What is the deal with Rovers?

[RabidRover]

Ha...good one! I remember that thread, good example of when a person is ready to own a Rover nothing can stop them.

Agreed ... not trying to discourage Rover ownership, just want to make sure folks go in with their eyes wide open. I have owned mine since 1999 and it has never been towed or let me down once but I know if I let my guard down (maintenance), she will bite me :Wow1:

 

[ExpoScout]

Agreed ... not trying to discourage Rover ownership, just want to make sure folks go in with their eyes wide open. I have owned mine since 1999 and it has never been towed or let me down once but I know if I let my guard down (maintenance), she will bite me :Wow1:

Yeah...and in the short time I've owned the D1 I've learned that you have to be borderline OCD to stay on top of everything. Luckily for me, I'm borderline OCD.

 

[Viggen]

Agreed - the last thing I would want to do is to start addressing the quirks of a Rover on a budget. Don't get me wrong, I love my Rover. To own one is to love one. I thought Viggen best summed it up on another thread ... "Im not into driving an appliance. The D1 is a needy little pig but all the time that I have spent on it only makes me like it more. Its weird. I should hate it. Normal people would hate it. Im the opposite."

Haha, I think that that is the first time I have ever been quoted but yeah, Ill stand by it. At the moment, Im not too happy with her but as soon as I fire her back up again, you better believe the love comes back.

Shop time I assume yes (I do all my own work so can't honestly say) but parts, at least for D1's, aren't that bad, especially since a lot of domestic parts fit. But if you don't know about them, then yeah, parts can be expensive.

Not for too much longer. Word is that Tata is starting to abandon some of the D1 stuff. I had to replace my fuel tank because I cracked it (by a skid plate!) and got one of the last few in stock between all the suppliers for the foreseeable future. Why? Tata isnt making the early tanks anymore, thats why.

Bottom line, now is not Rovertime.

 

[Antichrist]

Not for too much longer. Word is that Tata is starting to abandon some of the D1 stuff. I had to replace my fuel tank because I cracked it (by a skid plate!) and got one of the last few in stock between all the suppliers for the foreseeable future. Why? Tata isnt making the early tanks anymore, thats why.

Tata may be, but there are a lot of pattern parts to choose from. Also, if need be, it wouldn't be difficult for me to make my own fuel tank.
Between them and all the domestic parts that fit I'm not terribly worried. If I was I wouldn't own Series Rovers. LOL

 

[Wander]

With the amount of Rovers in europe I think the secondary market will pick up the slack on dissapearing OEM. I do hope Tata takes a close look at that idea-supplying parts for enthusiasts has been a profitable sector of the British motor idustry. The costs have been long past accounted for on the tooling yet they can still pump out peices at a higher margain that before.

 

[TeriAnn]

Tata may be, but there are a lot of pattern parts to choose from. Also, if need be, it wouldn't be difficult for me to make my own fuel tank.
Between them and all the domestic parts that fit I'm not terribly worried. If I was I wouldn't own Series Rovers. LOL

Discontinuing parts after they are out of use for more than 10 years is a policy that fully enforced by the BMW owners. Parts support for 10 years is a legal requirement in some countries and modern bean counters are not spending a pence more than required by law in the markets they are in.

So yes, Disco I and Range Rover Classic parts are being discontinued as well as parts specific only to US spec D90s. The usual aftermarket suspects are not entering the market for these vehicles with pattern parts as was expected.

And since Rover got rid of the tooling for the GM V8 series of engines, quality parts for them are getting harder to find. And it doesn't help that the V8s made for the 1995 and newer models have a much reduced expected service life than the earlier V8s.

Everyone expects you to move up to the next newer Rover every 10 years. It is a pity that the LR3s & newer are nowhere near as rugged at the Discos & RR classic. And that the newer computers work overtime to keep owners from servicing their own vehicles. Nothing like doing a trail repair and having the computer immobilize the vehicle somewhere far away from tow truck access.

If I were a Disco fan, I would buy the nicest 1994 Disco I could find, Fill the garage full of '94 and older Disco & RR 3.9 engines and the back yard full of '94 discos for use as part donors.

