Why I'll never buy another Chevy!

[gtbensley]

I'll be honest, this is the feedback I was looking for. A solid good opinion versus the matter. I appreciate and you make an excellent arguement. I use the Raptor as an example because is was a bold move and a good contribution to the off road community. One that was made like 7 years ago. Sure, I do agree GM is making changes. But it is also late in the game. And I would agree with you to some extent on the TRD badges. But also, people keep bringing up the Colorado. Sure, nice... but I built one on line with an msrp of $50k. For a mid size that seems insane. All I did was click like two packages. I mean, if that's a competator for Toyota, jesus. My TRDPro was only $44k. But you are correct. The Tundra doesnt have a rear locker. But it does come in at like 386 horse on the TRDPro package for $46k. No matter what, I think you make great points. Still though, I think GM could step it up. Once again though, it's only my opinion on it.

You think Toyota is more innovative then GM currently? The TRD lines are a joke for what you pay for (all trucks are too much money). I guess you get a few wimpy skid plates, a rear electronic locker (on the Tacoma), a 3.5L motor better fit for the minivan it came from (tacoma) and a weak plastic bed and a sweet badge on the side that says TRD. The Tundra is a great truck but old by all measures as is the 4 runner. They have nothing new. Having said this, I like Toyotas, I like Fords, I like GMs, and I like the IDEA of the Rams but think they have incredibly poor quality and reliability.

If anything, I think GM is leading the pack in the truck segment for innovative ideas. Toyota sure isnt. Ford has the raptor which is cool but also only fit for the desert. Ram has the power wagon which is also cool and I can appreciate that. GM has the ZR2, and will soon have a diesel 1500.

Honestly though, how many people really use these trucks for "off roading"? I just did a 5k mile trip with lots and lots of forest service roads and dirt roads and never needed 4wd. Overlanding is a wannabe trend (hate all you want on this comment, I am clearly part of this trend as I am on the site). My point being, IFS works fine. So does a solid front axle......to each their own. I am not hating on any of these brands but I dont think it fair to say one company has not been innovative enough. None of them really have.

I do want to see these companies take steps to bring new ideas to the market but remember, they are there to turn a profit and we are the small % of people who may want these expensive RR ideas and concepts. They need to see a return on their investment. The Hellcat is a good example of this. Impractical but marketed well to help sell it.

 

[Smileyshaun]

 

[Dalko43]

You think Toyota is more innovative then GM currently? The TRD lines are a joke for what you pay for (all trucks are too much money). I guess you get a few wimpy skid plates, a rear electronic locker (on the Tacoma), a 3.5L motor better fit for the minivan it came from (tacoma) and a weak plastic bed and a sweet badge on the side that says TRD. The Tundra is a great truck but old by all measures as is the 4 runner. They have nothing new. Having said this, I like Toyotas, I like Fords, I like GMs, and I like the IDEA of the Rams but think they have incredibly poor quality and reliability.

If anything, I think GM is leading the pack in the truck segment for innovative ideas. Toyota sure isnt. Ford has the raptor which is cool but also only fit for the desert. Ram has the power wagon which is also cool and I can appreciate that. GM has the ZR2, and will soon have a diesel 1500.

Honestly though, how many people really use these trucks for "off roading"? I just did a 5k mile trip with lots and lots of forest service roads and dirt roads and never needed 4wd. Overlanding is a wannabe trend (hate all you want on this comment, I am clearly part of this trend as I am on the site). My point being, IFS works fine. So does a solid front axle......to each their own. I am not hating on any of these brands but I dont think it fair to say one company has not been innovative enough. None of them really have.

I do want to see these companies take steps to bring new ideas to the market but remember, they are there to turn a profit and we are the small % of people who may want these expensive RR ideas and concepts. They need to see a return on their investment. The Hellcat is a good example of this. Impractical but marketed well to help sell it.

Agree with most of this. GM has made significant contributions to the offroad segment as of late. That doesn't mean the brand, or the underlying vehicles, are perfect. I like Toyota's, but the TRD stamp is more about image than it is about outright performance; the underlying Toyota platforms are very capable and reliable, but some of those designs are quite dated by now. It just doesn't make sense to criticize GM for not being innovative enough with their offroad designs when Toyota has been milking sales from the same fundamental Tundra/Sequoia and 4runner designs for 10+ years.

I have a preference for a solid axle up front once the truck gets beyond a certain size and weight. But IFS trucks have certainly proven themselves all over the world, including the Australian Outback. A lot of this comes down to what we want and not necessarily what we need. Very few of us actually need a 4x4 truck with big tires, armor, bull bars, air compressor, ect., but that's what we want, so the OEM's and aftermarket companies oblige us as much as they can. There are a few things I don't like about GM's newer designs, but overall I think they're competitive contributions to the truck market, and I'm certainly considering a used ZR2 down the road.

