What will happen sooner... a Ford Gas vs Diesel dilema

[Deleted member 9101]

care to back this up with some evidence?

I own a 2020 F250 Tremor with the 6.7 and my 10k and 20k mile service at the Ford dealer (incl oil changes) were about $120/ea. I hardly consider that obnoxious.

The fuel mileage is HUGELY better than the 7.3 as I’m on 2 separate tremor groups plus a tremor forum.

with 37” tires I can easily get 17 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. Around 19-20 with the stock 35’s. The 7.3’s are getting around 14 mpg at those speeds.

if you slow it down to 55 you’re looking at 24-25mpg on flat terrain. Could easily crest 21-22 with my 37’s at a low enough speed (Texas has crazy fast speed limit

s&b makes a 60 gallon stock replacement fuel tank as well (not available for the gas)

towing my 4500ish lb travel trailer I can get around 13-14mpg at 70-75 (with the 37’s)

I’d argue the 2020 super duties with the 10spd transmission are some of the most fuel efficient full size diesels made. Though some dodge owner might argue they get 35mpg towing an 8k load.

$120.00 oil change... Thats definitely obnoxious....lol. Also, does that include doing the fuel filters?

Call whom ever does your oil changes and ask them the price to do a 7.3. I'm willing to bet that its at least half, since it holds ~50% less oil and it has no serviceable fuel filter or DEF.

Also...are you seriously considering 5-6 mpg to be "HUGELY?" At 6 mpg more the 6.7 would take over 400k miles just to balance increased purchase price. That doesn't include the cost of oil changes or insurance, which push the balance point even further.

 

[Trixxx]

$120.00 oil change... Thats definitely obnoxious....lol. Also, does that include doing the fuel filters?

Call whom ever does your oil changes and ask them the price to do a 7.3. I'm willing to bet that its at least half, since it holds ~50% less oil and it has no serviceable fuel filter or DEF.

Also...are you seriously considering 5-6 mpg to be "HUGELY?" At 6 mpg more the 6.7 would take over 400k miles just to balance increased purchase price. That doesn't include the cost of oil changes or insurance, which push the balance point even further.

Maybe not huge when you’re considering 34 vs 41 mpg. 13 vs 19 on a truck is a pretty big deal.

the gas station next to my house has gas for around $2.10 and diesel for $2.30.

just considering fuel costs, my math is 250k miles to break even.

250k/13=19,230 gallons x$2.10 =$40,384 in gas
250k/18.5=13,513 gallons x$2,30 =$31,081

difference is $9302, and the diesel is an $8500 option.

diesel maintenance is more, but the diesel resale after 250,000 miles will probably still be $6k-$8k more.

regarding DEF, it’s about $15 every 5000-6000 miles. I do agree other services (oil change and fuel filters) cost more at their 10k and 30k mile intervals.

 

[FordGuy1]

$120.00 oil change... Thats definitely obnoxious....lol. Also, does that include doing the fuel filters?

Call whom ever does your oil changes and ask them the price to do a 7.3. I'm willing to bet that its at least half, since it holds ~50% less oil and it has no serviceable fuel filter or DEF.

Also...are you seriously considering 5-6 mpg to be "HUGELY?" At 6 mpg more the 6.7 would take over 400k miles just to balance increased purchase price. That doesn't include the cost of oil changes or insurance, which push the balance point even further.

How is $120.00 Obnoxious? 15 qts of Semi-Syn oil, and a filter. Do you want a tech to charge $5.00 in labor to rack a 7k truck?

 

[ScottPC]

Recap:

While operational costs are always an important consideration, I'm more focused on long range and hopefully international capability. While if North America and Baja were the only intended destinations, the 6.7 would be a clear contender as larger tanks can be added for much better range. The emissions stuff are a headache for sure so the 6.7 isn't a slam dunk.

The 7.3 is a promising powerful gas engine with a simpler design and paired with the same 10spd transmission as the 6.7. It's in the 2nd year of production and while reliability can't be known it does appear promising. It's lighter than the 6.7 so frees up payload. The major downside is range due its poor fuel economy (relative to the 6.7 and the 6.2 gas), and because it's gas, high capacity replacement tanks aren't made for it, though there is a remote possibility that Transfer Flow could make one as they did for the F150 (see the link in the first post and submit a product suggestion so they'll see the demand.)

