What truck/camper combo won't shake apart off road, i.e. Dalton Hwy?

84FLH

Active member
Regarding the decision to change the gear ratios in axles, this is mostly done when a significantly larger than OEM tire is installed. Usually paired with a suspension lift. When installing selectable lockers, the gears are removed so if you know you want larger tires, it best to plan ahead and do it all at the same time.

An easy way to think about larger tires and gear ratios is this. If you put larger tires on, it is like always starting out in second gear and you may never use fifth gear. With an automatic transmission you might not notice it as much but its not optimal for many reasons.

Changing gears compensates for increased tire diameter and makes the vehicle operate in the ways that it was intended (brakes not included)LOL.
Thanks, simple.

Questions:

Regarding the decision to change the gear ratios in axles, this is mostly done when a significantly larger than OEM tire is installed.
> Does tire size (height, diameter, profile) determine which gear ratio should be used? Is there a chart of optimum ratios for "X" tire size, for "X" weight/type vehicle?

If you put larger tires on, it is like always starting out in second gear and you may never use fifth gear. With an automatic transmission you might not notice it as much but its not optimal for many reasons.
> Is this what happens if you put bigger tires on and don't change gear ratios?

When installing selectable lockers, the gears are removed so if you know you want larger tires, it best to plan ahead and do it all at the same time.
> Are the removed gears replaced with new gears in a new ratio?

Usually paired with a suspension lift.
> What dictates the amount of suspension lift, the tire diameter or the new gear ration?

Thank you.
 

84FLH

Active member
Also keep in mind that GM makes an all wheel drive full size van that can make a good camper if you don't get too crazy about where you take it. Lots of good info on that here on Expedition Portal in the 4wd/2wd camper van forums.
Thanks deserteagle. Those GM vans have a long wheelbase that leaves very little overhang in the rear, unlike extended body E vans.
 

84FLH

Active member
Lots of options around here for rentals. I would strongly suggest renting a few different types of vehicles and spending a decent amount of time in each. Spending that money now will save you time and money later. Full size truck and camper, converted van, camp trailer, etc,. It takes time and experience actually doing it (not reading about it, no matter how effective of a learner you are and you appear to be invested which is great) to understand what you need vs what you think you need at this point. Also what you need and want changes with experience - which is why experience can't be replaced as it shapes what your needs become. Without trying your options prior i can guarantee you your first purchase won't be your last. PandM gave sound advice.

Not with the least intent to sound condescending, only speaking from experience and seeing what i used to think 20 years ago to now. Have had fullsize truck and camper, multiple roof top tents, pop ups on mid size trucks, hardside on mid size trucks, canopy setup and have always used ground tents at or away from the vehicle with years of extensive prolonged time year round in the wilderness (on foot) in BC and the Yukon.
Not condescending at all, NVLOC. Good advice and I appreciate your input. May be renting camper van or Toyota with RTT in AK this late Jul/Aug. Would've already reserved but had very sick family member I had to attend to.
 
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TGK

Active member
Lots of options around here for rentals. I would strongly suggest renting a few different types of vehicles and spending a decent amount of time in each. Spending that money now will save you time and money later. Full size truck and camper, converted van, camp trailer, etc,. It takes time and experience actually doing it (not reading about it, no matter how effective of a learner you are and you appear to be invested which is great) to understand what you need vs what you think you need at this point. Also what you need and want changes with experience - which is why experience can't be replaced as it shapes what your needs become. Without trying your options prior i can guarantee you your first purchase won't be your last. PandM gave sound advice.

Not with the least intent to sound condescending, only speaking from experience and seeing what i used to think 20 years ago to now. Have had fullsize truck and camper, multiple roof top tents, pop ups on mid size trucks, hardside on mid size trucks, canopy setup and have always used ground tents at or away from the vehicle with years of extensive prolonged time year round in the wilderness (on foot) in BC and the Yukon.
You reference having experience with a wide spectrum of camping/exploration vehicles over the years? It's also been my experience that needs & preferences change over time and that is likely common for many others who've done this for a long time. So, given your background of experiences, I'm curious about what type of vehicle setup you use nowadays, assuming you have one. Trailers, campers, tents?
 

rruff

Explorer
So much good, practical advice. Thank you.

