Which rear diff locker or limited slip best for snow and twisty paved mountain roads?

[jeep-N-montero]

I didn't read anything but original post, anyway a locker for traction in snow on twisty mountain roads. Are you nuts? Seriously a locker is the last thing you need. Spend some money on snow tires studded preferred. That's all you need, get a set of chains if it makes you feel better to have them but the snows are all you need.

Then maybe you should read before you respond....

 

[Mountainhound]

Kiss my ***. I read his post thats what I responded to. And I don't care what anyone says I would spend the time and money to run a true snow studded preferred in mountain passes in the winter. But hey his business what he does. I just find it funny that a summer fun tire everyone and their brother will spend small fortune putting nice tires on that look cool. But wont spend money on a tire that 1 will allow safer driving and stopping (no locker is going to do that) 2 will allow faster travel. The time spent changing them is worth the hassle or just run them through winter anyway. I spent a lot of years thinking I had great traction with my 4 wheel drive until I tried a true snow 11 seasons ago. I wont drive in the winter anymore without them. Not that I cant. Just wont. No other tire I have ever put on a truck or car showed me what the right tire can do.

Then maybe you should read before you respond....

 

[calicamper]

We just sold our family cabin on Eagle point. Grandma was one of the stock holders of the Ski resort special front row parking the whole gig. Wifes family. I made a few trips up there one winter trip. Big Bear is like a really really small and run down Tahoe. Ha ha. Snow isn't too bad they can get an epic load every few yrs but most of the time its just OK. Getting around you only need 4x4 on all seasons or chains on the 2whdrive. The Subaru was great though.

Grandma bought the Cabin in the late 50's it was a log building cement floor. Tore it down in the early 80's and built a small nice two bedroom with loft and open seating / kitchen area. Nice place. If we buy another cabin it will probably be in Tahoe or out of state.

 

[ExplorerTom]

But wont spend money on a tire that 1 will allow safer driving and stopping (no locker is going to do that) 2 will allow faster travel.

This person lives in CA. Southern CA to be more exact. You know when you're freezing your butt off and shoveling snow in NH, they have a little thing called The Rose Bowl Parade. Perhaps you've seen it on TV. You are really suggesting that this person gets studded snows for driving on some mountain roads that MIGHT be snow covered from time to time? I live in this place that is known for snow and mountains and I spend a fair amount of time in them year round. Rarely are the roads covered in snow for long and traffic will prohibit you from doing your best Colin McRae impression anyway when they are covered in snow. On the side roads that are covered in snow: slow down, you'll be fine. It might take you some additional time but the $1200 saved on studded snows and extra wheels will easily be worth it.

While I agree that winter tires (studded or not) are better than all-terrain or all-season in the snow, buying a set of studded snows in this case is pretty ridiculous.

And not a single person suggested he get a locker.

 

[Rockhounder]

Which shop in Big Bear are you using? :sombrero:

Mike over at Advanced Auto, right on the south runway fence. And he has a great "Can fix anything" attitude!

 

[Rockhounder]

Kiss my ***. I read his post thats what I responded to. And I don't care what anyone says I would spend the time and money to run a true snow studded preferred in mountain passes in the winter. But hey his business what he does. I just find it funny that a summer fun tire everyone and their brother will spend small fortune putting nice tires on that look cool. But wont spend money on a tire that 1 will allow safer driving and stopping (no locker is going to do that) 2 will allow faster travel. The time spent changing them is worth the hassle or just run them through winter anyway. I spent a lot of years thinking I had great traction with my 4 wheel drive until I tried a true snow 11 seasons ago. I wont drive in the winter anymore without them. Not that I cant. Just wont. No other tire I have ever put on a truck or car showed me what the right tire can do.

You need to understand that driving in Big Bear, which is a tiny mountain community at 7000 feet altitude, you are constantly driving off the mountain to go into Los Angeles. To run studded tires only where allowed, and only when the roads actually had snow or ice on them, I would have to change them, 5 times a week, and half the changes would be while pulled over on the side of the road, halfway down the mountain... so I would have to keep two full sets of tires on me at all times.... That would look pretty silly, hanging 4 spares (studded tires/ regular tires) off the sides and rear of the suburban, like some kind of paranoid trophy truck running the bent nail 1000 race. If I were caught driving studded tires off the hill, on a semi daily basis, where only the first 20% of the drive down is occasionally covered in snow, like perhaps 20 days out of the year, I would probably face a huge ticket, not to mention the first half hour, running at 75mph freeway conditions on the local Los Angeles interstate fwy would completely destroy studded tires, probably throwing sparks like the fourth of july, and flinging studs off the tires like little missiles. It is a 30 minute drive from the heart of big bear to lower elevations where you never see snow. Even on snow events, 90% of the roads in big bear only have the snow last on the road surfaces perhaps a couple of days at most, then it is back to clear paved asphalt surfaces. I have yet to see ANYBODY, including the local Emergency vehicles and Sheriffs run studded tires, ever. They just put on chains for the occasional snowstorms.

