What will happen sooner... a Ford Gas vs Diesel dilema

[Deleted member 9101]

I wouldn’t call it a lack of control. It’s really just operating outside of the computer parameters.....which is sometimes beneficial or necessary.


Uphill in snow with a grade steep enough that stopping on the hill is not safe or practical. For us, that is most driveways of cabins we service near the ski area. But we also see plenty stuck on the road heading up to the ski area. Tires with less traction will have a traction control system that is far more intrusive, causing issues even earlier.

I have no problems in the mountains of NM or NH. My truck has always maintained traction.

 

[phsycle]

Thankfully no on the AEB. The parking sensors in my wife’s Titan will beep for tall grass or branches. My friends truck with AEB gets confused in the same fashion. It’s jarring when it brings the truck to a dead stop because it thought it was a car or a person. I would assume it can be shut off, but I don’t know. I just know that’s not a feature I want. It’s bad enough to forget to turn off traction control. In the right situation, it’s downright dangerous.

I had a Tacoma with the lane departure garbage. Hated the constant beeps. Glad it was easy to turn off.

The only vehicle where traction control was dangerous was in my old 4Runner. TRAC was so stinking sensitive. Pulling out onto the Main Street, it would cut power at times. Traffics barreling towards me, my foot to the floor, and the thing is craaaawwwwllling. I’ve been cliff jumping and skydiving, but never puckered harder than in that death trap.

 

[montypower]

L M A O. The driving modes go well beyond "just using traction control to modulate the brakes." Anyone who has actually driven one knows that ;-)

FYI... All 2020+ Super Duty trucks have "drive modes". Even our XL. Snow, Sand, Eco, Tow, etc... Only difference is it disables the traction control in low range. That's where the Tremor has the advantage. But having driven many rigs with excellent traction control off road... they have serious limitations. Reality is most won't need any of it so does it matter?

There are ideal wheelbases for hill climbs, rock crawling and overall maneuverability. Shorter isn't always better. But getting over 150" WB is tough to deal with. Give it a try!

 

[ScottPC]

I wouldn’t call it a lack of control. It’s really just operating outside of the computer parameters.....which is sometimes beneficial or necessary.


Uphill in snow with a grade steep enough that stopping on the hill is not safe or practical. For us, that is most driveways of cabins we service near the ski area. But we also see plenty stuck on the road heading up to the ski area. Tires with less traction will have a traction control system that is far more intrusive, causing issues even earlier.

Agreed. I've lived near Park City for about 20 years with much of that time doing daily commuting to SLC, about 2000-2500 ft lower in which you can experience every weather situation in 25 minutes. There are times when momentum is important and other times when when slow, steady with no torque is the answer to having positive control. Sometimes turning off traction control in an already slow condition can actually help. Knowing which conditions require which technique just requires time in the seat and working with the capabilities / limitations of the vehicle. That's why I think Drive Modes are very intriguing but not a substitute for thinking. For instance, if "rock crawl" can help me and others consistently get through a tricky sections without tearing up the track that's good thing.

All that said, the one controllable I won't skimp on are the right tires for the condition. Given my location, I'm a believer in the mtn snow flake rating on my AT tires, and dedicated snow tires during the winter months as they grip great on just cold hard pavement and not just snowy or icy conditions.

 

[JaSAn]

I'll bite.... Please name one?

Glare ice

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Glare ice

Hoe often do you encounter it?

 

[plumber mike]

Hoe often do you encounter it?

I think once is enough to sour the outlook on the entire system....especially when what we had before wasn’t “broken” to begin with.
I don’t have any issues pulling into the grocery store parking lot. But ONE issue out of cell range is enough for a stubborn SOB such as myself to want to eliminate it as a possible point of failure. I want to be the only unknown variable in the equation.

As ScottPC mentions, the best possible tires, at the optimum pressure is the best thing to reduce the possibility of an issue.

Conversely, I did have the computer save my butt on a Ram Diesel we had. Just putting it in D would have enough torque to the wheels to break traction at idle. Stock tires in that incident. The computer did what it did and that big tank crawled through mud at a rate so slow, I wouldn’t believe it possible.

 

[JaSAn]

Hoe often do you encounter it?

This winter: twice so far.

 

[Trixxx]

I'd go with the 7.3. Even if the 7.3 gets 1/2 of the mpg as the 6.7 the initial cost of the 6.7 and the obnoxious oil change cost make the 7.3 cheaper per mile to operate. Add in one out of warrenty repair on the 6.7 and the 7.3 is looks even better.

Also...the 6.7 isn't all that fuel efficient. 1050 ftlbs of tq requires lots of fuel.

care to back this up with some evidence?

I own a 2020 F250 Tremor with the 6.7 and my 10k and 20k mile service at the Ford dealer (incl oil changes) were about $120/ea. I hardly consider that obnoxious.

The fuel mileage is HUGELY better than the 7.3 as I’m on 2 separate tremor groups plus a tremor forum.

with 37” tires I can easily get 17 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. Around 19-20 with the stock 35’s. The 7.3’s are getting around 14 mpg at those speeds.

if you slow it down to 55 you’re looking at 24-25mpg on flat terrain. Could easily crest 21-22 with my 37’s at a low enough speed (Texas has crazy fast speed limit

s&b makes a 60 gallon stock replacement fuel tank as well (not available for the gas)

towing my 4500ish lb travel trailer I can get around 13-14mpg at 70-75 (with the 37’s)

I’d argue the 2020 super duties with the 10spd transmission are some of the most fuel efficient full size diesels made. Though some dodge owner might argue they get 35mpg towing an 8k load.