Can you expound a bit on regearing an E250/350? What's the purpose of regearing? More speed? More torque? To better match bigger tires? Is there a chart/formula/etc for what gearing works best with what tire size?

What, if any, are the downsides of regearing?

More torque; easier to crawl and to compensate for bigger tires. For a loaded overlanding setup, I'd want the gearing a lot lower than stock... if possible. You lose a little highway MPG is all.

I just did a quick search and it looks like they quit making the vans in 2014 and they only had a 4spd? They still sell the chassis though, with an upgraded drivetrain. Might be best to look at new/newer chassis + service body; if you can find an insulated one that might be ideal. Or a GM van which are still made.

I'd get the lowest gear (highest ratio) rear differential as possible and add a locker at the same time. I've not researched these myself since I was only looking at trucks, so do your homework! I don't know what is available. I thought they'd share axles with the trucks, but maybe not.
 

simple

Adventurer
Questions:

Regarding the decision to change the gear ratios in axles, this is mostly done when a significantly larger than OEM tire is installed.
> Does tire size (height, diameter, profile) determine which gear ratio should be used? Is there a chart of optimum ratios for "X" tire size, for "X" weight/type vehicle?
Tire diameter is the dimension that determines the gear ratio. I'm not aware of a vehicle specific chart but the information is pretty standard. If you zero in on a specific vehicle and look at builds, you will see lift and tires and maybe gear ratios. If not, you could ask. A gear vendor would also be a good source.

If you put larger tires on, it is like always starting out in second gear and you may never use fifth gear. With an automatic transmission you might not notice it as much but its not optimal for many reasons.
> Is this what happens if you put bigger tires on and don't change gear ratios?
Yes. You can increase tire diameter to a point without needing to change gear ratios but after that is will be sluggish and hard on the drive train.

When installing selectable lockers, the gears are removed so if you know you want larger tires, it best to plan ahead and do it all at the same time.
> Are the removed gears replaced with new gears in a new ratio?
If the original gears are in good shape they can be reused.

Usually paired with a suspension lift.
> What dictates the amount of suspension lift, the tire diameter or the new gear ration?
Usually a person identifies a tire size they think is necessary to navigate a given terrain or carry a certain load. They then determine if the vehicle needs to be raised up to avoid interference between the tire and vehicle body. (Most lifts and big tires running down the highway are purely to stroke the drivers ego LOL).

For a camper setup I would stick with a slightly larger than stock tire that performs well and doesn't require lift or gear change. Adding a camper raises the center of gravity enough without lifting the truck.

Too large a tire wont fit under the bed and will need to be mounted on the outside adding another required mod.


Distilling all of this down, you will likely want a 1ton truck with single rear wheels. If the truck doesn't have a factory limited slip rear end, a selectable rear locker would be awesome. Keep the stock gear ratios and run a slightly larger tire. Trim fenders where necessary. If you find you are limited by tire size you can always increase those things later. The smallest lightest camper will go the furthest away from maintained roads.

The camper question is still a conundrum. The way I see it is you can go cheap and get a couple seasons out of it or drop some coin on a custom build and keep the design basic and light weight.
 
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rruff

Explorer
Tire diameter is the dimension that determines the gear ratio. I'm not aware of a vehicle specific chart but the information is pretty standard. If you zero in on a specific vehicle and look at builds, you will see lift and tires and maybe gear ratios. If not, you could ask. A gear vendor would also be a good source.

We were discussing 2wd vans specifically. It's much less of an issue with 4wd because you can use low range. But if I had a 2wd vehicle, I'd want the lowest gearing possible and a locker. And good ground clearance, which means a mild lift and bigger tires.
 

simple

Adventurer
We were discussing 2wd vans specifically. It's much less of an issue with 4wd because you can use low range. But if I had a 2wd vehicle, I'd want the lowest gearing possible and a locker. And good ground clearance, which means a mild lift and bigger tires.

