Who tows with a diesel Colorado ?

[Clutch]

That would be ideal. I remember towing a 12' enclosed trailer last year, up one of the canyons. It wasn't a windy day, but I could definitely feel some tail wag when I passed a semi or if there were some cross winds. I think that StarCraft is 10' high, which is like driving with a sail on the back. Tall vans, like the Sprinter, has some sort of cross-wind mitigating system, as they're about that height as well. Probably for a good reason. Personally, for a retiree, travel the US vehicle, I'd feel more comfortable in a 1/2 ton.

Yeah, my retirement vehicle will probably be different from my commuter/weekend warrior vehicle. Thinking it is going have to be bigger...then again you read about the guys who went huge and now a scaling back to a midsize.

Do like scrolling through this site seeing all the different setups: http://www.americanrvcompany.net/blog.asp


Our E350 box van was horrible in the wind but that was before the days of cross-wind migration....the C70 dump towing the JD 350, and the Mack Tri-Axle with the JD 555...was impervious...of course those things weren't exactly light either.

It has been windy as all get out here lately, my little Tacoma is getting push around while empty...

Still super curious how the GM does.

 

[TwinStick]

A friend of mine has a neighbor that tows a small camper with his diesel Colorado and they love it. I have no idea the weight of it but it supposedly handles, brakes, and maintains speed very well.

As far as the full size gas vs diesel, I honestly wouldn't have thought the gas Dodge or gas Chevy twinstick mentioned would have had any trouble towing that trailer. I blame the gearing on trying to meet EPA mileage as opposed to real world usability. For myself, I like driving a one ton diesel and not having to worry about an 1800lb trailer or 10k lb trailer. I don't have to worry about overheating or stability in controlling the load.

Thats exactly what me & my F-I-Law thought too. Mine never overheated because of the extra big coolers I put on but on something like the "IKE GAUNTLET", his would overheat every time. It was a brand new truck as well. Sad. They are now geared for mpg it seems.

 

[RoyJ]

I was trying to not get into this but I guess I have to:

I see it every year when we go camping, every year. People pulling a camper that don't even weigh 5000 lbs with a CTD, DuraMax, Ford diesel w/900 ft lbs. I know WHY they do it, I just think it is BS that they HAVE to. Reason: The gas engine trucks are simply not geared for HD work. Not in the axles & not in the transmission gears. Which is part of the reason I ordered a Power Wagon with the manual transmission.

That might be a bit of a stretch.

Modern 6 spds from Ford and GM use 4+:1 1st gear ratios, coupled with a 4.10 rear end, you have 16:1+ 1st gear ratio. But, then you have to factor in the torque converter, which can generate another 1.5:1 ratio.

Not quite G56/NV5600 ratio, but with a manual you don't have a converter, and the engagement point is at a lower rpm (say 1200), where the engine makes less torque.

Let's compare a GM 6.0 L96 with 6L90 to a fictional G56 / 4.56 truck with the same L96 engine. This engine makes 250 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm, 300 lb-ft @ 2000 (stall of converter):

G56: 250 lb-ft x 6.29 x 4.56 = 7171 lb-ft at rear axle

6L90: 300 lb-ft x 4.027 x 1.50 (converter ratio) x 4.10 = 7430 lb-ft

The auto can generate just as much torque. An 8 speed ZF with 4.7:1 1st gear would generate even more.

I think people go overkill with 900 lb-ft trucks because 1) they're showing off; and 2) that's all we have available in the NA market, where everything have to be excessive.

Good to see things turning around though, starting with the Ecodiesel, the Colorado, and soon the F150.

 

[p nut]

Yeah, my retirement vehicle will probably be different from my commuter/weekend warrior vehicle. Thinking it is going have to be bigger...then again you read about the guys who went huge and now a scaling back to a midsize.

