Which axle upgrade route to take

[revor]

I am going to make a few phone calls to get some more information.

Ohhh it's a long dark road...

Mecedes Diesel, NP435, I'd do an LT230 but that's just me. Toy Chunks in RRC housings with D110 Brakes.
110 suspension and frame.
http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17338

If only I had more time.. A 110/109 Dormie with a Merc in it..

I love it..

 

[4Rescue]

-Toy axles:

- 80 series with E-Lockers if you've got the coin,

- 8" mini-truck if you don't (add Longfields - in the front - and chromo axle shafts and you're set for life)

...with a Toyota Gear driven T-Case and a Toyota R151F tranny... The R series tranny is smoother than any of those old "truck tranny's" mentioned and every bit as strong.

That'll be the last drive-train you'll ever need in a Rover.


Cheers

Dave

 

[Alaska Mike]

I would have mentioned the Toyota drivetrain if he hadn't already mentioned a family aversion to Toyotas. Might be able to sneak by a 3rd member or two, but the whole shootin' match? That would take some slight of hand.

There might be some length issues with a Toyota drivetrain, although their axles are pretty darn sweet. I was thinking that a 4.3L V-6 coupled to a SM465 and Rover transfercase would be killer. Add some circa 1985 Toyota minitruck axles and you're set. An automatic would be nice for the wife.

Oh, it's so nice to dream when it's somebody else's Rover... and money.

 

[4Rescue]

I would have mentioned the Toyota drivetrain if he hadn't already mentioned a family aversion to Toyotas.

Oh... So maybe he doesn't WANT to cure the problem ????

Seriously, Toyota partas are the answer to the breakage with one fell swoop. There are clearly ALOT of options, but it's alot of mish-mashing and in the end, just swaping in the Toy bits get's you a stronger drive train with only one parts catalogue to flip through.

There are some great minds here on this board, and whatever you decide, as you've seen, you'll get alot of help and ideas here. Good luck mate, keep us posted on the final decision

Cheers

Dave

 

[TeriAnn]

Chevy 292 with TBI mated to Ford NP435 and High ratio transfer case. It'll be fun altohugh a 350 would be cheaper. Scout PS with home built column and spam can pump. Currently going with 3.54 diffs in Rover axles but expect to move to Jim's 4.10 hybrids. All in a 109 sw.

I've got a spare 6 cyl box sitting in Phoenix if you need it.

A high ratio transfercase plus 3.54:1 R&P??????

Have you run the numbers?

Hi range is 0.87:1,That would give you 3.08:1 at the axle in high range fourth. And you don't want to see what it will do to your low range ratios. Run the numbers across the range of ratios.

RHD Scout II power steering boxes may be made on unobtainium. It would be a good time to look for alternatives such as the RHD P28 steering box.

 

[Linus Tremaine]

i have to admit

Series land rovers can be a real serious bummer.


My first rover was the most dependable. I never had to do much of anything to it. It had a full roof rack, a custom camper built in, a winch, two heaters, exterior lights and a slough of other useful modifications. I thought I could do better, so I sold it. I got the park ranger. A rusted hulk that needed everything. I had to do brakes, springs, engine, clutch, tires- then right when it was almost starting to be a pretty good truck.... Both Nikkie and I couldnt fit in it. So, the dormobile came along. It blew its head gasket, now its transmission is dead.

I have spent the last three or four years with land rovers that are broken 80% of the time. I have missed several trips that I really wanted to attend because of pain in the butt breakages. Now, I will probably miss more.

Not a day goes by (well maybe a few) that the idea of a modern vehicle with a pop up camper or RTT on it doesnt cross my mind. I would probably get a four door taco. The electric fridge would go in the back seat area, the RTT would go on a rack in the back. It would be dependable and I could use it every weekend.

Then, something in my brain reminds me that I wouldnt really want to be driving it. I would feel like I was driving a rental and I would dream about how much more rugged I would feel if I had been driving a series land rover instead. How much more of a challenge the trip would be. I feel like its a greater accomplishment, a more novel experience, a more historical and time tested challenge that I share with great explorers of the past. All of this just from sitting behind a different steering wheel. Be it right or left hand drive, a series land rover brings something to a vehicle expedition that will always be lacking from a trip in something else. Of course, people have fun in other cars, but I dont just want to have fun. I want to have my series along to look at and say, "yeah, I drove that thing here. Pretty neat eh?"

Maybe its that I enjoy winning the very hard battle with entropy, or maybe its just that I have somehow overcome the seemingly insurmountable odds of getting a series truck to actually go anywhere. I just am not ready to give up on them.

anyway,
I am glad you are keeping your land rover. There arent enough people who use their dormobiles. Teriann keeps trying to spear head the effort of convincing people to drive dormobiles off road, so I sort of feel like a johnny come lately jumping on her band wagon, but shes right. I also must admit that the only thing that makes a series trip better is when there are more than just one of them. When I dream at night, its that someday all of us can go on a trip together. None of our trucks will break and if we are lucky, we might never have to come home.


