and 70 were virtually the same, neither pop-tops but had the camper interior. The 77 was my love. Pop-top westfalia, not with the stove. The motor is the type iv 2.0. It put out about 80 some horsepower and I loved it. BUT almost all the parts for the type iv engine, while they maybe stronger and more durable, are atleast twice as expensive as their 1600 counterpart. My wife and I drove that car all over the west coast for the three years we owned her. She, the 77, was stolen and totaled by a meth-head last year. Anyways I loved the simplicity of the fuel injection and being able to repair almost anything on the side of the road. Which can be said for most aircooled vw's. I never ventured much into the water cooled world of vw's except to look at eurovans, but the need for a pickup took me a different direction, for now.

A bunch of good tech info on the baywindow vans can be found here:
http://www.ratwell.com/

and a good community at:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/

Good luck
-Chris

 

[slooowr6]

I had a 86 Westy, it's a 2.1 water cooled engine. It's a great platform for travel it packs a lot for the given foot print. We loved our van but just don't have enough time to go through all the parts that need attestation and the chair is killing my wife's back on long runs. We sold it after 6000 miles.
Make sure you go though the posts on samba and makes all the necessary upkeep. It's a great little van with a lot to offer. I still miss my van.

 

[ntsqd]

Another net forum that will likely bear some fruit: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/index.php

And one that has an almost bewildering array of forums, most of which have no application at all - but one or two might yield a nugget here and there:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/

 

[stclair]

Thanks for all of the input guys. Bike Mech, sorry to hear about the loss of your '77. Your comment about the "roadside repairs" is the reason I think I'm leaning towards an air cooled model. My next question is, are there any years/models to stay away from? Thanks again guys.-Colin

 

[spencyg]

I find it humerous that roadside repair-ability is a selling point, being that I probably would run out of fingers if I've counted the amount of times I've seen these things on the side of the road with the driver in the middle of one repair or another. How about buying a rig that doesn't require roadside repairs??

Spence

 

[stclair]

I find it humerous that roadside repair-ability is a selling point, being that I probably would run out of fingers if I've counted the amount of times I've seen these things on the side of the road with the driver in the middle of one repair or another. How about buying a rig that doesn't require roadside repairs??

Spence

Hmmm. I kinda figure any used camper van that is in my price range is going to have an issue of some sort eventually. I have only basic mechanical skills, so I figure a basic motor is best for me. One thing I forgot to mention is that my wife and I have traveled quite a bit to Central and South America. If we ever decide to drive south, we'd like to draw as little attention as possible. That said, a big RV would draw lots, where little VW vans and other smallish import vans seem to be everywhere. I'd love a nice Sportsmobile, but it just doesn't make sense for us. If you have any other recomendations, please I'm open to anything. Thanks for the advice.

 

[spencyg]

What's your budget? For relatively little money you could find a conversion van with modern conveniences like fuel injection, good headlights, a 70MPH capability... If I had $5k to spend, I'd probably look for a early 90's Ford E350 van with the 7.3L IDI diesel and build the interior to suit.

Spence

 

[stclair]

What's your budget? For relatively little money you could find a conversion van with modern conveniences like fuel injection, good headlights, a 70MPH capability... If I had $5k to spend, I'd probably look for a early 90's Ford E350 van with the 7.3L IDI diesel and build the interior to suit.

Spence

Absolutely an option, however I'm not sure how handy I would be with a more complicated 90's diesel. From what I've read, diesel fuel is very available outside of the US. However, how common are parts outside of the US for a 90's Ford van? I'm not sure. I also feel that really flashy, though cool, is not a good thing when traveling some places. I'll look into it for sure, and thanks for the idea. So how would you go about getting the equipment to outfit an interior for a camper? How much of a modification is that? Thanks again.

 

[HINO SG]

The Type II Microbuses are simple, relatively easy to work on and find parts for in most of the world, but you'll have to decide for yourself whether it can meet your mechanical and comfort requirements.

Might be hard to recommend the Vanagon for travel in the rest of the Americas; the early air-cooled ones would probably be the way to go, or the somewhat rare and even more underpowered 4cyl. diesel version. The watercooled flat four has it's share of weaknesses and was never sold south of the border. The cost of preparing a watercooled Vanagon for a long trip without access to special parts and Vanagon-savvy mechanics is probably the same as a good Ford van or Toyota pick-up.

The only real solution for long-term Vanagon ownership is arguably one of the engine swaps, Subaru and I4 VW at the low end, Ford ZTEC,VW TDI, or other Subaru options at the high end.

 

[Herbie]

The only real solution for long-term Vanagon ownership is arguably one of the engine swaps, Subaru and I4 VW at the low end, Ford ZTEC,VW TDI, or other Subaru options at the high end.

