what's a definition of a real land rover ?

[windsock]

Then the only "REAL" Land Rovers are Series' and Defenders

Just the pedant in me but don't forget the one ten... I have a one ten flat deck truck and it never ceases to amaze me the number of folk who think it is a defender. It is not. It is however a key stage of the evolution of the vehicles we like, that has it's own name... 110.

I have early memories of my granddads old series one. He'd owned it since new and it was still going strong on the farm into the sixties. This was when farmers had the old series ones and used all the accessories given to work the land they lived off. They were tractors on the farm in the morning and shopping baskets in town in the afternoon. Cream delivery vehicles the next morning and then bought in the hay bales that afternoon. They broke in the field and that is where they got fixed to drive another job. They were work horses for the vast majority and overlanders for the small minority. This is a valued legacy that continues for many albeit with different proportions of work and play.

I live with an early (1984) one ten flat deck truck. It is my daily driver for good reason. I am able to go gather a heap of firewood out of the river bed in the morning and then go to town in it to pick up building materials in the afternoon. I can comfortably be in first low with a locked centre crawling a load of wood out of the river/bush or leaving the bush camp and then in fifth high cruising home with a load of wood or a head full of good memories. I can be driving to an isolated stretch of river to fly fish one moment and driving to work in town the next. A change of clothes in the truck is easier than driving home to change vehicles

If I had to use one word to sum up my LR it would be "versatile", i.e. capable of doing many things competently and having varied uses or serving many functions. That for me is the real part of what I have, the ability to have it all while only having to maintain the one

 

[ipgregory]

The 'Ninety', 'One Ten', D90, D110, D127/130, 101, Stage 1, FC, Airportable, etc. are all considered as variants of the Series' or pre-evolutions of the Defender type vehicles of today for the purposes of my classification.

My point is that the line of vehicles stretching from the original in 1948 to the Pumas of today are the 'Real' Land Rovers. You can still buy one (just not in the US) and use it as it was designed, to help run your business, scratch your exploratory itch or whatever else you can find to put it to.

Starting with the Range Rover in 1970 the line split and the Disco 1/2/3/4 , Freelander 1/2, RR Sport, Evoque, etc. are all a direct result of that split. They are descendents of the RR, not 'The' Land Rover. The 'Real' Land Rovers continued with the Series vehicles of the time and their eventual replacements.

I love your examples of your use of your vehicle, they are spot on! THAT is what a 'Real' Land Rover is/was, not today's urban assault vehicles.

Nothing against the RR's, Disco's, etc. they are superb vehicles but they are not 'Real' Land Rovers. They just happen(d) to be made by Land Rover the company in the same way that Jeep makes the Grand Cherokee or GM makes the H3. Nobody would consider the GC to be a 'Real' Jeep or the H3 to be a 'Real' Hummer. Both are marketed using the image created by the original and do well because of it in the same way that the Evoque today benefits from the image of its cousin's exploits over the years.

 

[tacr2man]

I can only fault the logic above with one contention , that is the RRC was a real landrover , it was a true multiuse vehicle , even to having been built with plastic seats and rubber mats so that it could be washed out , it was first used by farmers etc as a more powerful and upmarket 4x4 by the fram (estate) owner while his workers drove a landrover . It was very usable as expedition vehicle (Darien crossing) etc .It was only later versions that moved away from this intended usage , and in doing so started a whole new vehicle category . The real landrover category is pretty well non existant now even in the landrover stable JMHO

 

[ipgregory]

Yes the earlier, pre-mid 80s RR is a difficult one to exclude but I do it partially with hindsight and partially because I think even Land Rover did. They never put LR badges on the earlier RRs. They always wanted the vehicle to be a little (even they never envisioned quite how much) more upscale than the more utilitarian series vehicles of the time. To do that they separated it by giving it almost a new brand of its own. They didn't want it to be a real Land Rover, they wanted it to be a Range Rover. As you mention, this was the vehicle for the land owner or manager, not the guy that had to go dig sheep out of a snow drift and cart them back to the barn. Yes it could do it and many other things admirably and in quite a few cases it did but it wasn't intended to be for that primarily.

Its early adoption as the 1st Chelsea Tractor and later the Kensington Assault Vehicle started its climb and as it rose it created a vacuum behind it that led to the the Disco and then as the Disco rose to follow the RR it created the need (?) for the Freelander and a whole line of replacements and eventual new models such as the sport and the Evoque followed.

