I am almost ready to pull the trigger on a local 4Runner. 1999, 200k miles, absolutely no rust, 33" m/t tires, rear locker, ft and rear lift, new uca's, etc. Needs to have timing belt and water pump replaced though. The truck is in great shape otherwise, but driving on the road it was underpowered. Maybe that is typical. I'm thinking it needs different tires and a ft and rear bumper upgrade and a winch, and the engine work, then ready for exploring
What vehicles make the best Expedition platforms?
- Thread starter Sunpilot
- Start date
Yeah, bigger tires means slower rig. BUT, looks and performs much better off road. I would do your motor work right away! I had a timing belt go on my 91 prelude, made a mess of the motor. I would then just use it as is, see what really needs to be done. I always wanted a winch, full bumpers etc...but I never have needed either. Just the terrain here does not need that stuff. So....I am keeping as is.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
.
The 3.4 is known for a lot of things but power isn't one of them, even stock. Now add armor, a lift and bigger tires and you are talking about a pretty underpowered platform compared to modern vehicles.
.
Note what I said about "power" though: It's not that the 3.4 equipped 4runner is underpowered, it's that it's underpowered compared to more modern vehicles in the same size class. I think the distinction is important because by any objective standards, most modern vehicles in the US/Canada market are, in essence, overpowered in terms of what you need vs. what is "fun to drive."
.
Consider that for 60+ years, many vehicles got by with engines in the 100 - 150hp range and did just fine. They were able to accelerate onto a freeway on-ramp (the example people always like to cite as "this is why I need a 350 hp engine") and took care of most other duties including light trailer towing with very little difficulty. Even back in the 60's and 70's when V8 engines ruled, truck and SUV engines rarely broke 200hp. (I have an old reference book on 4wd vehicles and I looked up one of my old trucks - a 1968 International Travelall with the optional 345 V8. According to my reference the HP rating on that was....195. By comparison, modern 4 cyl Subaru's have just a little less than that.)
.
IMO the biggest limitation to the 3rd gen 4runner as an "expedition vehicle" is the puny gas tank and so-so MPG. You will have to figure a way to carry extra fuel if you want decent range, especially out West. I strapped 2 x 3 gallon RotoPax fuel paks onto my roof which gave me about 90 miles of additional range.
Box Rocket
Well-known member
This could be an excellent platform to work with. I agree that the fuel tank should be larger. But carry another 10gal of fuel with you and you'll have an acceptable range. Even with the stock tank you should be able to safely get 250miles of range. As for being underpowered, it's probably typical. Toyota has historically used very conservative motors in terms of power. It's part of what contributes to the excellent reliability. With the tire size you mentioned it's probably a good idea to consider changing the gearing. Swapping in some 4.88's will make a noticeable difference in driveability, towing performance and feel of overall power.
Great point martinjumpr. Case in point, the 2011 previous JK and the 2012 up JK. When the 2012 came out with the pentajesus motor, Everyone was like WOW. look at the HP, etc. and yeah, while it maybe faster, MINE is cheaper....as in paid off. I am not running out and buying a new Jeep for a few hp. The ole 3.8 has torque lower in the RPM range and that's better for what I need. I still accelerate fine with stock 3.73 gears, get decent gas milage and enjoy the crap out of my rig. It costs me maintence items and crap I want to put on it. Nothing else. I have 190,000 on it now and its been very very reliable. Just like anything....keep up on it and it will live a very long life.
MOguy
Explorer
In your original post you mentioned go anywhere. I have a 4th Gen 4Runner and a 2001 Wrangler, my wrangler is modified for off roading, my 4Runner is stock. Both are different, on road and mild to some what moderate off roading you would be fine in ether. My 4th gen is a V6 but does have allot of power and gets decent mileage, 22-24 on the highway, the wrangler 13-15. My 4Runner too big and has way to much sheet metal and glass for a go anywhere 4X4, Plus the underside is very vulnerable to trail damage. The third generation 4Runner is smaller and will fit better on trails and better suited for off-roading, but unless you regear it will suck off road if you truly want to go anywhere.