Oh yeah- stock front axle, salsbury in the back is my vote. Dont get a detroit locker- bleh.

 

[Alaska Mike]

I think Linus pretty much summed up what I was thinking. Dormobiles are so uber-cool that I often contemplate all of the fun I could have with one. They combine the best of an austere vehicle with all of the comforts that make sustainable travel possible. The fact that you use yours as it was intended just ramps up the cool factor. I admit it- I'm envious.

Make your list of priorities and go from there.

 

[Yorker]

A high ratio transfercase plus 3.54:1 R&P??????

Have you run the numbers?

Hi range is 0.87:1,That would give you 3.08:1 at the axle in high range fourth. And you don't want to see what it will do to your low range ratios. Run the numbers across the range of ratios.

RHD Scout II power steering boxes may be made on unobtainium. It would be a good time to look for alternatives such as the RHD P28 steering box.

3.54, 3.34 and 3.07 are pretty common 1960's Chevrolet truck ratios. Gregor will have the granny 1st gear because he doesn't have a close ratio NP435 so that will help make up for low range gearing. The 292 is more like a diesel and produces peak torque pretty low, if you expect to get anything like decent MPG from a 292 you need to go with pretty tall gearing.


292 L6

Gross Horsepower
170 @ 4000 rpm

Net Horsepower
153 @ 3600 rpm

Gross Torque lbs. ft
275 @ 1700 rpm

Net Torque lbs. ft.
255 @ 2000 rpm


4.10's would probably be better but 3.54s are cheap enough to try out- people sell those coiler diffs for next to nothing. If Gregor later decides to do the Toyota swap odds are they'll be 4.10's anyway so he won't pay for re-gearing. 'Till then he might not get out of 3rd gear much around town but hey why not give it a go?


RHD Power Steering:

 

[TeriAnn]

3.54, 3.34 and 3.07 are pretty common 1960's Chevrolet truck ratios. Gregor will have the granny 1st gear because he doesn't have a close ratio NP435 so that will help make up for low range gearing. The 292 is more like a diesel and produces peak torque pretty low, if you expect to get anything like decent MPG from a 292 you need to go with pretty tall gearing.

4.10's would probably be better but 3.54s are cheap enough to try out- people sell those coiler diffs for next to nothing. If Gregor later decides to do the Toyota swap odds are they'll be 4.10's anyway so he won't pay for re-gearing. 'Till then he might not get out of 3rd gear much around town but hey why not give it a go?

It is the combination of a transfercase high ratio kit AND 3.54 R&P that has me wondering. I have no problems with one or the other. Its just the combination that has me puzzled.

Question? What diameter tyres are you intending to use?

Question 2, which front springs are you using? From your pictures, you appear to be playing a couple interesting games. If you would like to start a new thread, I'd like to learn more about your vehicle project.

I've seen that mounting of a steering box before, allowing a LHD steering box to be used with RHD. I've tended not to emphasize it because a lot of people put radiators behind the front cross member and many radiators mounted on top of a cross member have a bottom opening on the right side. An engine that has an exhaust manifold/header on the right side can face interference issues because the steering shaft runs much closer to the engine when it goes to a box mounted inside the frame rail. A steering box mounted inside the frame rail can complicate things for many engine/radiator configurations. It's a possible can of worms that works great for a limited number of engine & cooling configurations and presents major complications to many others.

A RHD power steering box is a clean solution that works for just about everyone. Which is why I push it is a solution.

 

[Yorker]

It is the combination of a transfercase high ratio kit AND 3.54 R&P that has me wondering. I have no problems with one or the other. Its just the combination that has me puzzled.

Question? What diameter tyres are you intending to use?

Question 2, which front springs are you using? From your pictures, you appear to be playing a couple interesting games. If you would like to start a new thread, I'd like to learn more about your vehicle project.

I've seen that mounting of a steering box before, allowing a LHD steering box to be used with RHD.

That is my friend Rick Lamb's Lightweight build, he has it set up for RHD- the front springs are de-arched rear 88" springs, he is planning to run 34"-36" tires. There was plenty of room to clear the Ford Cougar radiator which he positioned behind the crossmember, I think he moved the front cross member forward when he extended the spring front spring hangers But I'd have to ask him to be sure.

The rest is EFI 302-NP453- Series T Case w/b suffix gears.

Front diff pegged Rover 24 spline axle with GBR 4.75 gears & ARB AEU2522 CV's and Cooper's Disk Brake conversion, and locally made high steer arms.

Rear-Salisbury with GBR/Maxidrive stuff and a Detroit IIRC, and disc brakes- de-arched 109 SW springs.

He has a build thread up on another board, maybe I'll help him replicate it here. It seems pretty unusual from a Series LR standpoint but most of what he has done is pretty run of the mill in the FJ-40 and Jeep crowd.