 

[underdrive]

Kiss my ***. I read his post thats what I responded to. And I don't care what anyone says I would spend the time and money to run a true snow studded preferred in mountain passes in the winter. But hey his business what he does. I just find it funny that a summer fun tire everyone and their brother will spend small fortune putting nice tires on that look cool. But wont spend money on a tire that 1 will allow safer driving and stopping (no locker is going to do that) 2 will allow faster travel. The time spent changing them is worth the hassle or just run them through winter anyway. I spent a lot of years thinking I had great traction with my 4 wheel drive until I tried a true snow 11 seasons ago. I wont drive in the winter anymore without them. Not that I cant. Just wont. No other tire I have ever put on a truck or car showed me what the right tire can do.

Calm down! The person who started the thread obviously used the word "locker" as a generic term, not necessarily implying he's planning on a full-blown Detroit Locker. The True-Trac he was recommended is not a true locker in that it never actually locks the two wheels together. And it actually does great on winter roads - better than some of the more aggressive factory limited-slip differentials even.

Regarding your suggestion for dedicated studded winter tires - if you have lots of ice for long periods of time that's good, but if you don't then you're just wasting your money as the solid pavement just wears the studs down to nothing. He's much better off with a set of good A/T tires (with the snowflake symbol on them) and a set of good tire chains. When the snow gets deep enough no amount of winter tire will pull your thru anyways, but chains can make all the difference. And so if he's gonna be carrying chains anyways, why waste any money on tires that are not only ill-suited for his needs but also destroy the pavement as well, and can land him a hefty fine on top of that?!

Also even the best snow tire is still severely crippled on an axle with no traction device inside it - putting power down to both wheels beats the one-leg spinout all day every day, so during winter a "locker" with nice snowflaked A/T tires is at least as good of a setup as an open differential with dedicated snows. However during the time of year when snow tires cannot or should not be used a traction device will still continue to provide its service regardless of what the road conditions are. In that sense a "locker" would actually be a better investment than a full set of dedicated winter tires and wheels - it costs about the same, however at the very least you can run it year-round and anywhere and everywhere.

 

[kojackJKU]

the only thing I would caution is applying throttle in very slippery conditions, the *** will step out on you but as long as you know this, you will be fine and just let off the throttle. Easy.

 

[Martinjmpr]

the only thing I would caution is applying throttle in very slippery conditions, the *** will step out on you but as long as you know this, you will be fine and just let off the throttle. Easy.

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You know, I've actually had this happen to me TWICE while driving LSD vehicles and that's why I'm reluctant to go with an LSD of any kind.
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First time was Christmas Eve, 1998, I was driving to my dad's house in suburban Fort Collins, CO. My vehicle was a 1990 Montero 4 door with a manual transmission and the factory LSD. We had gotten some snow and the streets were snowpacked. As I went to make the left turn onto the cul-de-sac where my dad lived, the truck spun around to the left and gently glided until I hit a parked truck (that belonged to a Fort Collins cop!) Minor damage to his truck's rear quarter panel, more serious damage to the left front of my Montero. I had no idea what had happened, I was just making the turn and next thing I knew I was spinning, standing on the brakes to no avail. The good news was that my speed was probably below 5mph by the time I hit.
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Second time was some time in the Winter of 2001 or 2002. I was in a 2wd Ford Ranger that I had put an Auburn LSD into. Driving on Grand Avenue in Laramie, WY (the main East/West drag that runs in front of the University.) Street was covered with well-packed snow and I was driving straight ahead and again, with absolutely no warning I was spinning to the left, across traffic and did a complete 180. This time I stayed off the brake and I was fortunate that even though this was in the middle of the day, the traffic was light enough that I didn't hit anyone or anything. I was able to continue on my way but it definitely shook me up.
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I didn't even think about the connection between those two events until years later when I researched LSDs and discovered their propensity for "kicking out" on low-traction surfaces like packed snow. Since that time I've never had a similar incident and the only type of locker or LSD I've had has been the factory E-locker in my '99 4runner, which I never used in snow and ice.

 

[ExplorerTom]

^similar: my Explorer has stepped out suddenly like that a couple times. Several of those times was me screwing around, but once was unexpected: I thought it was going to roll when it caught traction and I was sliding sideways. Both times were in RWD only. In 4hi, even while screwing around, it won't suddenly step out.

