What Off Road Vehicle For Me?

[Allof75]

"Anyone who is trying to convince you of limited parts availability for the Montero is dead wrong. I can always get the parts i want the same day. Montero parts are also fairly cheap when compared to other manufacturers. I am actually glad I own a Montero because it's so easy to get parts. I can not even say this about my 2009 VW Jetta. It seems like I always have to wait 3-4 days for parts for my new Jetta. Go figure.

I also would not be concerned about the timing belt. You only have to replace it every 80K miles. Usually it is recommended that you replace the waterpump at the same time so I would plan on $700-1000. But that's not as bad as having to rebuild the front axle on an FJ80 every few years."

Well the issue that I'm trying to avoid is one which my friend has run into a few times: a part breaks, it's getting dark, and you have to find that part at a local store. Now the question becomes will they have it (Probably yes if domestic or popular import model) or are you going home on a flatbed? That's the situation I want to avoid-going home on the flatbed, and why I am concerned with the Monteros, because I have a feeling that Pep Boys or NAPA wont have the part when I need it.
I have a feeling the Xterras, because they're very much a frontier underneath, are going to have better availability. This is pretty much the only reason I am avoiding the Monteros.

 

[shmabs]

Edit: allof75, you beat me to it!


I think parts availability is somewhat relative, both to your location and local suppliers. Here in way northern CA (humboldt county) parts for my montero sport were pretty tough to come by. No one locally had spark plug wires for my 3.5, most were a week out or more, same to be said for my thermostat housing gasket, ring gear bolts were a dealer only item from the east coast, so were the carrier bearings. Those same parts for an xj would likely be in stock, save for the ring gear bolts. Don't get me wrong, i knew this ahead of time, i just didn't fully prepare for it. If i had used proper foresight with a few of the aforementioned parts, it wouldn't have been an inconvenience, or if i had a mitsu dealership locally, none of that would have mattered. This may be simply because it was a sport, but i haven't looked at the number of full size monteros vs sports in the states.

To be clear, i'm not knocking the mitsu options at all, now that i am out there test driving and looking at other options, i miss my montero sport, the build quality and construction of it was awesome. Even with my limited parts availability locally, im looking hard and a mid 90's full size montero sr. I just can't get over how well built they are and how much bang for buck you get, the japanese fit and finish and overall quality are awesome.

Bottom line: I can be impatient, i work with aircraft parts availability every day and it drives me crazy. When something goes sour on my truck i had the typical spoiled modern american attitude "i want it NOW!!!" Either way, now that im shopping for a budget 4x4, parts availability is a consideration for me.

YMMV

Mike

 

[Allof75]

Any reason for the 'Pre-'97 XJ' ?

I've had a few, and worked on many of them. IMHO, the '98 & '99 were the best years of the XJ, especially the ones with the Chrysler 8.25 rear axle.

My '99 was an unlimited, with leather seats (no heat, driver side was power)

I built a platform in the back, and with the driver seat full forward, had over 7' of room (diagonally) for sleeping.

Extremely capable off road, while maintaining decent road manners.

The HO 4.0L motor and AW4 trans are bulletproof, and even modified they will get 16+ MPG

The '00 and '01's had the low pinion D30, and the heads that had casting problems.

(yeah, I'm a little Jeep biased :coffeedrink: )

I am looking at the 96 specifically because they have better safety ratings and are cheaper than the other, later models. They have the reinforced doors and airbags but retain the classic look, OBD II, 4.0, and high-pinion d30. I prefer the way they look too.

 

[4D55 Performance]

Well the issue that I'm trying to avoid is one which my friend has run into a few times: a part breaks, it's getting dark, and you have to find that part at a local store. Now the question becomes will they have it (Probably yes if domestic or popular import model) or are you going home on a flatbed? That's the situation I want to avoid-going home on the flatbed, and why I am concerned with the Monteros, because I have a feeling that Pep Boys or NAPA wont have the part when I need it.
I have a feeling the Xterras, because they're very much a frontier underneath, are going to have better availability. This is pretty much the only reason I am avoiding the Monteros.