 

[Explorerinil]

care to back this up with some evidence?

I own a 2020 F250 Tremor with the 6.7 and my 10k and 20k mile service at the Ford dealer (incl oil changes) were about $120/ea. I hardly consider that obnoxious.

The fuel mileage is HUGELY better than the 7.3 as I’m on 2 separate tremor groups plus a tremor forum.

with 37” tires I can easily get 17 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. Around 19-20 with the stock 35’s. The 7.3’s are getting around 14 mpg at those speeds.

if you slow it down to 55 you’re looking at 24-25mpg on flat terrain. Could easily crest 21-22 with my 37’s at a low enough speed (Texas has crazy fast speed limit

s&b makes a 60 gallon stock replacement fuel tank as well (not available for the gas)

towing my 4500ish lb travel trailer I can get around 13-14mpg at 70-75 (with the 37’s)

I’d argue the 2020 super duties with the 10spd transmission are some of the most fuel efficient full size diesels made. Though some dodge owner might argue they get 35mpg towing an 8k load.

For a big v8 diesel and a truck with horrible arrodymics that’s not bad. But yes, a ram cummins will get better fuel economy, that’s proven , but not by much.

 

[ScottPC]

with 37” tires I can easily get 17 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. Around 19-20 with the stock 35’s. The 7.3’s are getting around 14 mpg at those speeds.

Trixx, I don't mean to be that guy.... but ..... did you have get a different lift on your Tremor to run 37s or do they just fit with stock Tremor lift?

I personally love the power you get from the diesels and their range especially because aux tanks and after market high capacity replacement tanks are possible. I have a Duramax for towing a horse trailer and love it. I'm just inclined to go with the 7.3 for this flatbed camper build as I won't be towing with it. I am also hoping to use it for international travel where 87 octane will be more prevalent and ULSD may not be available at all. I have found the Def and Fuel Filter and emissions sensors to be a PITA when we have taken it for longer trips, so I'm thinking the 7.3 should be more than capable but just hoping to find ways to extend its range.

 

[Trixxx]

For a big v8 diesel and a truck with horrible arrodymics that’s not bad. But yes, a ram cummins will get better fuel economy, that’s proven , but not by much.

Haven’t seen the comparisons of the 2020 with the new 10 speed transmission vs a 2020 Cummins.

Eagerly awaiting you to provide this proof.

 

[Trixxx]

Trixx, I don't mean to be that guy.... but ..... did you have get a different lift on your Tremor to run 37s or do they just fit with stock Tremor lift?

I personally love the power you get from the diesels and their range especially because aux tanks and after market high capacity replacement tanks are possible. I have a Duramax for towing a horse trailer and love it. I'm just inclined to go with the 7.3 for this flatbed camper build as I won't be towing with it. I am also hoping to use it for international travel where 87 octane will be more prevalent and ULSD may not be available at all. I have found the Def and Fuel Filter and emissions sensors to be a PITA when we have taken it for longer trips, so I'm thinking the 7.3 should be more than capable but just hoping to find ways to extend its range.

Depends what you do for wheels and tires. If you do 18” wheels with a +18 offset they’ll likely just barely rub the radius arms at full lock. If you do 17” wheels at +0 offset (what I have) on stock suspension, they’ll take a little trimming of the front inner fender. It’s easily driveable as it sits now, but I have a Carli Backcountry leveling kit coming which will eliminate any rubbing. Many people drive with way way worse running like this permanently, but I’m not OK with it. For a couple months that’s fine, but I don’t want a vehicle that rubs, period. FYI - these are all 37x12.5’s.

If where you’re going you’ve researched that ULSD isn’t available at all (mind you, with a 60 gal S&B tank you could safely have 800-1000 lies of range) then you need to go the 7.3, period. I would not get the diesel expecting the areas to eventually change.

Lots of 7.3 owners are very happy with their trucks. Mind you, they just came out in the 2020 models, the 6.7 has been out since 2011, and revised around 3-4 times since then.

In your case, I don’t see the 6.7 even being an option without the availability of fuel where you want to go. I do see a lot of comments in this thread that are somehow stating the 7.3 is comparable or better in anything other than cost, which I don’t agree with in most all cases. Yes, the 7.3 can do a lot of the same as the 6.7, but not nearly as effortlessly. The hauling, towing, daily driving, fuel range, fuel mileage, etc. are all leaps and bounds better on the 6.7.

The 6.7 is more complex, but my last 6.7 was bulletproof. In 75k miles I think I only had 1 exhaust sensor fixed, other than that, not a single problem. I had a hot shot guy with a F350 6.7 tow my 42’ 5th wheel for 1000 miles and his truck had 350k-400k miles with very minimal issues.

 

[Porkchopexpress]

I do see a lot of comments in this thread that are somehow stating the 7.3 is comparable or better in anything other than cost, which I don’t agree with in most all cases.

I don't recall reading any posts making that claim? This is an expedition forum where most "overland builds" are well below max towing capacity of any Super Duty engine so the bias towards gasoline is somewhat predictable. If this was a 5th wheel RVing forum, the opposite would be true.
I also think that if there was no price difference, most members would prefer the diesel. It's easier to convince yourself that one engine is better than another if it saves you $8K.

 

[Explorerinil]

Haven’t seen the comparisons of the 2020 with the new 10 speed transmission vs a 2020 Cummins.

Eagerly awaiting you to provide this proof.

I’m to busy, CJC has a video on YouTube, you can look it up.