But not being a Disco fan I just keep my 50 year old truck going with a combination of newer Series parts, Defender parts and parts off American trucks.

The recession has taken out a lot of the suppliers of Series aftermarket parts but luckily for us Series owners a lot of newer Defender parts are bolt on and being mostly emissions testing exempt, we can choose different drive train bits as needed.

But I think the days of Disco folks are pretty much numbered. Already a lot of enthusiasts are junking Disco Is and replacing them with Disco IIs. What happens after 2014 when parts start becoming NLA for the Disco II?

Us Series folks are likely to start losing access to factory Defender parts around 2024 but thankfully there is a lot of aftermarket support for these vehicles and hopefully will remain so.

 

[Wander]

TeriAnn-I know your in the industry so is your information fact or speculation?

 

[Antichrist]

But I think the days of Disco folks are pretty much numbered. Already a lot of enthusiasts are junking Disco Is and replacing them with Disco IIs.

I'd be surprised if they are doing that because of a lack of available parts for D1's. D1's have more domestic parts that can be substituted than the DII's. Those doing it haven't really thought it out I think.

 

[bcrez]

jk's are alot less reliable than u think.
ive learned about 4000 dollars worth of unreliable..

My JK was in the shop every other week. 2008, from a dealer... 6 factory recalls in 6 months. Poopy car.

 

[TeriAnn]

TeriAnn-I know your in the industry so is your information fact or speculation?

Facts:

The factory is discontinuing parts only used for vehicles older than 10 years. This includes Range Rover Classic, Discovery I and parts specific to US spec Defenders. Mind you all the parts are not being discontinued at the same instant & some parts are still available. It all depends on then the shelves run dry.

US based parts houses are scrambling for NOS parts for these vehicles so they have parts to sell to customers

Everyone expected the aftermarket folks to step in with pattern parts. They have not because they don't feel the market is there considering how far the value of these vehicles have dropped and the costs of stepping into a used version of the net newer model.

Rover has disposed of the tooling to make the aluminum V8 engines

The 3.5L & early 3.9L engines with 14 head bolts often hang in there for as much as 200K miles. The 10 head bolt engines do not last nearly as long. On the power stroke the exploding gases can leak through the head gasket to the outside of the steel liner and down between the steel liner & the aluminum block After a while this punches a hole in the aluminum to the water jacket. You need a new block.

Several of the common UK aftermarket independent LR parts manufacturers have gone belly up during the recession. The UK has stricter laws regarding continued operation of a company that is not turning a profit that the US does.

Speculation:

Disco II only parts will be discontinued then they get to be 10 years old and when the parts on the shelves run out that's it.

A redesigned Defender will be introduced in 2014 and is not expected to have any parts in common with the current Defender so current Defender parts are likely to be discontinued by the factory 10 years later.

 

[Wander]

Thanks TeriAnn-I guess...not good news for us.

 

[Lentsnh]

Really?

If your asking about a diesel D2 in Montgomery, Yes. From what I've heard when I was on the market for a D2 someone told me to check it out. They still want like $23k for it though.


If your asking about if they had diesels from factory, yes as well. Quted from Wiki: "Changes to the diesel engined models saw the 2495 cc Td5 (in-line direct-injected 5 cylinder) engine introduced, in line with the updated Defender models. This electronically managed engine was smoother, producing more usable torque at lower revs than its 300 Tdi predecessor. The Td5 engine is often mistakenly attributed to BMW but the engine was derived from the Rover L-series passenger car engine and developed by Land Rover. The 3948 cc V8 petrol version was given a revised intake system, and rebadged as 4.0 litres at the same time, despite no actual increase in capacity over the previous 3.9 L engine. ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement, an electronically controlled hydraulic anti-roll bar system) was fitted to some versions, which reduced cornering roll. Self-levelling air springs were fitted to some models and European type-approval for 7-seat vehicles was only given for air-sprung cars."

 

[TeriAnn]

Thanks TeriAnn-I guess...not good news for us.

Looking at your vehicle list you are not in too bad a shape.

