Warning re Jackery product quality/design

[Martinjmpr]

For anyone who is similarly miffed about things like this when they happen, I urge you to keep your eyes out for ways to support "Right to Repair" legislation with your local and Federal representatives. Various forms of this legislation is in-work in many places in the USA. Small steps like requiring electronics vendors to use re-openable assembly methods (not gluing things closed permanently) and providing wiring diagrams or basic service guides (they way all electronics used to be sold) would go a long way towards keeping a lot of this stuff functioning and out of landfills.

Given that AFAIK these products are all sourced overseas it would take a Federal law to work.

Perhaps if it was phrased as an environmental measure to keep electronic junk out of the landfills it could work. If it was billed as a "consumer rights" law it would likely fail since the opponents of the measure would point out (correctly, FWIW) that such measures would increase costs to the consumer.

Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, a majority of consumers in the US use price as their first, last and only consideration when making a purchase so you can't really blame the manufacturers for making stuff cheap.

 

[Herbie]

A federal law would have the most reach, but if a big consumer state like CA passed a version, you would see design-for-serviceability make its way into a LOT of products in a big hurry. Imagine if Apple had to sell a different iPhone in CA? Everybody would get the benefit.

That said, the real push-back for a "Right to Repair" law comes from some domestic manufacturers. Companies like John Deere are (in)famous for locking down their hardware such that it cannot be self-repaired by their owners, without resorting to hacking service software, etc. This is an entirely different level of Machiavellian BS, but even when it's only cost-driven design decisions, the reality is that serviceability very rarely adds significant cost. I'd bet a sixer of Mexican beer there's nothing wrong with OP's Jackery that couldn't be repaired relatively simply by a qualified tech with access to a service schematic, provided none of the components are glued shut or epoxied to the PWB.

 

[DaveInDenver]

A federal law would have the most reach, but if a big consumer state like CA passed a version, you would see design-for-serviceability make its way into a LOT of products in a big hurry. Imagine if Apple had to sell a different iPhone in CA? Everybody would get the benefit.

That said, the real push-back for a "Right to Repair" law comes from some domestic manufacturers. Companies like John Deere are (in)famous for locking down their hardware such that it cannot be self-repaired by their owners, without resorting to hacking service software, etc. This is an entirely different level of Machiavellian BS, but even when it's only cost-driven design decisions, the reality is that serviceability very rarely adds significant cost. I'd bet a sixer of Mexican beer there's nothing wrong with OP's Jackery that couldn't be repaired relatively simply by a qualified tech with access to a service schematic, provided none of the components are glued shut or epoxied to the PWB.

There's multiple aspects to the decision by Deere (or any other OEM). Part of it is marketing (Buy new!) and overtly protecting their dealer service network but it's also a necessity to prevent hacking (thus putting them on the hook for liability if a safety or regulatory interlock is bypassed, which is why ECUs must be locked to prevent non compliant changes) or outright IP theft. For the record, I'm sure you'd not be surprised that I fully agree with you about Right To Repair, though. Just food for thought that it's not a simple issue. You'd have FCC or EPA telling them one thing (lock your junk down!) with the CPSC or whomever saying another (don't lock down your junk too much!). In this case preventing unnecessarily sending stuff to landfills is I think the right approach. Lifecycle might be that a product needs to be repairable even if it's limited to some number of specialists, which to protect market competition could be limited to independent or qualified people rather than just dealers or the OEM. I also hate the idea of telling someone you have to hold a degree or license or whatever to fix your own devices or cars, though.

 

[Ryanmb21]

I thought this was an analogy of some sort, but I see from later posts that it's just lack of reading comprehension. The solar panels are still stowed and have not been used; no damage. The battery box is the damaged item.

My bad, I'm not familiar with their line.

Same point though, panels, batteries, electronics in general. These items dropped from 25-40" aren't going to survive. Casio G-shock, garmin etrex, probably would. Others, not really.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Same point though, panels, batteries, electronics in general. These items dropped from 25-40" aren't going to survive. Casio G-shock, garmin etrex, probably would. Others, not really.

Precisely, MIL-STD-810. Which for a watch takes a $10 item to $60 or $100 at least. Imagine what a $500 battery pack would go to to survive these conditions. Probably $25,000. There's a compromise between nothing and full-on, though Jackery isn't doing that preferring instead a market where it works until it doesn't and gets tossed. The middle ground would be a $2k battery pack instead of $500 probably. You don't need a battery pack to survive extended submersion at 300 feet but handling a heavy rain would be useful. There's other practices and standards to use, if you're willing to pay for stuff designed and tested for them.

