What will happen sooner... a Ford Gas vs Diesel dilema

[F350joe]

You could build a really nice 7.3 diesel or Fummins for the money of a new truck. Lots of extra fuel tank options for the older ford diesels and you get the benefits of a pre-smog diesel. Otherwise, go with the gas option, less potential for headaches.

 

[cobro92]

Fummins are cool but they come with their own issues. I’ve heard little things break a lot.


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[F350joe]

Fummins are cool but they come with their own issues. I’ve heard little things break a lot.


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True that, same could be said for an old 7.3 but new or old we require some shake down to get dialed and have confidence with.

 

[Explorerinil]

Fummins are cool but they come with their own issues. I’ve heard little things break a lot.


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Any old vehicle will nickel and dime you, but they are easier to repair. With that said, traveling in remote areas, I would have a new or newish 3/4 ton gas truck. Gas is readily available and you don’t have to worry about DEF or emissions related issues of a modern diesel.

 

[montypower]

Why buy the Tremor? It's overpriced and really offers nothing you can't get in an XL truck for way less money.

First, the Tremor only is in the crew short bed configuration. 160"WB. We had this truck configuration originally. Way too long for trails and maneuvering enjoyably.

Second, the Tremor doesn't have dual lockers. It has a clutch style limited slip front differential (worse kind). Really limited assistance. The rear locker is available in every configuration including the XL (like ours). Front D60 is easy to install a real locking differential. We installed the OX locker air actuated. Way better than the Tremor. Plus, the 4.30 factory gears can be optioned for several hundred dollars. So nothing special there.

Third, the Tremor has 35s stock. Yes, but they are on 18" wheels. That doesn't give much sidewall. We are running 37s with 17" wheels which gives much more sidewall for better ride off road. 37" spare fits.

Fourth, the Tremor has improved suspension. Yes, it better than the base suspension but no where near King or Fox. And you'll need to rework it anyways to carry a truck camper weight.

So basically, the stuff you pay extra to get with the Tremor will likely get replaced. And either way you're paying more money for less performance.

I don't know why everyone knocks the 6.2L. The 2017+ Super Duty 6.2L is far from lacking. 430ftlb. We rarely run it up to 3k rpm. It lives under 2k rpm. Plenty of power. And it has been in production for over a decade with solid track record. The 7.3L is a fantastic design and performance and I'll look at buying one after 5-10 years of track record. Love this motor build. Simplicity and durability without the complexity economy BS. Best motor to be released in the past decade for sure.

But the fuel mileage will be similar. We are rolling on 37s with 4" lift full armor with hardside camper. It averages 10-12mpg on regular 87 fuel. Add the enclosed trailer and it is 9-10mpg. Off road it still gets about 10mpg. We typically go 500+ miles on full tanks regardless of terrain. Capability for cost... you can't beat building an XL truck. We are all in at $60k with way more than you can get stock (check the build thread - pg1).

Diesel won't give you much better mpg. I've read countless camper setups with diesel. Most popup truck campers with oversize tires are 12-13mpg. Most diesels with hardwall camper are 10-13mpg (too many factors to list). So at best, you might gain 2-3 mpg. In reality, you're probably talking the same or 1-2mpg. So carry some extra fuel. The diesel weighs like 800lbs more! Just think... you could carry 800lbs additional gasoline to equal the diesel weight! That's an additional ~ 125 gallons.

 

[FordGuy1]

Why buy the Tremor? It's overpriced and really offers nothing you can't get in an XL truck for way less money.

First, the Tremor only is in the crew short bed configuration. 160"WB. We had this truck configuration originally. Way too long for trails and maneuvering enjoyably.

Second, the Tremor doesn't have dual lockers. It has a clutch style limited slip front differential (worse kind). Really limited assistance. The rear locker is available in every configuration including the XL (like ours). Front D60 is easy to install a real locking differential. We installed the OX locker air actuated. Way better than the Tremor. Plus, the 4.30 factory gears can be optioned for several hundred dollars. So nothing special there.

Third, the Tremor has 35s stock. Yes, but they are on 18" wheels. That doesn't give much sidewall. We are running 37s with 17" wheels which gives much more sidewall for better ride off road. 37" spare fits.

Fourth, the Tremor has improved suspension. Yes, it better than the base suspension but no where near King or Fox. And you'll need to rework it anyways to carry a truck camper weight.

So basically, the stuff you pay extra to get with the Tremor will likely get replaced. And either way you're paying more money for less performance.