Your Series truck, along with Defenders are the ultimate tinker toy trucks, and almost no state requires them to be stock with the stock engine.

Even though the factory has discontinued some engine, & gearbox parts AND the aftermarket pattern manufacturers have stepped in with substandard replacement parts you can run just about any engine & gearbox combination you can fit into the engine bay. Advance Adapters has recently stepped in with a series of adapters that will couple just about any common light truck top loader gearbox to a Series transfercase. Mind you they did it for the Land Cruiser owners who want to upgrade to a stronger transfercase but could not afford an Orion. But it works for us Series folks as well.

Most of the Series electric components were used clear across the entire British car industry. and there is a large active group buying and reproducing those so electrical parts are covered.

And of course many Defender parts are a bolt on or reasonably close to bolt on. The Series trucks & Defenders should be in good shape for at least a decade and a half before the need to start collecting spare parts.

You have what some people consider to be the best of the US spec discos with the last of the best engines. If anything, you might start looking for good rebuildable 14 headbolt '94 & earlier engines to stash or find a state that will allow you to do engine swaps on that truck in the future.

It is not all doom and gloom near term. Disco IIs will have parts support for another few years & it takes time for the channels to clear, there will be used parts for a while and most people can always find a work around.

Most people only keep a vehicle for 5 or 6 years anyway. You will be fine in that time frame. It is the silly people like me who hold onto vehicles for over 30 years that have to get really creative. Don't worry about my doom and gloom as most people will get by easily within their normal time of owning a vehicle.

I tend to take a long view because I don't intend to ever sell my Dormobile. At least I haven't yet succumbed to the siren call of a Defender 130 frame that could be built up into the ultimate long wheelbase long range motor caravan

 

[Viggen]

If your asking about a diesel D2 in Montgomery, Yes. From what I've heard when I was on the market for a D2 someone told me to check it out. They still want like $23k for it though.


If your asking about if they had diesels from factory,

Thanks for quoting the Wiki page. We all know that the trucks came from the factory with diesels but never to this country the one at Red Mountain is either a conversion to TD5 power or something fishy is going on. The statement that D2s have diesels is not true in this country. We all wish that it was true but its not.

I agree that I don't expect that manufacturers will be stepping up with parts like some may think. The bottom line is that these trucks, D1s, RRCs and soon to be D2s, are throw away vehicles. Just look at the solutions available to the killer of all Discos and RRCs: RUST. No one makes replacement panels and no one will. I asked Craddocks about it and they said no. If we can't even get common patch panels, I hold no hope for the rest. The tank was just the first warning for me. What will be scary are electrical bits available. If those dry up, I will not be driving an LR for very much longer. There is so much dependence upon them in these trucks its scary. Yes, one might be able to use some domestic stuff with some work but that is a tough option and will require quite a bit of trial and error to make work and will result in fewer trucks remaining on the road. The likelihood of the average owner being willing to spec the fuel pump off an Impala and carry out the needed modification is just not that high. I doubt that Series and Defender parts will completely dry up in the near future but D1 and RRC, I'm waiting. My solution? Rust proof with as much rubber coating as possible an early, non electronic truck and repower with Chevy stuff. Doomsday, I know.

We have got to be scaring the OP.

 

[Antichrist]

There is so much dependence upon them in these trucks its scary. Yes, one might be able to use some domestic stuff with work but that is a tough option and will require quiye a bit of trial and error to make work and will make it even less likely that the trucks will remain on the road.

It's not very difficult to get rid of all of the electronics on a D1. The largest stumbling block is location dependent for the OBDII versions, as you can be limited to engine choices and that can impact what electronics you can get rid of.
Where I live I could get rid of them all in my 95 Disovery.

The likelihood of the average owner being willing to spec the fuel pump with an Impala fuel pump and carry out the needed modification is just not that high.

The "average" owner won't be keeping their cars long, or are unlikely to be buying a used Discovery anyway at the point when the OEM or pattern part fuel pump is NLA. That means more parts vehicles for those of us who do keep them.

My largest concern is things like window seals. Things like that you can't really get used.