Yes. Two different strings unraveling in the same thread. :)
 

rruff

Explorer
Leave the truck fully stock. Nothing is more capable/durable/reliable/economical than the factory design..... EVERY change compromizes something else. IE bigger tires require a lift lower axle ratios.... which raise the center of gravity and reduces fuel economy hurting range.

In overlanding RANGE and DURABILTY are things you should never reduce.

Seriously? Of course it's possible to go crazy and complicate things unnecessarily, but my truck is much better with a tire/suspension/skidplate upgrade. Ground clearance over rocks is a huge issue in the west. Oddly big tires and a lift didn't even hurt mpg, but I guess I got lucky with the tires.
 

deserteagle56

Adventurer
I just did a quick search and it looks like they quit making the vans in 2014 and they only had a 4spd?

I thought they'd share axles with the trucks, but maybe not.

It is correct that the last year of the E-series was 2014. However, my 2007 E350 has the 5 speed TorqShift transmission in it. Great tranny with an excellent reputation. I believe all the heavy duty E series had this tranny till Ford quit making them (not sure what year they first began using them, though). https://www.transmissiondigest.com/...e TorqShift is a five,provide a ratio of 2.20.

Unless you find some rare unicorn E-series the axles are not the same as that in a Ford F250/350 series. The F series uses a full-floating axle whereas the E series gets the semi-float which is not as heavy duty. People do install the F series axles in their E series to upgrade the axle strength but it is not a simple conversion.
 

deserteagle56

Adventurer
If you want a van definitely look at the 2500/3500 series with AWD.... I love 4WD for the low range but a heavy van likely comes with a lower axle ratio than a 1500 series van and that effectively gives you better performance off pavement. In 2WD often you need momentum, in AWD 4WD you get to drive slower which helps ...

Good luck in finding one. GM built only the 1500 series with AWD to my knowledge. There are several conversion companies that do convert the 2500/3500 series to either AWD or 4wd. Lots of good info on these in the camper van forum on this site.
 

kmacafee

Adventurer
To my knowledge there is no cab-over type camper that will stand up to hundreds of miles of washboardy roads. The constant vibration will crack plastic drain lines and tanks and shake all the cabinets apart. I live in the middle of Nevada, been there, done that. Very few paved road around here. I still use my cabover but stay off the severe washboards; when I get to rough roads I park and use the Jeep. You talk about off-camber...I used to have my campers on SRW (single rear wheel) trucks...a cab-over camper is very tall. Off-camber roads with a tall cab-over is a dicey situation. After scaring myself a few times that way I went to dual rear wheel (much wider stance). Much more stable. Another thing many new cab-over camper owners forget is that many forested back roads have tree limbs that will not clear a camper that is 12-13 feet high, and the skin on that camper is not very stout.....
View attachment 761177

I also vote for the early Cummins engine versus the old 7.3. Rock solid dependable and easy to work on/service.
I'd say hogwash to the idea that there is no camper that will stand up to "washboardy" roads. They all require ongoing maintenance to insure things stay tight but I've had my Bundutec Odyssey for 4 years, 100000k miles + and almost 300 overnight stays and have traveled countless miles of washboard and tough roads and its been fine. I periodically go around and tighten everything and while things do come loose, nothing has failed catastrophically. Campers have a lot of moving parts that are constantly subject to vibration so its critical to do routine maintenance. To paraphase a great quote from the movie Nomadland - "dont leave your sailboat in your driveway". Just go.
 

rruff

Explorer
There are several conversion companies that do convert the 2500/3500 series to either AWD or 4wd.

For $20-30k though! IMO it's silly expensive... 4wd pickups are ubiquitous and no more than a 2wd van. It's seems kinda crazy to me that they didn't use the same rear axle in the vans as the pickups. Smaller clearances I guess?
 

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