I don't know why everyone knocks the 6.2L. The 2017+ Super Duty 6.2L is far from lacking. 430ftlb. We rarely run it up to 3k rpm. It lives under 2k rpm. Plenty of power. And it has been in production for over a decade with solid track record. The 7.3L is a fantastic design and performance and I'll look at buying one after 5-10 years of track record. Love this motor build. Simplicity and durability without the complexity economy BS. Best motor to be released in the past decade for sure.

But the fuel mileage will be similar. We are rolling on 37s with 4" lift full armor with hardside camper. It averages 10-12mpg on regular 87 fuel. Add the enclosed trailer and it is 9-10mpg. Off road it still gets about 10mpg. We typically go 500+ miles on full tanks regardless of terrain. Capability for cost... you can't beat building an XL truck. We are all in at $60k with way more than you can get stock (check the build thread - pg1).

Diesel won't give you much better mpg. I've read countless camper setups with diesel. Most popup truck campers with oversize tires are 12-13mpg. Most diesels with hardwall camper are 10-13mpg (too many factors to list). So at best, you might gain 2-3 mpg. In reality, you're probably talking the same or 1-2mpg. So carry some extra fuel. The diesel weighs like 800lbs more! Just think... you could carry 800lbs additional gasoline to equal the diesel weight! That's an additional ~ 125 gallons.

I think if you drove a Tremor off-road you would be very surprised on how well they actually work. The dual rate springs, and rear leafs work very well compared with a standard F-250, and the limited slip front paired with the electronic traction control is pretty dam amazing. If you want a large truck that is very capable from the factory, and don't want to screw with a ton of mods like custom rear leafs etc.. Its the way to go. Don't knock one until you actually drive one off road.

 

[ScottPC]

Why buy the Tremor? It's overpriced and really offers nothing you can't get in an XL truck for way less money.

First, the Tremor only is in the crew short bed configuration. 160"WB. We had this truck configuration originally. Way too long for trails and maneuvering enjoyably.

Second, the Tremor doesn't have dual lockers. It has a clutch style limited slip front differential (worse kind). Really limited assistance. The rear locker is available in every configuration including the XL (like ours). Front D60 is easy to install a real locking differential. We installed the OX locker air actuated. Way better than the Tremor. Plus, the 4.30 factory gears can be optioned for several hundred dollars. So nothing special there.

Third, the Tremor has 35s stock. Yes, but they are on 18" wheels. That doesn't give much sidewall. We are running 37s with 17" wheels which gives much more sidewall for better ride off road. 37" spare fits.

Fourth, the Tremor has improved suspension. Yes, it better than the base suspension but no where near King or Fox. And you'll need to rework it anyways to carry a truck camper weight.

So basically, the stuff you pay extra to get with the Tremor will likely get replaced. And either way you're paying more money for less performance.

I don't know why everyone knocks the 6.2L. The 2017+ Super Duty 6.2L is far from lacking. 430ftlb. We rarely run it up to 3k rpm. It lives under 2k rpm. Plenty of power. And it has been in production for over a decade with solid track record. The 7.3L is a fantastic design and performance and I'll look at buying one after 5-10 years of track record. Love this motor build. Simplicity and durability without the complexity economy BS. Best motor to be released in the past decade for sure.

But the fuel mileage will be similar. We are rolling on 37s with 4" lift full armor with hardside camper. It averages 10-12mpg on regular 87 fuel. Add the enclosed trailer and it is 9-10mpg. Off road it still gets about 10mpg. We typically go 500+ miles on full tanks regardless of terrain. Capability for cost... you can't beat building an XL truck. We are all in at $60k with way more than you can get stock (check the build thread - pg1).

Diesel won't give you much better mpg. I've read countless camper setups with diesel. Most popup truck campers with oversize tires are 12-13mpg. Most diesels with hardwall camper are 10-13mpg (too many factors to list). So at best, you might gain 2-3 mpg. In reality, you're probably talking the same or 1-2mpg. So carry some extra fuel. The diesel weighs like 800lbs more! Just think... you could carry 800lbs additional gasoline to equal the diesel weight! That's an additional ~ 125 gallons.

