What are Salisbury axles?
- Thread starter shawkins
- Start date
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
Depends on what you want to do. If mild wheeling is all you're going to do with it, the stock axles should be fine. For more moderate-heavy wheeling, you could upgrade the rear (and possibly front) to 24 spline axle shafts and a later 24 spline 3rd member. You might consider keeping the original housings and upgrading to Toyota 3rd members and e-lockers with upgraded axles. I'm pretty sure that option is available out there. That should take care of the axles for everything except the most extreme wheeling.shawkins said:
michaelgroves
Explorer
For a Ninety, my own choice would be the stock axles, but with ARB centres. The centres are the real weak point of the Rover diffs. If you really plan to hammer the vehicle to the point where you might strip the crownwheel & pinion, then you might think about pegging the rear diff as well. I can dig up a link to this if anyone's interested.shawkins said:
What I don't like about the Salisburies is that they are a pig to work on. The diff doesn't come out as complete unit, so all the setup has to be done in situ. And it can need a special spreader tool to get the diff out of the axle! And though it is less likely to break (and therefore less likely to need to come out), it can break, and it is also just as susceptible to damage due to contamination as the Rover type. For what it's worth, it also hangs a bit lower than the Rover type, so your ground clearance is reduced somewhat.
If you do go for a Salisbury, don't forget to factor in that you will need a custom propshaft, as the "nose" of the Salisbury is longer than the Rover's.
revor
Explorer
shawkins said:
Axles depend a lot on what you intend to do with the truck. A Salisbury rear can be built to the hilt, and a Salisbury front is nearly unobtainium.
My preference would be a 35 spline Salisbury rear and a Toyota JF80 front diff stuck in a Rover housing.
Trying not to pimp but if you dig around here you can find some ideas.
http://www.rovertracks.com/products/axles.html
and
http://www.rovertracks.com/tech/index.html
See the guts here
http://www.washbrook.net/Stage 3.htm
and
http://www.washbrook.net/Stage_12.htm
michaelgroves
Explorer
Alaska Mike said:
Good point! My comments about retaining the stock axles was assuming they were the later, 24-spline axles! I'd forgotten that early Nineties (prior to using the name "Defender") used the old 10-spline. They were much weaker than the newer 24-spline type.
Incidentally, I don't know much about the North American spec vehicles, but here in the UK, the (rare) V8 powered Nineties were fitted with a 4-pin version of the Rover diff at the rear, instead of the standard 2-pin centre. It's not an issue if you fit a locking/limited-slip diff centre, but if you're using stock axles, it's a big improvement to have the 4-pin version. The two types are fully interchangeable, either the centres alone (though of course that means a rebuild and setup), or the complete plug-in diff.
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revor
Explorer
Aside from a Salisbury or P38 I've never seen a 4 pin Diff in a NAS vehicle. Highly coveted but (as mentioned) normally folks just put in a Locker. Then they start breaking the "buttery soft" Axles.
Salisbury's hard to work on? Come on that's an understatment!
Of course the upside to that is that you don't have to get inside very often as they are so overbuilt for many applications in a Rover. They're also very good a making crushed stone for the garden..
I question the sensabilty of the Diff pegging argument though, at least here in the States. We can easily install a locked Toyota third with 4.10 gears and axles in a Rover rear rear for under $1000 (not counting labor) It's a hypoid diff and I would wager twice as strong in stock form. In the front we can put the Toyota Diff with axles and CV's that rival that of a 35 spline Dana 60, and again the front diff is much stronger than a Rover type. Downside is the custom nature of the installation. It depends really on where you are and where you are going.
Salisbury's hard to work on? Come on that's an understatment!
Of course the upside to that is that you don't have to get inside very often as they are so overbuilt for many applications in a Rover. They're also very good a making crushed stone for the garden..
I question the sensabilty of the Diff pegging argument though, at least here in the States. We can easily install a locked Toyota third with 4.10 gears and axles in a Rover rear rear for under $1000 (not counting labor) It's a hypoid diff and I would wager twice as strong in stock form. In the front we can put the Toyota Diff with axles and CV's that rival that of a 35 spline Dana 60, and again the front diff is much stronger than a Rover type. Downside is the custom nature of the installation. It depends really on where you are and where you are going.
Mercedesrover
Explorer
Ya gotta be crazy to start putting Toyota diffs in a Land Rover!
Some goof once told me "You should keep your Land Rover all Land Rover!".
Whatever.......
Do the Toyota route and you'll only have to do it once. Best bang for the buck.
Some goof once told me "You should keep your Land Rover all Land Rover!".
Whatever.......
Do the Toyota route and you'll only have to do it once. Best bang for the buck.
sinuhexavier
Explorer
revor said:
Hijack alert...
How about that stuff? FFWD to 2045 and I wonder what long term ramifications that small convenience will cost.
michaelgroves
Explorer
revor said:
Interestingly, I believe the P38 diff also has a 4-pin variation, which was only fitted to the 4.6HSE version of the P38 Range Rover. The rest are all 2-pin.
I'd agree, a locker is then the sensible first step to strengthening the drive-line, although of course it also makes strengthening more necessary! One rule of thumb I try to follow is to make sure the actual axle shafts are the weakest points in the drive-line, as they are the simplest and cheapest to fix! Oddly enough, I've only ever broken one 24-spline half-shaft, though I went through the 10-spline versions as if they were popcorn!