On a off original topic note, there is a good question as to whether a crew cab short bed in the Tremor package is a viable overland / backcountry touring vehicle or if a super cab platform is superior and worth the aftermarket build effort (running boards, suspension/shocks, lifts, 37s, front locker, breathers). Note, in both cases, changing to 17 in wheels and upgrading the front bumper with 16.5 winch would happen). The super cab configuration has an ~148 wheel base where the Tremor has a 160 inch wheel base. Thus it's overall length is ~1 ft shorter, it's curb to curb turning circle is 49 feet, 5 feet tighter than the Tremor's 54 ft, and it will have a better brake over angle, (number is not available as is subject to final tire size and lift). Ignoring the costs differences for now, how much more capable is the super cab than crew cab off road? Do these numbers make that much of a difference in an overlanding application of FULL SIZE TRUCKs... after all, these numbers are relatively less significant than the jump from a 2dr to a 4dr jeep?

 

[phsycle]

Do you need a crew cab?

 

[ScottPC]

Do you need a crew cab?

Well, the Tremor only comes in a Crew Cab so that's why I'm considering the crew. While I would use the space of the crew cab (dog and gear), the super cab would be fine. It's really how much better a built super cab will be for overlanding / Off road touring than a mostly stock Tremor?

 

[cobro92]

Well, the Tremor only comes in a Crew Cab so that's why I'm considering the crew. While I would use the space of the crew cab (dog and gear), the super cab would be fine. It's really how much better a built super cab will be for overlanding / Off road touring than a mostly stock Tremor?

Of course a built truck with aftermarket parts is going to be better off road than a Tremor. But that’s not the value of the Tremor. The tremor is still going to be able to take you a lot of places that a stock XLT can’t and it’ll have a factory warranty. Plus you can finance it with a pretty cheap loan these days. You really can’t finance aftermarket parts. If you don’t mind keeping it stock for a while or forever, I think the Tremor is a good option.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phsycle]

Well, the Tremor only comes in a Crew Cab so that's why I'm considering the crew. While I would use the space of the crew cab (dog and gear), the super cab would be fine. It's really how much better a built super cab will be for overlanding / Off road touring than a mostly stock Tremor?

For you and a dog, I’d personally go Supercab. Cheaper and you can build it up how you want. XL, 7.3, 4.30, Supercab. Nice suspension and tires. Done. Cheaper than a Tremor and will ride better.

I told my wife when we are empty nesters, I’m getting a super or single cab with a FWC and we’re going to travel the country. No need for a crew cab.

 

[ScottPC]

Of course a built truck with aftermarket parts is going to be better off road than a Tremor. But that’s not the value of the Tremor. The tremor is still going to be able to take you a lot of places that a stock XLT can’t and it’ll have a factory warranty. Plus you can finance it with a pretty cheap loan these days. You really can’t finance aftermarket parts. If you don’t mind keeping it stock for a while or forever, I think the Tremor is a good option.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll be toting a flatbed popup camper. Reliability and serviceability are important which is why I started down the Tremor path for warranty and good stock capability. The better question becomes how often will a Tremor be denied passage down a track that a moderately built super cab would make it because of it's shorter wheelbase? Of course that depends on the track itself. While, I do want to temporarily ignore costs during this part of the analysis, the cost of a built super cab, same trim package, will end up costing more and take longer. While I know it would be better will it realistically allow me to go places easier and more confidently due its 12 inch shorter wheelbase? Because if wheelbase isn't that big of a deal in already very large trucks, in time upgrades can still be made to a Tremor.

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

The Ram 2500/3500 crew cab short bed wheelbase is 149", essentially the same as the Ford Supercab 148" wheelbase, but you get real doors that open independently and a B pillar. The Supercab doors can squeak offroad because there's no rigid pillar where the doors meet: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/late-model-ford-supercabs-do-the-doors-creak.219957/

 

[cobro92]

The Ram 2500/3500 crew cab short bed wheelbase is 149", essentially the same as the Ford Supercab 148" wheelbase, but you get real doors that open independently and a B pillar. The Supercab doors can squeak offroad because there's no rigid pillar where the doors meet: https://expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/late-model-ford-supercabs-do-the-doors-creak.219957/

Yes but you’d be losing out on that game changing 5 inches of bed space! /s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[phsycle]

Yes but you’d be losing out on that game changing 5 inches of bed space! /s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn’t the bed size the same between the two?

 

[GeorgeHayduke]

Isn’t the bed size the same between the two?

Ram bed is 6' 4", Ford is 6' 9". It can make a difference when fitting a slide-in camper.

 

[phsycle]

Ram bed is 6' 4", Ford is 6' 9". It can make a difference when fitting a slide-in camper.

You are right. I thought they were both around 77-78”.

 

[ScottPC]

Ram bed is 6' 4", Ford is 6' 9". It can make a difference when fitting a slide-in camper.

Bed size doesn't mean too much in my case as I'll replace it with flatbed: The Ram is interesting, but I understand the Hemi requires 91 octane gas. I'm wanting to take this internationally eventually and am thinking that 87 octane might be better choice in that regard.