Do like scrolling through this site seeing all the different setups: http://www.americanrvcompany.net/blog.asp


Our E350 box van was horrible in the wind but that was before the days of cross-wind migration....the C70 dump towing the JD 350, and the Mack Tri-Axle with the JD 555...was impervious...of course those things weren't exactly light either.

It has been windy as all get out here lately, my little Tacoma is getting push around while empty...

Still super curious how the GM does.

I figure my retirement touring set up will look something like these folks'.

Simple, slide in camper, gas 1/2 ton truck (hey, I want to head down to Mexico/Baja without worries of finding ULSD), a couple of bikes on the back. Not ideal for tight trails, but fortunately, there are more than enough trails it will fit on. It also gives us an option to get an Airstream if wanted (not likely, though, unless the wife demands).

 

[Clutch]

I figure my retirement touring set up will look something like these folks'.

Simple, slide in camper, gas 1/2 ton truck (hey, I want to head down to Mexico/Baja without worries of finding ULSD), a couple of bikes on the back. Not ideal for tight trails, but fortunately, there are more than enough trails it will fit on. It also gives us an option to get an Airstream if wanted (not likely, though, unless the wife demands).

Yeah, think that is the ideal setup....though part of me wants a 1 ton diesel so I don't have to worry about payload, and have plenty of power for towing.

Always wanted a an Airstream....she wants a a Bambi....believe that goes on the board of "Someday"....dunno, they are too nice to actually use it though. I am more of a converted cargo trailer type of camper. We just get filthy from riding dirt bikes....guess that is why they call "dirt" bikes. :elkgrin: Be nice to have a gas powered pressure washer in the trailer so we can wash them before they get loaded back up.

Speaking of Airstreams....and the like, did you see there are companies making retro campers now? Love the vintage stuff....alas...be afraid to run it down a dirt road to get away from the squids.

http://www.sierrarvsales.com/product/new-2015-shasta-rvs-airflyte-19-369105-29

 

[TwinStick]

That might be a bit of a stretch.

Modern 6 spds from Ford and GM use 4+:1 1st gear ratios, coupled with a 4.10 rear end, you have 16:1+ 1st gear ratio. But, then you have to factor in the torque converter, which can generate another 1.5:1 ratio.

Not quite G56/NV5600 ratio, but with a manual you don't have a converter, and the engagement point is at a lower rpm (say 1200), where the engine makes less torque.

Let's compare a GM 6.0 L96 with 6L90 to a fictional G56 / 4.56 truck with the same L96 engine. This engine makes 250 lb-ft @ 1200 rpm, 300 lb-ft @ 2000 (stall of converter):

G56: 250 lb-ft x 6.29 x 4.56 = 7171 lb-ft at rear axle

6L90: 300 lb-ft x 4.027 x 1.50 (converter ratio) x 4.10 = 7430 lb-ft

The auto can generate just as much torque. An 8 speed ZF with 4.7:1 1st gear would generate even more.

I think people go overkill with 900 lb-ft trucks because 1) they're showing off; and 2) that's all we have available in the NA market, where everything have to be excessive.

Good to see things turning around though, starting with the Ecodiesel, the Colorado, and soon the F150.

That may be, but sometimes the numbers just don't work---period. Looks like it should on paper but it just don't work like you think it should. Whether it is because of the computer programing, transmission programing, torque converter, or whatever, those 2 trucks were absolutely horrible to tow our campers with. I even had mine reflashed by the dealer. The result was, it sucked about 0.1% less than before the reflash. Out of the 5 speeds, 0nly 1-3 was actually useable when towing our camper.

I agree that it is good to see things turning around too.

 

[p nut]

Yeah, think that is the ideal setup....though part of me wants a 1 ton diesel so I don't have to worry about payload, and have plenty of power for towing.

Always wanted a an Airstream....she wants a a Bambi....believe that goes on the board of "Someday"....dunno, they are too nice to actually use it though. I am more of a converted cargo trailer type of camper. We just get filthy from riding dirt bikes....guess that is why they call "dirt" bikes. :elkgrin: Be nice to have a gas powered pressure washer in the trailer so we can wash them before they get loaded back up.