 

[underdrive]

Yes that's why I said I think the True-Trac is a bit more snow-friendly than the factory-type LSDs - a reasonably "tight" LSD on a reasonably slippery surface behaves quite a bit like a full-blown locker it there's not enough weight on the axle to force the LSD to slip internally. I have noticed, however, that the side-stepping behavior greatly depends on what the vehicle in question is - for example both Martin's a Tom's above were fairly light vehicles with fairly short wheelbase. On the other hand our diesels are so nose-heavy they just don't care what the rear LSD is doing - if the rear wheels lose traction all that usually happens is the truck just stops moving forward, even the short dually has very little tendency to side-step and will only attempt to do so while cornering - at which point all the driver needs to do is let off the throttle and not touch the brakes and the thing will pretty much straighten and stop itself.

Now driving around with a strong LSD in the front axle of a vehicle that doesn't have (literally) over a ton of weight right on top of the front wheels can be quite interesting when the hubs are locked in but the t-case isn't actually in 4x4 and thus the front axle doesn't receive power...

 

[eggman918]

I have true-tracks front and rear in my rig and am very happy with their manners on the rig in my sig. But it weighs 8K in daily driver trim.
The front when in 4x4 behaves "differently" but not bad you need to pay more attention to the skinny peddle but it goes where you point it,
I love the way the rear acts does just what you expect it would. I've owned this truck for 25 years started open/open then fact Dana LSD rear
then the true-tracks......this works for me.
My two cents.

 

[Lucky j]

Ok, winter road competition here.

I know, some people here lives in Colorado, northern cali, new-hampshire, northern indiana, etc.

I live in Quebec, canada. The north shore on the st-laurence river. I'm on tje road for work (paramedic) and on the hills for fun (skier and patroler). So when it snow, I have to be on the road. Snow storm, even better. Have to go skiing, unless DOT close the road, but for work, we go anyway. In the skiing are, we get an average of 22 feet of snow a year.

So now, about tire and lockers. I do believe in snow tire (the ones with the snow flakes and mountain logo), but see no use in studed, unless for you, a snow tire is just a regular ms tire (the all season type). Counpond as improved so much over the years, that they are just super efficient on any type of snow or ice, even in -30 F or C.

With a AWD or 4wd, they are just fun do drive. I drove with a an open diff, with Factory LSD and with detroit locker. Even ad a true track up front. Had little scare with any type on diff. The LSD and the open diff, but not with the locker. Reason, I was just plane stupid. The scare I got alsays happend on black ice. And I was just driving to fast and was on 2wd. No mather what, even on 4wd or AWD, I would have been going to fast.

Even once stop at an accodent scene on a slushy high way to a turn over suv. The lady was driving in 4 wheel drive with winter tire, on ......cruise control. Just plain stupid!

If your sty'e of driving is just pedal to the metal, nothing will keep you on the road in winter. If you always try to be ahead of your game, then a good set of winter tire (that does not inclued stud in IMO) and a Truetrack is just a blast to drive. Even better, one in the front too. I did that before going to 9" with locker in the back and d44 ARB in the front, and that was the best set-up for winter driving I ever had.

But I'm just a guy from the north.

Oh, forgot to mentioned, lived in Northern Indiana (Michiana) for about 2 years (2 winter) and Northen New-hampshire for one, and the worst road condition I have seen where in Indiana. Ice on highway for weeks, and cross wind like crazy. Regular AT tire at the time. (But remained on the road).

 

[Mighty Dodge Ram]

Thanks for the tip on the shop, Rockhounder. We have an old cabin in Green Valley Lake we're rehabbing at the moment. You're correctomundo about road conditions...constantly changing throughout the day as snow/ice fall, melt, and then refreeze. Good luck on your selection. Although I have an Auburn LSD, if I ever do it over I'd go with the Tru-Trac. :sombrero:

 

[Rockhounder]

Thanks for the tip on the shop, Rockhounder. We have an old cabin in Green Valley Lake we're rehabbing at the moment. You're correctomundo about road conditions...constantly changing throughout the day as snow/ice fall, melt, and then refreeze. Good luck on your selection. Although I have an Auburn LSD, if I ever do it over I'd go with the Tru-Trac. :sombrero:

Let me know the next time you are in the area! We are over on the east side of Big Bear City, We'll take you out for a Starbucks or other you wish! We are also building a cabin on property we bought on the south side of the Airport area. We are going with the surplus Forest Service logs (getting them for practically free) and using 14" diameter logs to build a retro lodge/cabin on a combined lot that abuts the open forest land. We are going to get the rock from Rim of the world hwy, in an area that the forest service is allowing people to dig rock out from. If you need any help with your rehab, that is what we do for fun!

I also do custom cabins for people, make them like they are 100 years old (no nails, all Japanese Joinery style), here are pics of one we did at Flathead Lake Montana a couple years ago. We literally cut down local wood(lodgepole pine, and Siberian Elm for the interior built-ins), milled/planked it on site, and made the rock portions from rock we literally dug out of the hillside ourselves and 100% hand split and finished. The pic of the Japanese Tansu front I hand hammered out the ironwork as well. Did a whole lot of hand carving inside on furniture as well.