If one were considering changing an entire axle, I don't think I'd argue with the idea of fitting Toy axles. They are indeed bulletproof, and probably offer the best of both worlds - the strength of the Salisbury and the easy accessibility of the Rover type.
revor
Explorer
Yorker said:
I did one once.. Gave it up.. Pointless considering all the other options.. If you plan on going extreme get and Extreme Diff, Dana 60, Ford 9" even Toyota's in some applications.. The little diff designed for a Rover P3 sedan before WW2 just isn't extreme.
I agree that Axleshaft needs to be the weakest part of the driveline. It's a tough call if you consider different gear ratio's. 3.54's are about equal to my shafts, 4.1's I'm not going to bet on the Gear and 4.75's better carry a spare diff with you.
That's whay I like the Salisbury and the Toyota.. Build them and never worry again.. Well to a point right?
Alaska Mike
ExPo Moderator/Eye Candy
To me, with all of the other options available to us for modifying the Rover axle, from relatively drop-in to fairly work-intensive, they seem like a decent platform to build from for moderate-duty wheeling.Yorker said:
Do you mind elaborating on your issues with GBR? If it's more of a personal issue than a business one, I don't want that dirty laundry aired, but if their are valid complaints about their business practices, I'd like to know. I bought a set of greaseable bushings from them and had no problems, and was considering other purchases from them as well. I did notice their internet presence was kinda fly-by-night at times.
Mercedesrover
Explorer
A guy on the G&R board (I forgot who) just had Bill build him a set of diffs. ARBs and pegged. Left a lot of money with the guy too. He sent me pictures of them....I'll see if I can find them.
jim
jim
revor
Explorer
I am curious to see what a ARB'ed Pegged Rover diff costs..
If you think about it Mike, to do a Toy Swap (on a coiler, I leave Series to Jim)
But:
The rear is $575 for all the parts and machining (not including the Diff). A 4 pin Toyota diff can be had with 4.10 or 4.56 gears for $100 in usable condition if you look around. A Lot of guys Drop in a luchbox locker (not my choice but some guys don't have the $$$ for more) for $250 and they have strong locker Rear end for well under a grand.. The labor to actually convert the housing is "grind, drill and weld" Templates are provided so with reasonable care by the DIY guy everything lines up nicely. The front is a different story but only because you need to add CV joint's drive flanges bushings and a bit more machining. But for a Selectable (E Locker $1000) and the bits to do the conversion you are still under $2500. Consider that that allows you ratios that match Dana (see you can fit a Salisbury
) and the diff is that much stronger, no add the axles CV's you are using are all as strong as they can be either with a Coiler or a leafer it's the best bang for the buck.
I get off my soapbox now and let Jim finish :bike_rider:
Mag Chloride.. It's funny, years ago I had usually had to rush to finish a project on my truck to take it wheeling, paint or some protective coating on the steel was the last thing on my mind. It didn't matter because we didn't ever has rust problems here in Colorado.. Then they started using mag chloride, what used to be light discoloration of the unpainted steel in a few weeks is now full on salt bath corrosion complete with Iron Oxide dust.. Add to that the trees' on the sides of the roads are dying everywhere you go in the mountains tells me that we're in for some rusty cars and ugly forests come 2045 all because people are either unable to drive in inclement weather or aren't smart enough to purchase the proper tires. I grew up here and the most corrsive thing that was ever put on the roads was coal ash and gravel. I drop rear wheel drive cars and trucks with Snow tires I went slower and took my time. I didn't have to pay attention to a cell phone or palm pilot, There where 6 radio stations.. There where also many fewer cars on the road. Thta last bit may be the reason they need Mag Chloride.
If you think about it Mike, to do a Toy Swap (on a coiler, I leave Series to Jim)
But:
The rear is $575 for all the parts and machining (not including the Diff). A 4 pin Toyota diff can be had with 4.10 or 4.56 gears for $100 in usable condition if you look around. A Lot of guys Drop in a luchbox locker (not my choice but some guys don't have the $$$ for more) for $250 and they have strong locker Rear end for well under a grand.. The labor to actually convert the housing is "grind, drill and weld" Templates are provided so with reasonable care by the DIY guy everything lines up nicely. The front is a different story but only because you need to add CV joint's drive flanges bushings and a bit more machining. But for a Selectable (E Locker $1000) and the bits to do the conversion you are still under $2500. Consider that that allows you ratios that match Dana (see you can fit a Salisbury
) and the diff is that much stronger, no add the axles CV's you are using are all as strong as they can be either with a Coiler or a leafer it's the best bang for the buck.I get off my soapbox now and let Jim finish :bike_rider:
Mag Chloride.. It's funny, years ago I had usually had to rush to finish a project on my truck to take it wheeling, paint or some protective coating on the steel was the last thing on my mind. It didn't matter because we didn't ever has rust problems here in Colorado.. Then they started using mag chloride, what used to be light discoloration of the unpainted steel in a few weeks is now full on salt bath corrosion complete with Iron Oxide dust.. Add to that the trees' on the sides of the roads are dying everywhere you go in the mountains tells me that we're in for some rusty cars and ugly forests come 2045 all because people are either unable to drive in inclement weather or aren't smart enough to purchase the proper tires. I grew up here and the most corrsive thing that was ever put on the roads was coal ash and gravel. I drop rear wheel drive cars and trucks with Snow tires I went slower and took my time. I didn't have to pay attention to a cell phone or palm pilot, There where 6 radio stations.. There where also many fewer cars on the road. Thta last bit may be the reason they need Mag Chloride.