What is MIL-STD-810 on Garmin Products? | Garmin Customer Support

Garmin Support Center is where you will find answers to frequently asked questions and resources to help with all of your Garmin products.

support.garmin.com

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[Herbie]

I agree that it's a complex issue, but there are levels to "protecting their dealer service network" that get pretty close to just "protecting their profits".

A common example is replacing the starter battery. This is a John Deere issue, but also affects a lot of luxury cars (not even particularly expensive ones). On a lot of modern systems, the proper procedure for replacing the starter battery includes using the manufacturers proprietary software to reset a timer setting in the ECU so the computer knows to treat the battery as "new". Otherwise, even though you've physically replaced the battery, the ECU will control the alternator to charge the battery as if it is several years old - a process which both harms the performance and shortens the life of the new battery.

There's literally no reason that this tool couldn't be free/cheap (like the old BMW oil-change indicator reset tools from the 1990s) or that the ability to "reset" the battery clock could be built into one of the many service/option menus on the very capable on-board computers - but instead the company designs the system and on-board software so that the ONLY way to properly perform the procedure is to visit an authorized dealer with access to the factory-licensed ($$$) tool and pay the shop rate for someone else to hook up the tool and press the button.

 

[67cj5]

There's multiple aspects to the decision by Deere (or any other OEM). Part of it is marketing (Buy new!) and overtly protecting their dealer service network but it's also a necessity to prevent hacking (thus putting them on the hook for liability if a safety or regulatory interlock is bypassed, which is why ECUs must be locked to prevent noncompliance to EPA) or outright IP theft. For the record, I'm sure you'd not be surprised that I fully agree with you about Right To Repair, though. Just food for thought that it's not a simple issue.

Trouble is Dave, If the dearlers won't repair it they leave the owners with no other choice but to Open or Hack it, and the liability then shifts On to the owner and not the company so the Company gets off the Hook either way.

I will never buy any product from jackery Ever based on their of willingness to help Vs their objective of selling him a refurbished one, Personally I would of told them if they don't help I will rip them a New One on Every Media and Review page on the Net,

It seems Jackery are nothing but Stock handlers shipping from A to B with Zero Electronic Skills and as such offer Zero when it comes to warranty and they fix around that is If it is a new item they send you a New One but if it is Used then they will sell you a Polished up Demo model, Thats not a Warranty, Thats wiggling a away around the Laws of what a Warranty actually means,

Jackery You Suck.

 

[Ryanmb21]

Trouble is Dave, If the dearlers won't repair it they leave the owners with no other choice but to Open or Hack it, and the liability then shifts On to the owner and not the company so the Company gets off the Hook either way.

I will never buy any product from jackery Ever based on their of willingness to help Vs their objective of selling him a refurbished one, Personally I would of told them if they don't help I will rip them a New One on Every Media and Review page on the Net,

It seems Jackery are nothing but Stock handlers shipping from A to B with Zero Electronic Skills and as such offer Zero when it comes to warranty and they fix around that is If it is a new item they send you a New One but if it is Used then they will sell you a Polished up Demo model, Thats not a Warranty, Thats wiggling a away around the Laws of what a Warranty actually means,

Jackery You Suck.

Get real!

Please identify a similar product/company that would survive this and handle it to your expectation and the price! We'll wait!

Here is a force calculator:

Energy of falling object

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu

 

[DaveInDenver]

I agree that it's a complex issue, but there are levels to "protecting their dealer service network" that get pretty close to just "protecting their profits".

A common example is replacing the starter battery. This is a John Deere issue, but also affects a lot of luxury cars (not even particularly expensive ones). On a lot of modern systems, the proper procedure for replacing the starter battery includes using the manufacturers proprietary software to reset a timer setting in the ECU so the computer knows to treat the battery as "new". Otherwise, even though you've physically replaced the battery, the ECU will control the alternator to charge the battery as if it is several years old - a process which both harms the performance and shortens the life of the new battery.

There's literally no reason that this tool couldn't be free/cheap (like the old BMW oil-change indicator reset tools from the 1990s) or that the ability to "reset" the battery clock could be built into one of the many service/option menus on the very capable on-board computers - but instead the company designs the system and on-board software so that the ONLY way to properly perform the procedure is to visit an authorized dealer with access to the factory-licensed ($$$) tool and pay the shop rate for someone else to hook up the tool and press the button.