Speaking of Airstreams....and the like, did you see there are companies making retro campers now? Love the vintage stuff....alas...be afraid to run it down a dirt road to get away from the squids.

http://www.sierrarvsales.com/product/new-2015-shasta-rvs-airflyte-19-369105-29

Payload will be a top priority when "my last truck" is considered. I figure with a HD payload package with a 1/2 ton, it should get me ~2,500lbs. With the camper at 1,000 to 1,200 lbs, it should leave enough for cargo and junk. I really want to travel light. Maybe even a shell model you mentioned a while ago. That should get me plenty of capacity? If not, I will jump up to 3/4 ton (gas). Like I said, I'll be fishing/camping in Mexico and other southern American countries. Crap, now you've got me daydreaming again! Retirement is faaaaar away

http://www.fourwh.com/product/empty-shell-model-popup-truck-camper/
_
Dirt bikes would be hard to manage with a trailer set up. A mini-RV would make more sense, probably. Loses the versatility of a truck, but by then, maybe you won't need it!

 

[Clutch]

Payload will be a top priority when "my last truck" is considered. I figure with a HD payload package with a 1/2 ton, it should get me ~2,500lbs. With the camper at 1,000 to 1,200 lbs, it should leave enough for cargo and junk. I really want to travel light. Maybe even a shell model you mentioned a while ago. That should get me plenty of capacity? If not, I will jump up to 3/4 ton (gas). Like I said, I'll be fishing/camping in Mexico and other southern American countries. Crap, now you've got me daydreaming again! Retirement is faaaaar away

http://www.fourwh.com/product/empty-shell-model-popup-truck-camper/
_
Dirt bikes would be hard to manage with a trailer set up. A mini-RV would make more sense, probably. Loses the versatility of a truck, but by then, maybe you won't need it!

If you keep it light...shouldn't have a problem. Yeah I don't anything too too big...I start thinking about the wants and needs...and the "someday build" snowballs real quick. Goes from a 4 banger Tacoma to a 1/2 ton gasser to a 1 Ton diesel...hell...yeah! ummmm....no... scale it back... scale it back....

A half ton with a shell FWC should be fine...for the bikes, a small enclosed trailer like a 5X10 or 6X10 will get the job done without being hassle size-wise. Think the main problem with the cargo trailer and a foldout bed like a posted earlier...is smelling fuel from the bikes, that and bikes are fricken dirty, as I thought of adding a gas powered pressure...which is dumb, that just adds un-needed weight, just use a car wash dumb ********! when you roll back into a town ...might be better to have the sleeping and bike carrying compartments separate like I do now.

RV Toyhauler? hmmm maybe...still it is that whole trying to sleep with the bikes and fumes thing, not to mention dirty. Have a buddy that uses a box truck Fuso...cool and all, but awfully tall. That and they suck to drive.

Have a client who actually used to own an Earthroamer...they go through the same thing, have been all over the place...from ground tents to a RTT on Jeep JKU I think?, to a Sportsmobile...to an Earthroamer...think they are back in tents again, and itching for something else. That made me realize...ok, it just isn't me who has vehicle A.D.D. they just get to act upon it, I get to day dream about it.

Hopefully I am still riding into my 70's....




Back to slightly on topic regarding the GM reliability...client last night had a 2012 Chevy Traverse(?) which they bought new...only 50K miles the tranny went, among some other problems. Had Honda products in the past, traded it on another Honda. Totally anecdotal I know....still makes me think...hmmm...not sure if I can trust the GM. Especially reading stories about a million mile Tundra.

And back on backing on topic...wondering about Twinstick's 18' TT...is that a single axle? Wonder if a tandem axle would be better in the wind. I have towed tandem axles before, but it was for heavy equipment...not a lightweight kite on wheels.

