Untrue. If you need more truck forget toyota. The domestic 1/2 tons exceed them in every category for towing and hauling and some cases Tundra is over 1000 pounds less weight capacity. That is significant.
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- Thread starter eyemgh
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Untrue. If you need more truck forget toyota. The domestic 1/2 tons exceed them in every category for towing and hauling and some cases Tundra is over 1000 pounds less weight capacity. That is significant.
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eyemgh
Well-known member
Although multiple posters have given opinions on the legality of exceeding GVWR, I can’t find anything as it relates to non-commercial vehicles. I’d appreciate any references. As it stands, if we’re selective, we minimally exceed GWVR occasionally. We are never even close to GWAR F or R or remotely close to the maximum tire rating. Reading lots of other forums, it’s clear that this is a contentious issue with little to no evidence base cited for nearly all opinions given.
I get that this might be an existential question, but If you don’t exceed GWAR, you replace the OEM tires which are often anemic on non-HD trucks, beef up the brakes and add better sway bars, is the factory specked GWVR germane?
Not trying to incite a flame war. Just trying to learn. Thanks!
I get that this might be an existential question, but If you don’t exceed GWAR, you replace the OEM tires which are often anemic on non-HD trucks, beef up the brakes and add better sway bars, is the factory specked GWVR germane?
Not trying to incite a flame war. Just trying to learn. Thanks!
tacollie
Glamper
GVWR is a manufacturer rating. GAWR and GCWR is more important from a legal stand point. I haven't found a law that address' non commercial vehicles being over GVWR. Commercial vehicles are based on axle weights not GVWRs. I have 2 family members and 2 friends that are LEOs. I've talked to all of them about being overloaded on a half ton and they all said it's not something they look for even though it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. My 2 cents is there aren't laws aimed at passenger vehicles being over weight yet. As states continue to look for money and idiots continue to overload vehicles I think it will become an issue.
We ran out Hawk on our Tundra for 2 years at or just over GVWR. We had zero issues and it never felt unsafe. It handled better than our Tacoma did with a Flippac. We stepped up to a 3/4 for one reason. We are building a flatbed with exterior storage boxes so we are adding a minimum of 500lbs. The larger brakes, full floating rear end, and stiffer frame are great. The additional 1900+lbs of payload is great. There Tundra handled better than the F250 because of the ifs. My wife tells people our 2019 truck handles like a 60s vw bus ?
In hindsight I wish we got the F250 from the start. People ask me all the time about getting a FWC for their midsize and half ton trucks. I tell them it'll work but personally I would only do it on a 3/4 ton and they should look at lighter options for lighter trucks.
We ran out Hawk on our Tundra for 2 years at or just over GVWR. We had zero issues and it never felt unsafe. It handled better than our Tacoma did with a Flippac. We stepped up to a 3/4 for one reason. We are building a flatbed with exterior storage boxes so we are adding a minimum of 500lbs. The larger brakes, full floating rear end, and stiffer frame are great. The additional 1900+lbs of payload is great. There Tundra handled better than the F250 because of the ifs. My wife tells people our 2019 truck handles like a 60s vw bus ?
In hindsight I wish we got the F250 from the start. People ask me all the time about getting a FWC for their midsize and half ton trucks. I tell them it'll work but personally I would only do it on a 3/4 ton and they should look at lighter options for lighter trucks.
Weight adds up quickly in an "empty" truck. Those load range E tires added a solid 20 lbs per corner vs the OE tires. The Hellwig helper springs add weight. Everything in the glove box and console add weight. A compressor and safety gear adds weight. You can't change the MFG GVWR. You already have this rig, so the best you can do is remove any unnecessary weight from the vehicle and make a significant effort to ensure that you don't exceed the FAWR & RAWR when you're loaded. Opting for lightweight options and going light on "extras" while travelling is about the best you can do to deal with the issue now, short of replacing the truck with a higher GVW vehicle, or replacing the camper with a lighter weight model.
Also, pray that you aren't involved in a collision with serious injuries while loaded, especially if you're the party at fault.
Also, pray that you aren't involved in a collision with serious injuries while loaded, especially if you're the party at fault.
billiebob
Well-known member
Wether you are fully loaded legally, or "slightly" over,
Maintenance is critical. I get my oil changes done by a shop twice a year because they do way more than change the oil and filter.
They do a 40? point inspection as well. Brakes, steering, all fluids, lights, driveline, exhaust, I get way more than just an oil change and in 40 years I have yet to break down or need a tow..... except for 3 vehicles with automatics...... I have never been stranded with a clutch.
Maintenance is critical. I get my oil changes done by a shop twice a year because they do way more than change the oil and filter.
They do a 40? point inspection as well. Brakes, steering, all fluids, lights, driveline, exhaust, I get way more than just an oil change and in 40 years I have yet to break down or need a tow..... except for 3 vehicles with automatics...... I have never been stranded with a clutch.