 

[TeriAnn]

Series land rovers can be a real serious bummer.

<<SNIP>>

So, the dormobile came along. It blew its head gasket, now its transmission is dead.

And I limped home on a generator and battery charger because a new battery & new alternator & several hours of troubleshooting couldn't make my charging system work. And a bonnet on the roof rack because my new exhaust headers put on just before the trip created enough heat to cause frequent vapor lock at high inland temperatures.

With 40+ year old cars that get used on the trail excrement happens.

I have spent the last three or four years with land rovers that are broken 80% of the time. I have missed several trips that I really wanted to attend because of pain in the butt breakages. Now, I will probably miss more.

Bummer that. We are all three sitting at home with cabin fever.

Not a day goes by (well maybe a few) that the idea of a modern vehicle with a pop up camper or RTT on it doesnt cross my mind. I would probably get a four door taco. The electric fridge would go in the back seat area, the RTT would go on a rack in the back. It would be dependable and I could use it every weekend.

Then, something in my brain reminds me that I wouldnt really want to be driving it. I would feel like I was driving a rental and I would dream about how much more rugged I would feel if I had been driving a series land rover instead. How much more of a challenge the trip would be. I feel like its a greater accomplishment, a more novel experience, a more historical and time tested challenge that I share with great explorers of the past. All of this just from sitting behind a different steering wheel. Be it right or left hand drive, a series land rover brings something to a vehicle expedition that will always be lacking from a trip in something else. Of course, people have fun in other cars, but I dont just want to have fun. I want to have my series along to look at and say, "yeah, I drove that thing here. Pretty neat eh?"

Maybe its that I enjoy winning the very hard battle with entropy, or maybe its just that I have somehow overcome the seemingly insurmountable odds of getting a series truck to actually go anywhere. I just am not ready to give up on them.

That's why I love the quote from a review of the 1964 Series Land Rover by Car and Driver magazine:

"A Land Rover is less of a car than a state of mind."​

anyway,
I am glad you are keeping your land rover. There arent enough people who use their dormobiles. Teriann keeps trying to spear head the effort of convincing people to drive dormobiles off road, so I sort of feel like a johnny come lately jumping on her band wagon, but shes right. I also must admit that the only thing that makes a series trip better is when there are more than just one of them. When I dream at night, its that someday all of us can go on a trip together. None of our trucks will break and if we are lucky, we might never have to come home.

Until next time, there are dreams of last time ...

Oh sweet memories
​

 

[revor]

Seriously, Toyota partas are the answer to the breakage with one fell swoop.
Cheers

Dave

What he said.....

 

[ntsqd]

From looking at the Rocky Mtn disc brake conversion it would appear to use stock, later model parts? If so, why is it $1100? Are those OE parts big dollars? An 11" rotor in a 16" wheel is giving away up to 2" of rotor diameter. That is huge in building brake torque.

Building a one-off conversion can open a can of worms, but there are several common (in the US) OE caliper options that have simple to fabricate mounts. If later model LR/RR parts bolt-on it comes down to picking the caliper of choice and designing a mount. That is something that I used to do for wilwood, so it's not a big deal to me.

 

[greenmeanie]

A high ratio transfercase plus 3.54:1 R&P??????

Have you run the numbers?

Hi range is 0.87:1,That would give you 3.08:1 at the axle in high range fourth. And you don't want to see what it will do to your low range ratios. Run the numbers across the range of ratios.

RHD Scout II power steering boxes may be made on unobtainium. It would be a good time to look for alternatives such as the RHD P28 steering box.

I ran the numbers:

* = RM overdrive on 3rd & 4th gears.

The beauty of a 292 6 pot is that it is a truck engine with a long stroke which makes it a torque monster at low rpm. Rpm max out at about 5500 but torque comes in really low and lots of it. The oft quoted line is that a 292 will out pull a 350 off the line.

Stock Chevy rear ends for this engine are 3.08 or 3.73. I am starting with the cheap option of 3.54s and if that is too low I'll go to Jim's 4.10s which will raise the final ratio in 4th to 3.54. Talking with the experts on this engine, with the mods I'm putting in I'll be pushing 200+hp (Older rodders system) and 250 lbs + torque but I'll want to be sitting down around 2200-2400rpm cruising on the freeway.

She should churn along just fine.

 

[Alaska Mike]

The Timm Cooper conversion that Rovers North sells for $2199 http://roversnorth.com/store/p-14936-disc-brake-coversion-kit-front-ser-iia-iii-vented.aspx is pretty complete. Almost half the cost is all of the Defender brake parts. The real expense is the swivel housing, which is a new casting. The nice thing about the conversion is that it can work with either 15" or 16" wheels.

Personally, if I wanted disc brakes all that much, I would look at Dana/Spicer or Toyota axles. The cost of the conversion would be about half of what a disc brake conversion would cost (especially when you factor in the dual power conversion required), and you would end up with stronger components and more gear ratio options.