Agreed. I wouldn't feel safe pushing either an aircooled or watercooled VW mill on any sort of "expedition" environment. The aircooled are widely used and easy to service, but very underpowered for anything other than commuter duty. The wasserboxer engines have documented problems with the head gaskets and are not widely seen outside Europe and USA.

For a decent mix of power and reliability, I'd recommend Subaru EJ25 (2.5L 4 cylinder). Turbo motors make more power but are harder to transplant and introduce new failure points. EJ33 flat-6 and the newer 3.0 flat-6 are great engines but bigger still and rarer and thus more costly to source/install.

Any EJ series 4-cylinder will be sufficiently powerful and reliable that I would feel comfortable taking it to Central/South America. I'm not sure I'd worry with spares, but I might keep my USA parts rep number handy in case anything really strange broke and needing replacing.

 

[Grim Reaper]

The Type II Microbuses are simple, relatively easy to work on and find parts for in most of the world, but you'll have to decide for yourself whether it can meet your mechanical and comfort requirements.

Might be hard to recommend the Vanagon for travel in the rest of the Americas; the early air-cooled ones would probably be the way to go, or the somewhat rare and even more underpowered 4cyl. diesel version. The watercooled flat four has it's share of weaknesses and was never sold south of the border. The cost of preparing a watercooled Vanagon for a long trip without access to special parts and Vanagon-savvy mechanics is probably the same as a good Ford van or Toyota pick-up.

The only real solution for long-term Vanagon ownership is arguably one of the engine swaps, Subaru and I4 VW at the low end, Ford ZTEC,VW TDI, or other Subaru options at the high end.

ZTEC would almost make it worth it. The water boxer was a miserable motor. 82 and older were still air cooled. 1.8 and 2.0 is what I cut my teeth on. First car was a 73 412 wagon. Dad had a 72 914 2.0

Great vid of a ZTEC converted Westy Syncro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B9_FeHKlXE

http://www.bostig.com/

 

[HINO SG]

The water boxer was a miserable motor. 82 and older were still air cooled. 1.8 and 2.0 is what I cut my teeth on. First car was a 73 412 wagon. [/url]

might be just a little harsh, the 2.1 can be tamed and there are people who get 175k+ out of a waterboxer in fairy hard driving, it's just that the learning curve to do that is about the same as the Subaru conversion, a motor you can buy in the junkyard for $500 or less.

 

[spencyg]

Absolutely an option, however I'm not sure how handy I would be with a more complicated 90's diesel. From what I've read, diesel fuel is very available outside of the US. However, how common are parts outside of the US for a 90's Ford van? I'm not sure. I also feel that really flashy, though cool, is not a good thing when traveling some places. I'll look into it for sure, and thanks for the idea. So how would you go about getting the equipment to outfit an interior for a camper? How much of a modification is that? Thanks again.

I wouldn't think a 2WD (we ARE talking 2WD, right?) Econoline van would generate much attention south of de' border....certainly not any more than a VW microbus. If you had a solid mechanical platform to start from, and have a bit of woodworking prowess and a little bit of mechanical skills, you could take a contractor van and turn it into a livable camper. It wouldn't have a pop-top, but this might not be a bad thing if you're really concerned with "low key". If you don't think a complete interior retrofit is the right direction for you to be taking, find a decent E150 conversion van already fitted out with a bed. Get a ARB compressor cooler, some camping gear, remove the running boards, and call it a day. If it isn't apparent that I'm not a fan (in any way) of VW products, than I obviously have been behaving myself... :ylsmoke:

Good luck.

Spence

 

[dlbrunner]

I had a late 70's westy that I lived traveled out of for 2 months. In camp it was great, thats about it.

It was scary to drive, it constantly broke down. I have a special hatred for type 4 VW air cooled engines, they were designed by satan himself and forged in the bowels of hell by evil bitter underperforming auto workers.

I originally had an 1800 in it, but when that engine needed a rebuild, I decided to replace with a porche 914 2.0L. It was a good improvement, but still junk.

Learn how to adjust valves otherwise you will have a cracked head.

Plan on long shifts behind the wheel in the mountains, make sure your bowels are clear before driving in wind.

It was nothing more than a money pit that was fun to entertain guests in the front yard.

I don't mean to diss so bad, but I had problem after problem with that westy, perhaps if I was a more patient man, with that special "gift" for living in harmony with vw's I may have liked the van better.

On the other hand the interior was great, the bed upstairs and down were comfy, the stove was great, the little sink, etc...

My gut told me it was a mistake to sell an 89 Toyota pick up in favor of a westy for a trip to AK. It was a huge mistake, being we never made it past seattle.