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Yep
No different than my Subaru days with growing kids and bigger bikes to haul. Plus each trip typically has different gear and supplies needs so swapping bike weight for extra water supply etc was a typical move.
Most people upgrade to a heavier platform when braking ability is a noticeable issue. That’s something that ultimately can’t be changed beyond the placebo effect of pad changers lol. Eventually things like short life in wheel bearings and drive bits force those in denial to get heavier vehicles.
Only two of you just pack smart and keep on top of the maintenance ?. But down the road look at the heavy load pack 1/2 tons or the 250’s and up. The heavy load pack 1/2 tons exist for better ride quality and better daily life use when not packed heavy. Neighbors rig is a F150 HD with a full kitted 4wh camper. He’s 100% stock no issues but he packs light and is solo most of the time. He said if he packed more gear he’s probably add helper leafs. But as is its been perfect. In his case the 4whl camper is on it full time. Dedicated camper vehicle ?
Also a bigger full size drives WAY better loaded heavy vs a heavy mid sized. People got to be on some impressive mind altering compounds to say otherwise lol.
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If the Domestics push their Payload too high then they risk cutting into 2500/3500 sales. They also have to adjust how they test the vehicles for EPA MPG i believe which means lower fleet averages.
I would actually say that the domestics are more motivated to reduce the 1/2 ton GVWR's, which is exactly what Ford did in 2015 and GM in 2019. My 2014 F150 is rated at 7700 lbs and the 2015+ trucks are 7050 for the same configuration and they running basically the same underpinnings. Axles are the same, have the same GAWR's, spring rates are the same, the frame is larger, yet still have a lower GVWR.
Option for option, a modern domestic half ton is contending with a lot less mass than a Tundra. Base curb weight for a Tundra crewmax 4x4 is 5640 lbs while an F150 supercrew 4x4 is ~4900. so right off the bat the F150 chassis is stressed by 700 less lbs before you start loading crap in.
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skyfree
Active member
It would probably ride better with those helpers though. I recently went through this and raised the back up to near unloaded height with an add-a-leaf. The truck rides so much better. I'm working with Filthy motorsports on King upgrades and in a more than 1-hour conversation with them I learned that shocks perform best in the 1-inch of travel that is located where the truck would normally sit when unloaded.
It's a cheap upgrade and not that difficult.
I also stay at or below GVWR though. If I needed more carrying capacity I would change trucks. GVWR is GVWR and you aren't going to change that with suspension upgrades. I just have to keep gear to a reasonable level, and I don't have any heavy bumpers or extra armor on the truck.
They also recommend airbags so you can keep it in the same sweet spot when it's fully loaded with gear. I'm not excited about airbags but I might do that down the road at some point.
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
Your are mistaken if you think I suggested running a toyota
OP mentioned Taco's and how people routinely overload them.
Never did I suggest running one. And never would I suggest running one with a camper.
However, for those of you that think a "1/2 ton" Tundra doesn't understate its capacities when compared to a same year 1/2 ton domestic,
the rear axle under each is a great example. And when loaded heavy for long distances IMO, axles, tires, and wheel bearings are the only things that matter, as they are doing the work.
2008 Tundra
Rear axle ring and pinion.... 10.5" <------- This is 3/4 and 1-ton sze
2008 1500 GM
Rear axle ring and pinion.... 8.6"
2008 F150
Rear axle ring and pinon... 8.8"
And for giggles....
2008 Tacoma
Rear axle ring and pinon... 8"
GVWR's have as much to do with govt regulations as they do with actual capabilities of the truck. For example..I believe a Jeep Gladiator in the US has a different payload than the same Jeep Gladiator sold in Australia, what's the difference....different govt regulations concerning truck classes. Don't exceed the axles and tires and you should be just fine. I wouldn't worry too much until you approach 1K over ratings....besides Tacomas seem to do fine a little overweight, although all it takes is a packed lunch and a cooler of beer and your overweight on a Tacoma, ...lol
IdaSHO
IDACAMPER
All far points, but the biggest factor in dictating GVWR for pickups has everything to do with licensing and taxes.
This is why you see so many legit full size trucks with a 9900lb GVWR.
My 2011 superduty is one of them. Add up the actual axle ratings, and you are pushing 14,000lbs.
Keep it below 10k and you are in the sweet spot.
Above that, things get dicey.
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Deleted member 9101
Guest
Actually, the 8.8 was only in the V6 and 4.6 V8 trucks. The 5.4 V8 got a 9.75".
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
And? It's still rated to tow and haul less than an F150 with a 9.75". Evidently that extra 3/4" of ring gear is for nothing...hahaha.
What's hilarious is my measley and inferior SuperCrew F150 with the tiny "Super 8.8" rear end has a higher payload rating than the vast majority of crew cab Tundras.
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