I disagree on Ram having lower quality compared to the rest, but that's a subjective issue unto itself.

 

[Tex68w]

Now that's just funny, you're the hater spouting your hatred here, so obviously you have skeletons of abuse hidden in the closet!

Skeletons of abuse hidden in my closet? LOL, man what are you smoking? I love how ridiculous your assumptions are about me. I have literally never had a run in with anyone else on this board but yourself. Most understand tongue in cheek and sarcasm but every now and then there's a guy like yourself that takes everything too seriously and gets offended.

Grow up man, you're an adult in a forum where opinions and experiences are spoken and shared freely. If they don't align with those of your own then just keep reading and agree to disagree, not everything is about you.

 

[NevadaLover]

Skeletons of abuse hidden in my closet? LOL, man what are you smoking? I love how ridiculous your assumptions are about me. I have literally never had a run in with anyone else on this board but yourself. Most understand tongue in cheek and sarcasm but every know and then there's a guy like yourself that takes everything too seriously and gets offended.

Grow up man, you're an adult in a forum where opinions and experiences are spoken and shared freely. If they don't align with those of your own then just keep reading and agree to disagree, not everything is about you.

You definitely need to go look up your old posts and see the examples of what makes you not just a liar now but also a hypocrite!
And also look at your posts from a different view, most of what you write is "me me look at me, agree with me", so practice some of what you preach lil hypocrite boy!

 

[Tex68w]

You definitely need to go look up your old posts and see the examples of what makes you not just a liar now but also a hypocrite!
And also look at your posts from a different view, most of what you write is "me me look at me, agree with me", so practice some of what you preach lil hypocrite boy!

This will be my last reply since you seem very dense and unable to grasp the reality of the situation here and I don't want to further clog up the OP's thread with this nonsense.

Call a man a liar and you better be prepared to defend that claim, but I am not surprised in such an accusation when I look at your replies full of emotion, assumptions, and grammatical diarrhea. I don't give a crap that your feelings were hurt, you're a man, act like one and stop whinning like a two-year old girl. I don't need to look at my posts from a different point of view because this isn't a kumbaya circle where we all need to agree and love one another.

And I hardly see how I am begging for attention in my posts, I am simply replying with my opinion which I am entitled to just like yourself. Your problem is that you simply don't know how to handle an opinion that is in direct conflict with that of your own and instead of respecting that differing view you get all bent out of shape and cry about it and run and tell the teacher. It's pathetic that I even have to say this here but GROW THE %*$% UP. And nice jab calling me a boy, internet key board warriors are always the bravest aren't they?

 

[NevadaLover]

This will be my last reply since you seem very dense and unable to grasp the reality of the situation here and I don't want to further clog up the OP's thread with this nonsense.

Call a man a liar and you better be prepared to defend that claim, but I am not surprised in such an accusation when I look at your replies full of emotion, assumptions, and grammatical diarrhea. I don't give a crap that your feelings were hurt, you're a man, act like one and stop whinning like a two-year old girl. I don't need to look at my posts from a different point of view because this isn't a kumbaya circle where we all need to agree and love one another.

And I hardly see how I am begging for attention in my posts, I am simply replying with my opinion which I am entitled to just like yourself. Your problem is that you simply don't know how to handle an opinion that is in direct conflict with that of your own and instead of respecting that differing view you get all bent out of shape and cry about it and run and tell the teacher. It's pathetic that I even have to say this here but GROW THE %*$% UP. And nice jab calling me a boy, internet key board warriors are always the bravest aren't they?

Like talking to a mirror isn't!

 

[gtbensley]

Agree with most of this. GM has made significant contributions to the offroad segment as of late. That doesn't mean the brand, or the underlying vehicles, are perfect. I like Toyota's, but the TRD stamp is more about image than it is about outright performance; the underlying Toyota platforms are very capable and reliable, but some of those designs are quite dated by now. It just doesn't make sense to criticize GM for not being innovative enough with their offroad designs when Toyota has been milking sales from the same fundamental Tundra/Sequoia and 4runner designs for 10+ years.

I have a preference for a solid axle up front once the truck gets beyond a certain size and weight. But IFS trucks have certainly proven themselves all over the world, including the Australian Outback. A lot of this comes down to what we want and not necessarily what we need. Very few of us actually need a 4x4 truck with big tires, armor, bull bars, air compressor, ect., but that's what we want, so the OEM's and aftermarket companies oblige us as much as they can. There are a few things I don't like about GM's newer designs, but overall I think they're competitive contributions to the truck market, and I'm certainly considering a used ZR2 down the road.

I disagree on Ram having lower quality compared to the rest, but that's a subjective issue unto itself.