Meanwhile the Series was replaced by the One Ten and then the Ninety that became the Defenders of today. Yes the Basic LR has some adoption by the Urban crowd but it's still primarily a work vehicle. It was never intended to be a commuter vehicle or shopping trolley in the same way that the disco say was. Yes the vehicle today is quite different from the original back in 48 but it's still put to the same basic use. Farmers still want it, Utility companies still want it, some armed forces still want it for some roles, some explorers still use it, aid groups/journalists/etc. still call on it, rescue services still need it and so on. There are other options today and many are better in some places or roles but the Defender line is still there and still being used for what it was intended when it was 1st released. It's still 'the' 'real' Land Rover.

You mention the Darien expedition, good example. The RRs where having problems because they where overloaded but when the team wanted something to help at the time their answer was to buy a local beat up series and use it to break trail. And it did, quietly and without issue. That's not a dig at the RR but to show that typically when there is a bunch of hype and fuss going on, you can often find a series or a Defender type vehicle in the background out of the spotlight doing its job quietly and effectively. The Camel Trophy is another example. Whatever the competition vehicles may have been RRs, Discos even Freelanders (!), the support vehicles where always 'Real' Land Rovers....

 

[overlander]

I will say that I'm thankful for the original RR as it gave me my beloved coil springs!

 

[MattScott]

Actually if you want to get technical, since Land Rover decided to separate the brands into Land Rover and Range Rover, technically anything 2011 or earlier is a Land Rover. Any Range Rover 2012 and onward isn't a Land Rover anymore. :Wow1:

Unfortunately that never actually happened - It almost did, then it didn't.

 

[Green96D1]

a real land rover is the rover that is driven by the owner.

i feel my discovery is a "Real" land rover. because it has everything that a "real" land rover does. live axles, Fwd, a real frame, and is easy to manitain.

but to some of us real land rovers has leafs and diesels
to some of us a real land rovers has coils and V8's
and to some of us a real land rover has airbags and 400 hp engine.

but basically a land rover is as real as the owner makes it.

thats my 25 cents :ylsmoke:

 

[maxingout]

If you can take it apart by drilling out the rivets and using a few spanners, you got a real Land Rover.

If you can put it back together with a good supply of rivets and a few spanners, you got a real Land Rover.

And if you can do a complete chassis switch in a single weekend, you have a Land Rover for sure.

 

[tacr2man]

"Yes the earlier, pre-mid 80s RR is a difficult one to exclude but I do it partially with hindsight and partially because I think even Land Rover did. They never put LR badges on the earlier RRs. They always wanted the vehicle to be a little (even they never envisioned quite how much) more upscale than the more utilitarian series vehicles of the time. To do that they separated it by giving it almost a new brand of its own. They didn't want it to be a real Land Rover, they wanted it to be a Range Rover."

The first Range Rovers had "by Land Rover" badges on still being put on in 72 when i bought mine

 

[ipgregory]

84 was my earliest and it didn't have an LR badge on it anywhere. Maybe they dropped them once they started to go upmarket a bit?

That 84 was pretty typical of what your talking about. It was an ex Saudi original Vogue 4 dr but it came off a farm in Derbyshire somewhere. Got it via a liquidation sale. The rear seat was essentialy gone down to the metal frame. It looked like it had been 'eaten'. Guessing he kept his dogs in there or something? Underside was just 1 big solid lump of mud. The mud and I guess the lack of much road use had protected it surprisingly. It was solid as a rock. Never did get the smell of sheep **** out of it though. Stripped it to a bare chassis and rebuilt with a new (to it) interior but even after that if you left it closed up for a few days, when you opened it again, it stank.

 

[Ncrover725]

It has to smell of 90wt

 

[rover4x4]

A metal dash and leaf springs

 

[ArmyRover]

Both of my 1991 RRC's had land rover badges front and rear. Just saying.

 

[ipgregory]

Yeah, I was looking back through some old pics and my 93 had green ovals on the grill and the lower tailgate. Forgot all about them. So I stand corrected. 84 didn't have any though.

Still doesn't make them 'real' Land Rovers... :elkgrin:

 

[Jim K in PA]

Exposed rivets in the bodywork. :ylsmoke:

This comment is coming from a Jeep guy that lurks in the LR section here from time:time, and would love a Series 109 with an LS V8 . . . and a real frame.

Therefore this comment has no merit. Move along . . . LOL :elkgrin: