What makes Toyotas so reliable?

[Toyaddict]

I’m not defending the issue. I’m just not sold on the idea that it *is still* an issue.

Posting a pic of a vehicle that could have potentially been driven through a decade or more of salt roads every winter with no proactive protection doesn’t tell me that there is still an undeniable frame rust issue with Toyotas.

The real question is what have they changed in their manufacturing process to make it not an issue? I've read many times it's an issue with Dana made frames, are the Japanese made 4runners riding on Dana frames as well then? Did they make the Rear differential housings as well? Even if they fixed the Issue in 2017 2018 whatever it may or may not be there are still a plenty in the wild rusting away.

I'll stop cluttering the thread now and I hope none of this came off as attacking you, if you could post proof they don't have issues after x model year that would be amazing. I feel Toyota would be pretty vocal about any improvements on this front, mainly because they admitted it's a problem by issuing recalls.

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

The real question is what have they changed in their manufacturing process to make it not an issue? I've read many times it's an issue with Dana made frames, are the Japanese made 4runners riding on Dana frames as well then? Did they make the Rear differential housings as well? Even if they fixed the Issue in 2017 2018 whatever it may or may not be there are still a plenty in the wild rusting away.

I'll stop cluttering the thread now and I hope none of this came off as attacking you, if you could post proof they don't have issues after x model year that would be amazing. I feel Toyota would be pretty vocal about any improvements on this front, mainly because they admitted it's a problem by issuing recalls.

i appreciate the discussion, and I don’t feel like you’re attacking me at all. From what I’ve read, Dana didn’t properly coat the frames they made for Toyota for years. Dana has had to pay Toyota $25M for that colossal issue of Tacoma frames rusting prematurely. That was settled in 2011. There is another lawsuit from a couple of years ago that I’m aware of, but it alleges problems in 4Runner frames 2005-2011. I don’t believe there is still an issue. I could not imagine that Toyota would still be paying Dana to build their frames the same way with the same susceptibility to rust.

My perspective is this: you alleged that they still have rust issues. The pic you posted to support this is of a vehicle that probably fell in the time frame (yay puns) of the issue with Dana’s construction process. Which is long past, according to Toyota. Thus, I think your allegation is as yet unsupported.

 

[XJLI]

This was a 2012 4runner w 75k miles on it I looked at over the summer




And this is what my 05 Silverado w 175k looked like when I sold it a month ago



The truck I just bought to replace it came from Colorado and looks brand new.

 

[IdaSHO]

That 4-runner frame is nasty, no matter where in the country it lives.


Didn't GM also do little more than a ??wax?? coating over the frame for years?
From what I've found over the years living up here in the white north,
a paint or coating can be one of the worst things you can do to a frame, if not prepped and applied 100% properly.
Trapping rust beneath the paint, but not converting or sealing it 100% can lead to disaster.

That is assuming all else, metallurgy of the frame itself, weld properties, etc, are all the same.
Some frames are doomed from the factory due to inconsistent metallurgy, or issues arising between forming/welding and paint/coating.

And one more fun bit.... galvanic corrosion and/or electrolysis can also play hell on steel over time.

 

[Desert Dan]

Eiji Toyoda...
Toyoda visited Ford River Rouge Complex at Dearborn, Michigan, during the early 1950s. He was awed by the scale of the facility but dismissive of what he saw as its inefficiencies.[5] Toyota Motor had been in the business of manufacturing cars for 13 years at this stage, and had produced just over 2,500 automobiles. The Ford plant in contrast manufactured 8,000 vehicles a day.[3] Due to this experience, Toyoda decided to adopt American automobile mass production methods but with a qualitative twist.[

Just-In-Time Production ...{Strategos}

Just-In-Time (JIT) was the name used by Toyota before Toyota Production System was coined.

www.strategosinc.com

 

[Over The Silent Planet]

This was a 2012 4runner w 75k miles on it I looked at over the summer

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And this is what my 05 Silverado w 175k looked like when I sold it a month ago

View attachment 635858

The truck I just bought to replace it came from Colorado and looks brand new.

Did both pictured vehicles spend their days in the same climate with the same level of attention given to the frame?

My 2012 4Runner at 135k miles looked better than both. I don’t have any pics of the underside though. Traded it in because we outgrew it.

 

[XJLI]

Did both pictured vehicles spend their days in the same climate with the same level of attention given to the frame?

My 2012 4Runner at 135k miles looked better than both. I don’t have any pics of the underside though. Traded it in because we outgrew it.

Both lived in the same area since new. My stepdad’s 2013 FJ is crustier underneath than my Silverado was as well. The fact is Toyota frames rot away to nothing way faster than anything else. If they’re treated since new and cares for, I’m sure they’ll fair better.

I have nothing against the brand, I had a T100 that was pretty much broken in half and it still drove better than the Chevy did. The new trucks just aren’t for me, and unfortunately the old ones are now collectible and command a price premium.

 

[Todd780]

I'm a Toyota fan but it's still an ongoing issue from what I see. It appears they have preventing body rust figured out better than some makes by now but whatever they are doing wrong with frames is disturbing.

I'm looking for a 5th gen 4runner currently but without undercarriage pictures I'm not driving far to look at them. Even if I buy new or find a southern rig and slather with fluid film religiously the rust will likely set in somewhere.

Here's a picture of a 5th gen 4runner showing the crossmember under the radiator. I look under a ton of vehicles old and new, nothing else seems to rust like this. It's frustrating and Toyota should be embarrassed.

That's crazy! I thought that issue was resolved a long time ago.

 

[HUMMER/Expeditions]

not all Toyota’s are reliable, 90% of first generation 4runners and pick ups had head gasket failure,
80 series land cruiser had head gasket issues
1999 to 2001 Camry had tons of manual transmission issues.
In fact during our last camping trip the only vehicle had made as stranded for few hours was 2007 land cruiser,

But for the most part Toyota is good because it doesn’t reinvent the wheel, they like to perfect it and it works.
And even if some Toyota vehicles have problems, it’s still so small compared to other brands.


I have 2017 Tacoma TRD off road, I bought it brand new, 68.000 miles on it now, interesting vehicle,
reliable, good looking, extremely underpowered and terrible on gas,
However it’s start and go never question if it will get you there.