You mentioned popular imports. I think the 1990's Montero definitely fits that description. The sold nearly 1 million Gen II/II.5 Monteros during the 90's here in the states. That's a lot of any car. Another thing you may want to consider is Mitsubishi's are a lot more reliable than any domestic make of vehicle. I have put 100K miles on my 1985 Mitsubishi diesel pickup and it has never left me stranded. It now has over 300k miles and I feel it has 300k still left in it. I had a 1991 Gen I Montero with 220K miles on it and it never left me stranded either. Mitsubishi trucks and SUVs are very reliable vehicles and rarely will you need to make a trip to the parts store.

I have found that O'rielleys and Autozone are the best for carrying Montero parts not to mention the dealer. The best online dealer is Rockauto. It seems that NAPA does carry replacement parts, but they are not the rebadged OEM parts like you find at autozone and rockauto.

 

[Allof75]

While I doubt that Monteros are more reliable than "any domestic", if their parts are available at an AutoZone or O'Rielly's then that is excellent, and may sway my decision. Reliability for me includes the ability to go to a parts store in an emergency and actually find the parts you need, expecially things that can cause issues like calipers, pumps, etc. Thank you for the help!

To the couple that suggested a 1st gen Explorer, I have already had one, a 1991 Eddie Bauer, and put on 160k miles over 10 years. Towards the end of its life it began to eat parts, especially the tranny and brakes, and would like to avoid that situation again. That and I didn't like the way it handled with the TTB and the general lack of safety. Thank you anyway.

Any other suggestions?

 

[4D55 Performance]

While I doubt that Monteros are more reliable than "any domestic", if their parts are available at an AutoZone or O'Rielly's then that is excellent, and may sway my decision. Reliability for me includes the ability to go to a parts store in an emergency and actually find the parts you need, expecially things that can cause issues like calipers, pumps, etc. Thank you for the help!

To the couple that suggested a 1st gen Explorer, I have already had one, a 1991 Eddie Bauer, and put on 160k miles over 10 years. Towards the end of its life it began to eat parts, especially the tranny and brakes, and would like to avoid that situation again. That and I didn't like the way it handled with the TTB and the general lack of safety. Thank you anyway.

Any other suggestions?

I recommend you do some more research on the Montero. They are extremely reliable. The Montero is arguably the most reliable vehicle ever built. Up until 10 years ago the Dakar Rally consisted of stock vehicles racing against one another. The few modifications included larger tires, safety improvements and upgraded shocks. The Montero absolutely dominated the Dakar Rally when they raced stock vehicles because they were so reliable. Multiple times Mitsubishi only entered 2 vehicles in the Dakar and they would finish 1 & 2. While the Montero does not make the best rock crawler because it lacks articulation, you would be hard pressed to find a more capable and reliable SUV when it comes to going fast in the dirt. They can take a licking and keep on ticking. It's sad that today's Dakar Rally consists of million dollar buggies with a fiberglass shell that somewhat resembles one of the dealers SUV's. I miss the good old days.

 

[Allof75]

I recommend you do some more research on the Montero. They are extremely reliable. The Montero is arguably the most reliable vehicle ever built. Up until 10 years ago the Dakar Rally consisted of stock vehicles racing against one another. The few modifications included larger tires, safety improvements and upgraded shocks. The Montero absolutely dominated the Dakar Rally when they raced stock vehicles because they were so reliable. Multiple times Mitsubishi only entered 2 vehicles in the Dakar and they would finish 1 & 2. While the Montero does not make the best rock crawler because it lacks articulation, you would be hard pressed to find a more capable and reliable SUV when it comes to going fast in the dirt. They can take a licking and keep on ticking. It's sad that today's Dakar Rally consists of million dollar buggies with a fiberglass shell that somewhat resembles one of the dealers SUV's. I miss the good old days.

I don't doubt that they are reliable, it's just that when someone says any domestic being less reliable, it gets on my nerves. There are plenty cases of Panther Platform Fords, Chevy, Ford, and Dodge Pickups, and Jeep Cherokees along with several other domestic vehicles lasting well past 300k miles, with minimal maintenance.