If you go to larger tires ( on any vehicle) you will loose power. More horsepower is not the answer. For off roading (other than mud) you need your power at lower rpms, gearing is the way to recover the lost power from larger tires, not adding more horsepower. You mention AZ so I assume you may do some rock crawling, having power available at low rpms is essential for this. Another issue with a independent suspension, if not done right it can cause more wear.
I know people will disagree but if you truly need a go anywhere off roader a Wrangler would be a better option than th 4Runner. Tthe better option of the Wranglers would be the Rubicon. Wrangler are easier and less expensive to modify for off roading. The Rubicon is already built for most situations. They will not be as nice on road as a 4Runner but Wranglers are not that bad. If you get the newer 4 door jeep will have more room. In the previous generation Jeeps they had they had the LJ which is a longer wheel base TJ. With the Wrangler your range will probably be less than with a 4Runner.
For me the choice comes down to how serious will the off roading be. If mild to moderate a 4Runner may be a better option. If the off roading will be more hard core the Wrangler will probably be a better option. As far as other options, there maybe more but these two vehicles are what I am familiar with for this type of activity.
I have no experience at all with the Nissan SUV other have mentioned but I would assume it would be similar in characteristics and capabilities to the 4Runner.
Last edited:
IMO in this order.
Comfort(being the road is a drag sometimes).
Range
Reliability but this moves to the #1 spot if 1. You leave the country. 2. You spend alot of time out west/very remote places.
Size(gotta sleep right?)
Off road capability
Safety
Lets be honest with ourselves in that there's always an easier path and most Overland vehicles are 50% off road toy and 50% actual overlanding. If you go 100% overland a Subaru Outback or similar will more than get the job done. We all look for trouble/difficult terrain/trails vs a destination half the time.
If I could have my way my perfect rig would be a UK spec diesel Discovery 3 mostly because my LR3 so far has ticked all those things except Range(its garbage).
Comfort(being the road is a drag sometimes).
Range
Reliability but this moves to the #1 spot if 1. You leave the country. 2. You spend alot of time out west/very remote places.
Size(gotta sleep right?)
Off road capability
Safety
Lets be honest with ourselves in that there's always an easier path and most Overland vehicles are 50% off road toy and 50% actual overlanding. If you go 100% overland a Subaru Outback or similar will more than get the job done. We all look for trouble/difficult terrain/trails vs a destination half the time.
If I could have my way my perfect rig would be a UK spec diesel Discovery 3 mostly because my LR3 so far has ticked all those things except Range(its garbage).
MOguy
Explorer
The OP plans on staying out west in the US (possibly Baja) and maybe up to Alaska. Toyota, Jeep, Chevy, Fords parts would be more available then A UK spec vehicle. he also talks about needing a go anywhere vehicle. Even if only 1% of his trip fit into the go anywhere category a Subaru won't cut it.
Last edited:
p nut
butter
Based on that, I would not consider the 3rd Gen 4Runner. Maybe I'm getting old and soft, but after having owned 2 (and 2 1st gen Tacomas), my conclusion is that these are good daily drivers and weekend toys, but long distance haulers, they are not. After about 4 hrs in the seat, I am pretty beat up. Road noise, stiff suspension, crappy seats, etc. start to wear on me quick. Add to that at 100k miles or so, I seemed to develop bump steer issues that I could not resolve (on both rigs).
_
4th Gen 4Runners and moreso 100-series LC's were leaps ahead in comfort while retaining great off-road prowess. If you're MPG-conscious, I would check out the 4th Gen V6. If you're ok with ~15mpg, 100-series is hard to beat for overall comfort and capability.
MOguy
Explorer
I have a 4th Gen and get 22 plus on the freeway but off-road I don't think it is a great choice, actual I think it is a crappy choice. The departure and esp the approach angle is terrible, clearance is terrible and feels big. It has this traction control crap you cannot turn off. You can't spin the tires in mud, you can't really it bump to get over obstacles. If the tires start to spin the computer takes over and you loose control of your throttle. Maybe there is an override. I love it for on road, dirt roads, light trails and the snow. It works fine for normal driving but it HORRID for more serious off road. Mine is the V6 and the power is great, the ride is great, economy great for an SUV.