All valid points and I don't disagree with any of them, in fact I've marveled at your build. I don't have the skills to do that on my own! My rationale...the shortest I could go is a supercab short bed, which buys me 11inches in wheel base only about a 7 % change. This would be much more significant if going from a 2 door jeep to a four door. Since the Tremor package runs around 4K, more than a non tremor, I don't think I could do the mods for much less, though there are still some mods I would want to do like the 17 inch wheels. Hopefully, selling a new Tremor wheel set could offset that or I have a dedicated set for winter travel (common in my area.) My thinking is that with the Tremor package, I can get pretty close to a stock vehicle that would allow me time to upgrade as I felt things were necessary, keeping the warranty intact. I do like the idea of the Tremor's trail control and rock crawling drive modes, realizing none of these things are truly necessary, but in some situations can be terrific. This modes aren't avialable in non-tremors. As far as the engine, it looks like the 7.3 has a pretty flat torque curve of 400 ft-lbs starting at 1500rpms while peaking at 475 near 4000rpms, the 6.2 is about 25% less than that even though it peaks at 430. This is not a big deal, but I live in the mountains and drive mountain passes on every trip so having a little extra power is nice. The 7.3 is paired with the newer 10spd transmission which I think will be useful in a lot of situations both on and off road. As you suggest, the big question is the reliability with the 7.3 and 10 speed transmission? At least, they are into the 2nd year of production. I'm not aware of any major concerns so far and having some piece of mind warranty wise will help with that. Anyway you raise some valid points and if I can find a really good local shop to help with some of the upgrades, going with the super cab would be ideal. Thanks for your input and this is an of example of why I decided to make this post.

 

[FordGuy1]

All valid points and I don't disagree with any of them, in fact I've marveled at your build. I don't have the skills to do that on my own! My rationale...the shortest I could go is a supercab short bed, which buys me 11inches in wheel base only about a 7 % change. This would be much more significant if going from a 2 door jeep to a four door. Since the Tremor package runs around 4K, more than a non tremor, I don't think I could do the mods for much less, though there are still some mods I would want to do like the 17 inch wheels. Hopefully, selling a new Tremor wheel set could offset that or I have a dedicated set for winter travel (common in my area.) My thinking is that with the Tremor package, I can get pretty close to a stock vehicle that would allow me time to upgrade as I felt things were necessary, keeping the warranty intact. I do like the idea of the Tremor's trail control and rock crawling drive modes, realizing none of these things are truly necessary, but in some situations can be terrific. This modes aren't avialable in non-tremors. As far as the engine, it looks like the 7.3 has a pretty flat torque curve of 400 ft-lbs starting at 1500rpms while peaking at 475 near 4000rpms, the 6.2 is about 25% less than that even though it peaks at 430. This is not a big deal, but I live in the mountains and drive mountain passes on every trip so having a little extra power is nice. The 7.3 is paired with the newer 10spd transmission which I think will be useful in a lot of situations both on and off road. As you suggest, the big question is the reliability with the 7.3 and 10 speed transmission? At least, they are into the 2nd year of production. I'm not aware of any major concerns so far and having some piece of mind warranty wise will help with that. Anyway you raise some valid points and if I can find a really good local shop to help with some of the upgrades, going with the super cab would be ideal. Thanks for your input and this is an of example of why I decided to make this post.

The trans is a no brainer, zero issues. We now have quite a few 7.3l engines with 50k plus on them. At the two Ford stores I run, we have not made any repairs other than oil changes at this point.

 

[ScottPC]

The trans is a no brainer, zero issues. We now have quite a few 7.3l engines with 50k plus on them. At the two Ford stores I run, we have not made any repairs other than oil changes at this point.

That's great to know. Of course it will take millions of miles among thousands of vehicles to know for sure but it's a great start nonetheless.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

Why buy the Tremor? It's overpriced and really offers nothing you can't get in an XL truck for way less money.

First, the Tremor only is in the crew short bed configuration. 160"WB. We had this truck configuration originally. Way too long for trails and maneuvering enjoyably.

Second, the Tremor doesn't have dual lockers. It has a clutch style limited slip front differential (worse kind). Really limited assistance. The rear locker is available in every configuration including the XL (like ours). Front D60 is easy to install a real locking differential. We installed the OX locker air actuated. Way better than the Tremor. Plus, the 4.30 factory gears can be optioned for several hundred dollars. So nothing special there.

Third, the Tremor has 35s stock. Yes, but they are on 18" wheels. That doesn't give much sidewall. We are running 37s with 17" wheels which gives much more sidewall for better ride off road. 37" spare fits.

Fourth, the Tremor has improved suspension. Yes, it better than the base suspension but no where near King or Fox. And you'll need to rework it anyways to carry a truck camper weight.

So basically, the stuff you pay extra to get with the Tremor will likely get replaced. And either way you're paying more money for less performance.

I don't know why everyone knocks the 6.2L. The 2017+ Super Duty 6.2L is far from lacking. 430ftlb. We rarely run it up to 3k rpm. It lives under 2k rpm. Plenty of power. And it has been in production for over a decade with solid track record. The 7.3L is a fantastic design and performance and I'll look at buying one after 5-10 years of track record. Love this motor build. Simplicity and durability without the complexity economy BS. Best motor to be released in the past decade for sure.