Anyway, how many Monteros are afflicted with the valve-guide issue I keep hearing about, and is it fatal if said vehicle develops it? Also, is the timing belt/water pump etc. a PITA like it is to do the sparkplugs? Are they both projects I, with moderate mechanical skill, could tackle?
You seem to be a Montero expert, so any answers are much appreciated.

 

[Allof75]

EDIT: Sorry Double Post

 

[4D55 Performance]

I don't doubt that they are reliable, it's just that when someone says any domestic being less reliable, it gets on my nerves. There are plenty cases of Panther Platform Fords, Chevy, Ford, and Dodge Pickups, and Jeep Cherokees along with several other domestic vehicles lasting well past 300k miles, with minimal maintenance.

Anyway, how many Monteros are afflicted with the valve-guide issue I keep hearing about, and is it fatal if said vehicle develops it? Also, is the timing belt/water pump etc. a PITA like it is to do the sparkplugs? Are they both projects I, with moderate mechanical skill, could tackle?
You seem to be a Montero expert, so any answers are much appreciated.

I don't know if I am a Montero expert or not. I have owned many different SUV's and trucks through the years and I have notice several vehicles are head and shoulders above the others. I have owned 4 Jeeps, 2 FJ80's, 2 Monteros, several GM's and Dodges and a few other odds and ends like a Toyota pickup, a few Isuzus, and a tote goat. While I have never owned a Ford I feel they are very similar to other domestics. Over the years I have owned over 20 4x4's and two were standouts. The FJ80 and the Montero. Personally I prefer the Montero because it has more head room and leg room and I am 6'7". It also seems to have more power thanks to the gearing. But the biggest difference is the MPG. The Montero will get up to 24 MPG on the freeway while the FJ80 gets 14 MPG. Both vehicles are very reliable and built to last a lifetime.

The valve seal issue really isn't an issue at all. It's not fatal, nor is it even much of an issue. You may burn a little oil at start up but it goes away. The reason it's an issue in my opinion is it can shorten the life of your catalytic converters. But it is not detrimental to the life of engine itself. People may just give you funny looks from time to time. I have never had this issue with any of my 5 Mitusbishi's I have owed over the years. I have only had leaking valve guide seals on my 1990 Chevy Silverado 4x4 and it did it from day one from the dealer.

I really don't worry about the timing belt, water pump or the plugs. The plugs are a one and done thing if you go with the lifetime iridium plugs. The water pump and timing belt is something you will probably change once every 7-8 years. If you change it now, it probably won't be due again until 2020.

Over the years 4x4TV has done several reviews of the Montero and they can't say enough good things. The reviews from 4x4TV are an excellent source in my opinion because they place just as much emphasis on offroad ability as they do on road handling. Most reviews look at stupid things like step in height, cup holders and 0-60 times. Other reviewers also complain about 4x4's having a rough ride and being tipsy in the corners. What do you expect, it's a 4x4. I want it to have a stiffer suspension and a higher center of gravity than a sports car. I want to know, how does it drive in the dirt. What's it like at high speed in the dirt, Rock Crawling, hill climbing etc. Anyway it's an interesting review and they see what I see in Montero's, German engineering with Japanese reliability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gYJCNPYJTM

 

[Allof75]

It's great to hear Monteros get such excellent mileage!

And thank you for putting the maintenance issues into perspective for me, now that I realize it's more of a once in a few years or decade I'd be messing with the timing belts and such.

I checked Rockauto for parts- the sheer multitude was astounding, and smothered any anxiety over parts availability. I now feel confident that parts are available when I need them, and are even (fairly) inexpensive. I think a whole timing belt kit was all the way down to the low $200s.

Two more questions, sorry I just want to be sure of what I could be getting into.
Can the valve seal issue be remedied with replacing parts and if the issue does occur, will it risk fouling up the plugs?

Thank you so much 4D55 Performance!

 

[red87]

The valve guide seal issue is fixed by just replacing the seals.

 

[4D55 Performance]

It's great to hear Monteros get such excellent mileage!

The MPG are pretty good when compared to other SUV's. In stock for you should average 18-20mpg with mixed driving. This is all dependent on driving style, altitude, etc.