 

[calicamper]

The Traverse the old prior version was pretty lame and had issues. But these days AT failure is not uncommon across all brands. Especially 6+ spd ats and cvts. But miles vs failures the CVTs have a collective better record today. Probably because hybrid taxis.

 

[luckyjoe]

I finally sat in a Canyon today. At 6'4" I was not at all impressed. I think the Honda Ridgeline has more room, especially in the rear seats. I'll have give it some serious thought, but the GM twins could be out of contention. At least I won't have to wonder about GM reliability...

 

[Buddha.]

I've been driving the blazer the last few days. I've done brakes front and rear as well as every suspension wear item front and rear in the thirty thousand miles i've had it and it already feels sloppy again. Then on the way home tonight I get a loud grinding sound from the back. Hopefully it's the brakes.

I'd have second thoughts of buying a complicated gm diesel myself.

 

[Clutch]

The Traverse the old prior version was pretty lame and had issues. But these days AT failure is not uncommon across all brands. Especially 6+ spd ats and cvts. But miles vs failures the CVTs have a collective better record today. Probably because hybrid taxis.

Never been a fan of AT's. Have never had a manual trans fail on me...only had to do clutches. Three Hundred and Forty Freaking Thousand miles on mine....last clutch lasted Two Hundred and Fifty Freaking Thousand miles! Dayum!

One of the reasons I am adamant on getting another manual trans truck. Choices are another Tacoma, Frontier, or the waaay over kill Ram Cummins.

Toyotas have treated me so well over the years...even though I look at everything else, would be extremely hard to stray from the brand.

I finally sat in a Canyon today. At 6'4" I was not at all impressed. I think the Honda Ridgeline has more room, especially in the rear seats. I'll have give it some serious thought, but the GM twins could be out of contention. At least I won't have to wonder about GM reliability...

I really like the Ridgeline. Misses a couple must haves for me, manual, extra cab 6' bed, though I could live with the DCSB, if it came down to it. Unsure how the unibody would hold up after years and years of running down washboard roads, that and it is little to low to the ground for me. Do like the aspect of not having to be careful with my Tacoma, you can pretty much go blasting off-road with out too much fear of tearing it up.

I've been driving the blazer the last few days. I've done brakes front and rear as well as every suspension wear item front and rear in the thirty thousand miles i've had it and it already feels sloppy again. Then on the way home tonight I get a loud grinding sound from the back. Hopefully it's the brakes.

I'd have second thoughts of buying a complicated gm diesel myself.

Redid the whole suspension/undercarriage in the Taco at 285K....55K later, still feels really tight. Did do poly bushes through out.

MPG sounds really inciting...don't think I could do the rest. Might be one of those you trade it in before the warranty is up type vehicles.

 

[RoyJ]

That may be, but sometimes the numbers just don't work---period. Looks like it should on paper but it just don't work like you think it should. Whether it is because of the computer programing, transmission programing, torque converter, or whatever, those 2 trucks were absolutely horrible to tow our campers with. I even had mine reflashed by the dealer. The result was, it sucked about 0.1% less than before the reflash. Out of the 5 speeds, 0nly 1-3 was actually useable when towing our camper.

I agree that it is good to see things turning around too.

Are you referring to the 5 speed Dodge 545RFE?

In that case I wholeheartedly agree - it's a crappy transmission. Thing is, it was never intended as a 5 spd, much less a "6 spd" (65RFE). 1st gear (3.00:1) and 2nd gear (1.67:1) has nearly a 50% drop in rpm, engine falls flat on its face during 1 to 2 shift.

The modern 8 spd is an entirely different animal though. The GM and Ford 6 spd, while not quite as good, is miles ahead of the 545RFE. Obviously those were never attached to a 6.4 Hemi, my calculations were based on a fictional setup.

God knows how good the new 10 speeds will be. Though I feel it's a bit much unless you're towing 18,000 lbs...