But the fuel mileage will be similar. We are rolling on 37s with 4" lift full armor with hardside camper. It averages 10-12mpg on regular 87 fuel. Add the enclosed trailer and it is 9-10mpg. Off road it still gets about 10mpg. We typically go 500+ miles on full tanks regardless of terrain. Capability for cost... you can't beat building an XL truck. We are all in at $60k with way more than you can get stock (check the build thread - pg1).

Diesel won't give you much better mpg. I've read countless camper setups with diesel. Most popup truck campers with oversize tires are 12-13mpg. Most diesels with hardwall camper are 10-13mpg (too many factors to list). So at best, you might gain 2-3 mpg. In reality, you're probably talking the same or 1-2mpg. So carry some extra fuel. The diesel weighs like 800lbs more! Just think... you could carry 800lbs additional gasoline to equal the diesel weight! That's an additional ~ 125 gallons.

I went with the FX4 for similar reasons that you posted but I also agree with Fordguy that it's a reasonably priced option for someone who wants mild off road improvements from the factory.
I got the 7.3 because it's specifically designed for longevity, ease of maintenance and simplicity so im willing to roll the dice on a relatively new design. With computer modeling and modern testing, I believe the wisdom of waiting a few years is becoming less important. But I'm sure the 6.2 is very capable.

Also, I'm probably in the minority on this forum but I would rather tune my tires and suspension to on road performance while being capable of driving moderately rough dirt roads as 99% of my driving will be on the street.

 

[Explorerinil]

I think if you drove a Tremor off-road you would be very surprised on how well they actually work. The dual rate springs, and rear leafs work very well compared with a standard F-250, and the limited slip front paired with the electronic traction control is pretty dam amazing. If you want a large truck that is very capable from the factory, and don't want to screw with a ton of mods like custom rear leafs etc.. Its the way to go. Don't knock one until you actually drive one off road.

Don’t forgot off-road modes, trail crawl control, etc. if your leaving a truck stock, the tremor is a better option.

 

[montypower]

Seriously? Off road modes? This is a massive gimmick. It's just using traction control to modulate the brakes. I'll take a real locking diff or even a TrueTrac (gear style limited slip) any day. Traction control has massive limitations. But maybe it's worth the extra money for some.

I can appreciate getting more off road goodies from the factory. While the suspension is probably better on the Tremor... there are plenty of people ripping it out for Carli (so that has to tell you something). Realistically, the suspension will need to be reworked on any truck for camper duty if off road performance is important.

I'm glad Ford is offering the package. I just don't see the value. Now... if they offered 37s, real front locker and more lift/clearance with shorter wheelbase option... that would be interesting. To me, it is mostly for flash and less function.

Also... it makes no sense to make the wheelbase difference a percentage. Go drive both wheelbases. Try parking them. Try driving around or over any obstacle. There is a reason the Power Wagon is 150" and not 160". We tried the 160" WB. And sold the truck with 3k miles on it.

 

[phsycle]

RE: Tremor. I think it’s a pretty nice “turn key” package, personally. If I got a F250, I’d for sure get the Supercrew, shortbed. And I’m guessing that’s a pretty popular configuration as that’s what they offer the tremor package in.
Wheels and tires, which I typically switch out anyway, are $2k. Lift, $1k. Front LSD (which for what I do, that is plenty), “Raptor steps”, diff vents (which are cheap and easy but still), etc. I would probably get this package. For the places I go, it’d be more than enough.

Having said that, I haven’t ridden in one and maybe I may change my tune once I get it on dirt. There are miles and miles of open, high speed, washboard roads out here and I’d love suspension package that would accommodate.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

The 7.3 has a flat torque curve because it's choked down by the ECM to meet emissions. Add a tune and it becomes a TQ monster.

Scroll down and they have dyno sheets for various tunes.

GOT A 2020 7.3L SUPER DUTY? - 5 Star Tuning

We offer 4 styles of tuning for the 2020-2022 F250- F350 7.3L V8. A quick highlight summary below of each style:

5startuning.com

 

[cobro92]

The 7.3 has a flat torque curve because it's choked down by the ECM to meet emissions. Add a tune and it becomes a TQ monster.

Scroll down and they have dyno sheets for various tunes.

GOT A 2020 7.3L SUPER DUTY? - 5 Star Tuning

We offer 4 styles of tuning for the 2020-2022 F250- F350 7.3L V8. A quick highlight summary below of each style:

5startuning.com

Yes I think the 7.3 will actually be a pretty popular crate engine for this reason. It’s really tuneable and can pretty easily be cranked up to 700hp with little modification.


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