I have never heard of the valve guide seals leaking and having it result in fouled plugs but I guess it's possible. I would not be to concerned about the seal issue. It's a pretty easy fix and I think it's like $20 for the replacement parts from rockauto. The seal are not really faulty, they just have a tendency to get old and the just don't work like they did when they were new 15-20 years ago. So if you replace them they should be good for another 15-20 years.

 

[Allof75]

The MPG are pretty good when compared to other SUV's. In stock for you should average 18-20mpg with mixed driving. This is all dependent on driving style, altitude, etc.

I have never heard of the valve guide seals leaking and having it result in fouled plugs but I guess it's possible. I would not be to concerned about the seal issue. It's a pretty easy fix and I think it's like $20 for the replacement parts from rockauto. The seal are not really faulty, they just have a tendency to get old and the just don't work like they did when they were new 15-20 years ago. So if you replace them they should be good for another 15-20 years.

Very good then! That was my last major qualm with the Monteros, and it seems to be both minor and cheap if it really bothers me. The report on mileage is excellent and a massive improvement from the 9 mpg I usually get in my truck (which I'm not replacing, but will just use for hauling etc.). So now I just have to keep my eyes peeled, and hopefully come July I can pick one up. If I do I'll be sure to post here!

This is by far the best forum I am a member of, and with the most helpful/friendly patrons.

Thank you very much!

 

[Martinjmpr]

Montero...

I owned a 1st gen Monty for 7 years. It is actually the vehicle I owned for the longest period of time and the most miles I ever put on a single vehicle (about 128,000 from 1992 to 1999.)

Re: Valve Guide Seals: The 1st gen (1982-91) 3.0 V6 engines almost all have this problem. That's the bad news. The good news is that this is not the kind of problem that will leave you stranded by the side of the road. The only detrimental effect is that it will cause you to burn oil (though I suppose this can damage the Cat if you let it go long enough.) My Monty started exhibiting the excess oil burning problem around 80k. At that time I was about to leave active duty and start college so I had no money to fix it, and I didn't. I just checked the oil every time I filled the tank and I was fine. By the time I got to around 140k miles, it was burning a quart of oil every 1,000 miles and putting out a nice blue cloud of smoke. I eventually spent the $$ to get the problem fixed, IIRC it was about a $1400 cost to basically have the top end rebuilt.

Other than that, the only time my Monty left me on the side of the road was the one time I let it run out of gas.

I don't know if the 2nd gen (92-99?) Monty's had the valve guide problem, I know they used a different engine than the 3.0 that was in mine.

I had no hesitation taking my Monty on a solo trip to the Black Rock Desert and Death Valley in May of 1998, when it had about 110,000 miles on it.

My Monty was still running good when I sold it in 1999 for $3300 (not bad for a vehicle with nearly 150k on it and some body damage on the left side where I got a little too intimate with a telephone pole!)

As for parts availability, most of my ownership of my Monty was in the pre-internet era. I would imagine it's better nowadays, but if you think about the kinds of parts that commonly wear out (filters, brake parts, etc) most of these are not brand- or model-specific, so I think that you may be worrying a little too much about that. The kinds of parts that are very model-specific are also not the kinds of things that are likely to break without giving some warning or notice.

 

[4x4junkie]

To the couple that suggested a 1st gen Explorer, I have already had one, a 1991 Eddie Bauer, and put on 160k miles over 10 years. Towards the end of its life it began to eat parts, especially the tranny and brakes, and would like to avoid that situation again. That and I didn't like the way it handled with the TTB and the general lack of safety. Thank you anyway.

Any other suggestions?

Well, I don't think you would find too many parts more ubiquitous than for an Explorer...
From your post it sounds like you've become dead-set on something with airbags, so that would certainly eliminate this gen Ex.

I don't know much about the Monteros, however I can tell you they are not popular at all in my area. I would have the same concerns about walking into Autozone/Napa/O'Reilly's/etc. and everything being a special-order-only item you'd have to wait for.

I'd probably lean toward the Jeep XJ in this case simply because it doesn't have the A-arm IFS that is unlikely to satisfy the 1st & 8th requirements spelled out in your 1st post, however IMO it's a pretty crude vehicle compared to most of the others being mentioned here (and is instead unlikely to meet your req. #3, and some possibility of #5 too).


Good luck.