Oh, yeah, I know it's a business decision mostly and could be consumer-friendly. The oil change interval on my Tacoma is 5,000 miles before the "maintenance required" light illuminates. It requires holding the odometer trip reset down when you turn the key to on and letting odometer read out count down for 5 ticks to reset. Not rocket surgery nor requires special tools. I imagine the battery life algorithm probably is more than just months, it might be reading charge in/drain out and using calendar age to predict a battery condition. Luxury brands do not like having their buyers get stranded in the rain on their way home from the opera so suggesting going to the dealer for preemptive replacement might prevent such travesties.

 

[MiamiC70]

OP should take his beef to the Jackery Power Users FB page, Jackery Instagram and if purchased on Amazon to Amazon C/S.
Unfortunately, this is what it takes to get actual “custome service“ from many companies.

 

[67cj5]

Get real!

Please identify a similar product/company that would survive this and handle it to your expectation and the price! We'll wait!

Here is a force calculator:

Energy of falling object

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu

You Get Real, It's not about the force or the height or the Quality of the Product, It's about going to them for help and the best they can do is sell you another One, He could of done that all by him self and bought a used one or another brand Again YOU are missing the Point.

I work hard for my money and No Gucci Clad Pen Pusher is going to have me over for the sake of a play on words, They could of helped but that is not their Objective, Sell sell sell and screw the Customer, Any One wanna join my Piramid Scam

Oh Please, Enough Already,

 

[outback97]

It's frustrating that an expensive thing can be rendered useless from a relatively short fall. Jackery's response, while disappointing to the OP, isn't all that surprising to me.

I recently got a GoLabs R300 (similar concept to the Jackery battery pack, but LiFePO4 chemistry) and while I like it so far, it doesn't feel all that robust for camping use. I am sure that dropping it on the ground, even from a low height, would possibly kill it. It's made of fairly cheap, hard plastic.

I am seriously considering making some kind of "exoskeleton" frame for it, or taking it apart and refitting it into a more rugged case. I haven't been able to find any examples online of anyone doing this though, so I'm hesitant to crack open a working item that's not broken, and also not really confident about my ability to do it safely.

I'm sure there is demand for something more ruggedized, but as others have pointed out the price point might be an order of magnitude more and the market willing to pay for that would be so much smaller that it's probably not worth it to very many manufacturers.

If anyone has any examples of DIY ruggedizing these units I'm interested in seeing them, meanwhile I'm probably just going to be really careful in handling mine.

 

[Ryanmb21]

You Get Real, It's not about the force or the height or the Quality of the Product, It's about going to them for help and the best they can do is sell you another One, He could of done that all by him self and bought a used one or another brand Again YOU are missing the Point.

I work hard for my money and No Gucci Clad Pen Pusher is going have me over for the sake of a play on words, They could of helped but that is not their Objective, Sell sell sell and screw the Customer, Any One wanna join my Piramid Scam

Oh Please, Enough Already,

But they did help him out. They discounted the item to get him back on the road. This was a good offer, evidenced by the fact that he took it! He obviously didn't have as good an offer used or from another company, or he would have took it.

 

[67cj5]

It's frustrating that an expensive thing can be rendered useless from a relatively short fall. Jackery's response, while disappointing to the OP, isn't all that surprising to me.

I recently got a GoLabs R300 (similar concept to the Jackery battery pack, but LiFePO4 chemistry) and while I like it so far, it doesn't feel all that robust for camping use. I am sure that dropping it on the ground, even from a low height, would possibly kill it. It's made of fairly cheap, hard plastic.

I am seriously considering making some kind of "exoskeleton" frame for it, or taking it apart and refitting it into a more rugged case. I haven't been able to find any examples online of anyone doing this though, so I'm hesitant to crack open a working item that's not broken, and also not really confident about my ability to do it safely.

I'm sure there is demand for something more ruggedized, but as others have pointed out the price point might be an order of magnitude more and the market willing to pay for that would be so much smaller that it's probably not worth it to very many manufacturers.

If anyone has any examples of DIY ruggedizing these units I'm interested in seeing them, meanwhile I'm probably just going to be really careful in handling mine.

What about using one of those Cheap Knockoff Peli type cases with the foam inserts, that should make it good for at leased a 4ft Dive Me Thinks,

I might have a look in to this my self,

Thanks for the Brain Wave,

 

[67cj5]

But they did help him out. They discounted the item to get him back on the road. This was a good offer, evidenced by the fact that he took it! He obviously didn't have as good an offer used or from another company, or he would have took it.

I think he is more P'd off about the lack of options, even worse when it looks like new and it don't work, Yikes If it had been me I would still be cussing and still not taken my first breath weeks later,

I went with another brand and I have backups but I will be making some Peli Cases fit them while traveling or for use in Cold Weather,