It could be lifted and on larger tires and suitable for off roading to an extent. Maybe it is because I own a Jeep Wrangler and had a smaller P/U for off-road before the Jeep but the 4th Gen 4runner just seems fat and awkward off-road and the traction control just ruins it for me. For milder off roading fine but if you need something more maneuverable and capable I just can't see the 4th gen 4Runner as good choice.
look at the nose and butt on that thing (4th gen) even the 3rd gen has a long nose.
here is the 2nd generation 4Runner, much better
Last edited:
p nut
butter
I have a 4th Gen and get 22 plus on the freeway but off-road I don't think it is a great choice, actual I think it is a crappy choice. The departure and esp the approach angle is terrible, clearance is terrible and feels big. It has this traction control crap you cannot turn off. You can't spin the tires in mud, you can't really it bump to get over obstacles. If the tires start to spin the computer takes over and you loose control of your throttle. Maybe there is an override. I love it for on road, dirt roads, light trails and the snow. It works fine for normal driving but it HORRID for more serious off road. Mine is the V6 and the power is great, the ride is great, economy great for an SUV.
It could be lifted and on larger tires and suitable for off roading to an extent. Maybe it is because I own a Jeep Wrangler and had a smaller P/U for off-road before the Jeep but the 4th Gen 4runner just seems fat and awkward off-road and the traction control just ruins it for me. For milder off roading fine but if you need something more maneuverable and capable I just can't see the 4th gen 4Runner as good choice.
look at the nose and butt on that thing (4th gen) even the 3rd gen has a long nose.
here is the 2nd generation 4Runner, much better
Perhaps stock, they are less capable than 3rd gen's. However, there is so much aftermarket support, that all of your concerns are non-existent. That's the great thing about Toyota's: Make them as off-road capable as you need them, and fairly easily since the market support is there.
_
VSC was an issue on my old 02 4Runner as well. Simple switch took care of that, though. Similar mod is available on the 4th Gens.
_
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...trac-abs-without-damaging-factory-wiring.html
_
Fat, awkward? Maybe relatively speaking to a Wrangler, but still, people have taken them on the Rubicon. All the while traveling in much more comfort compared to the Jeep.
MOguy
Explorer
Perhaps stock, they are less capable than 3rd gen's. However, there is so much aftermarket support, that all of your concerns are non-existent. That's the great thing about Toyota's: Make them as off-road capable as you need them, and fairly easily since the market support is there.
_
VSC was an issue on my old 02 4Runner as well. Simple switch took care of that, though. Similar mod is available on the 4th Gens.
_
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...trac-abs-without-damaging-factory-wiring.html
_
Fat, awkward? Maybe relatively speaking to a Wrangler, but still, people have taken them on the Rubicon. All the while traveling in much more comfort compared to the Jeep.
Thanks for the link
With enough time and effort you can make a Pinto off road capable.
There is nothing wrong with a 4Runner. For traveling I would and I do choose my 4Runner over my Jeep all the time, unless off roading is involved. I just think that a Wrangler (or other short wheel base solid front and rear axle vehicle) is a better platform for a " but also capable of going most anywhere once off road" vehicle then a 4th Generation 4Runner.
I would trade my Wrangler in a heart beat for a well done early solid axle 4Runner. I did trade my Grand Cherokeefor a 4Runner because the Grand sucked as a tow vehicle and in general just not as good as the 4Runner. I am not a brand loyal person.
_
Last edited:
p nut
butter
C'mon. That's not even a fair comparison. Pinto would require $$$ worth of custom fab work, while most of 4Runners parts are mass produced bolt-on products. Sliders, bumpers, lift, etc. are all available in-stock today.
_
And "go anywhere" is a relative term, isn't it? For where I go, IFS and probably 32" tires is all I need for my "go anywhere" rig. Others, like you, require SFA and SWB. We've all got different needs. My original point was, for highway driving, 4th Gen 4Runners trump 3rd Gen, while being plenty capable.
MOguy
Explorer
If spending that much isn't an issue get the Rubicon version, a small lift, larger tires a winch and be done with it. With the 4:1 in the Tcase the gearing won't be an issue of road with the larger tires. There is allot of space and it is comfortable enough.