 

[Buliwyf]

I'm surprised there's so much debate about whether a truck can tow half it's rated capacity. I should think even the gasser verion would do it fine.

In the '90's, GM rated the S10 pickup as capable of towing 5,000 pounds. In reality, it could only tow 2,000. GM made cars back then that could tow more. I LOVED watching S10's and Rangers blow up towing trailers up rolling hills. Was a weekly occurrence.


Never trust the ratings.

 

[Buliwyf]

I was trying to not get into this but I guess I have to:

I see it every year when we go camping, every year. People pulling a camper that don't even weigh 5000 lbs with a CTD, DuraMax, Ford diesel w/900 ft lbs. I know WHY they do it, I just think it is BS that they HAVE to. Reason: The gas engine trucks are simply not geared for HD work. Not in the axles & not in the transmission gears. Which is part of the reason I ordered a Power Wagon with the manual transmission. I know bad mpgs are the result. But remember----not too long ago, we pulled a 6000 lb+ camper, with our station wagon !!! Yes, thats right, a car. It never overheated or had the transmission go out.

We bought our 10,500 lb Toy Hauler in 2004. We bought a 2004 Ram 2500 QC 4x4 w/Hemi/545RFE/4.10 axles/tow pkg. It absolutely SUCKED BIG TIME for pulling that camper. It would either be screaming in 2nd or lugging in 3rd & CONSTANTLY be shifting back & forth between them. My F-I-Law's 2004 Chevy w/6L/auto/4.10's did the exact same thing. I had to go from a 12 row factory, to a 24 row trans oil cooler & an engine oil cooler, just to keep it from self destructing from heat. It got the same or less mpg towing as my PW does with the way lower gears. Same engine (345hp) as the 04' but the 4.56's & the much lower transmission gears made towing the Toy Hauler easy peasy. If the newer gas trucks had transmissions & axles were really made for HD work, you wouldn't see people pulling 3-5000 lb campers with diesels. Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but not everybody that has one wants one. I meet them every year when camping. They buy them because the diesels HUGE torque makes up for the lack of proper transmission & axle ratios. They do not upshift/downshift all the time like the gas engines trying to do the same work. And therefore make the driver's experience towing, a whole lot less eventful. The conversation usually starts because they see my engine block heater plug on the front of the PW & ask, "how do you like your diesel for towing ?"

The more expensive fuel gets, the more diesels make sense. They are simply more efficient than a gas engine. But it seems here in the USA, Companies want you to pay up front for any type of savings you MIGHT get from their product. Which makes it a whole lot harder for people to get into the "save fuel, electricity, tree's, etc" mindset. It's like they don't want you to, because they throw every obstacle in your way. Yet they complain about how wasteful us consumers are ?

Also, just read where the Chevy Cruz diesel gets 54 mpg highway & beat out the Toyota Prius for the first time ever. It gets 52 mpg highway. So, maybe, just maybe, the diesels will finally take off good here in the USA, like they are in Europe ?

Maybe when my dealer gets one in, I will see if I can test drive it overnight & bring it home, readjust my hitch to work on that truck & take the camper out for a good test drive. No big hills around my immediate area but the highway is close.

You guys make a lot of good points. I appreciate it, thanks. Keep em coming if you want.

All good points. I agree completely.

But you have to equip a truck properly. Ford offer 4.30 gears with the 6.2L's. Towing a 10,000 pound trailer is childs play for a gas F350. Mine currently weighs 9800# loaded, and tows a 8340# trailer regularly for work. So I'll maintain, only get a diesel if you have no other choice. Our fleets are filled with gas work trucks. They're more reliable and more durable. The diesels only go into HUGE trucks, F450+. We can't afford downtime for repairs.

The average RV'r has no idea how to spec a truck, and the ones that do, their brain turns to much when they have to choose between a soft ride of a little trucks, and the firm ride of a real truck. Or mileage gears, vs towing gears. And I'll bet that many of those 4000# trailers have 3000# of junk in them.