I should say that my experience with Ram is basically nothing. I am basing it of Chrysler Fiat which is probably not fair. I work in the industry and see SOOOOO many issues with their cars and suv but admittedly we dont see many trucks. Know that I think about it, same goes for Ford too though.

 

[Todd780]

I like spaghetti. It's way better than fettuccine.

Wait..... What forum am I on again??

 

[ellevehc86]

You think Toyota is more innovative then GM currently? The TRD lines are a joke for what you pay for (all trucks are too much money). I guess you get a few wimpy skid plates, a rear electronic locker (on the Tacoma), a 3.5L motor better fit for the minivan it came from (tacoma) and a weak plastic bed and a sweet badge on the side that says TRD. The Tundra is a great truck but old by all measures as is the 4 runner. They have nothing new. Having said this, I like Toyotas, I like Fords, I like GMs, and I like the IDEA of the Rams but think they have incredibly poor quality and reliability.

If anything, I think GM is leading the pack in the truck segment for innovative ideas. Toyota sure isnt. Ford has the raptor which is cool but also only fit for the desert. Ram has the power wagon which is also cool and I can appreciate that. GM has the ZR2, and will soon have a diesel 1500.

Honestly though, how many people really use these trucks for "off roading"? I just did a 5k mile trip with lots and lots of forest service roads and dirt roads and never needed 4wd. Overlanding is a wannabe trend (hate all you want on this comment, I am clearly part of this trend as I am on the site). My point being, IFS works fine. So does a solid front axle......to each their own. I am not hating on any of these brands but I dont think it fair to say one company has not been innovative enough. None of them really have.

I do want to see these companies take steps to bring new ideas to the market but remember, they are there to turn a profit and we are the small % of people who may want these expensive RR ideas and concepts. They need to see a return on their investment. The Hellcat is a good example of this. Impractical but marketed well to help sell it.

I would have to disagree with you on a few of these points. Speaking for my 4Runner. The skid plate is far from whimsy. In fact it's like a brick of aluminum bolted to the front. It's one of the more impressive plates I have seen! The suspension is not to shabby. I mean nothing ground breaking, but solid. I will say that the KDSS system is impressive in my opinion. And I cant recall anyone else in the market with something similar. Additionally, mine does have a rear locker and the crawl control is a nice feature. I can't see alot of use for it, but it's a smart system. Some of these GM cant compare to.

I will agree with you fully! I dont think we wheel are vehicles enough! Dont be afraid to admit it! Lol. I think its the truth! But it makes sense though! The nature of overlanding is the journey. Part of that is coming back. You cant do that in a destroyed rig at Moab. Especially if your hike is 2000+ miles. Additionally, destroying a $60 or $80k of road hurts!!!!

And I do get it, we are a small market. But I believe we are a only a small market for now.

 

[Buliwyf]

To get all the GM guys riled up so quickly, you must have hit pretty close to home. Despite owning half a dozen of the damn things, you still got called a troll in just a few posts in. Lol. So there is clearly some truth in what you're saying. No one gets so butthurt over nonsense.

''GM has left the market.'' Pretty much sums up my point of view. They haven't built a solid axle truck in forever, and the newest 'burbs are just shells of the trucks that they were in the 80's. Ground clearance, lockers, easy to lift, are not as easy with GM's anymore. Offroad campers, aren't high on their list of priorities. They're not in the fullsize expo market anymore.

Before we continue to give them credit for the ZR2, maybe GM should pay the bill for the $6000 airbag failures first. Why recommend a truck with such issues to people? Let GM fix it, and make things right with the currently screwed owners before we give them kudos for the ZR2. Some serious hardcore bad advice recommending that truck right now.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/09...-are-experiencing-off-road-airbag-deployment/

https://www.coloradofans.com/forums...riveline-issues-side-airbag-deployment-5.html

If I was a ZR2 guy right now, there'd be a shortage of brand new 'vettes without Duratrac tread marks on their crushed hoods.

I'd love to give Ford kudos for the Raptor, but none of the Raptor stuff is available on lower model F150's. I should be able to order an XL or STX with Raptor fenders, wheels, and hood.

Same goes for Dodges stupid Powerwagon. Why couldn't I order PW lockers on the base or Tradesman? No lockers and the goofy YJ front axle had me walking out of the Dodge lot in haste. ''So why not buy a PW?'' Because the PW also has softer springs, not as soft as the RTT only Raptor, but still it's cargo capacity is only two sacks of potatos. And $$$$, they're Raptor priced around here. A base model AND a FWC Hawk are hardly more expensive together.

I've already mentioned what I don't like about the 'burbs and GM 2500's that I test drove last December, before I bought my new ride, in other threads, so I won't beleaguer this thread with that. My current fullsize needs are simple:
35-37" tires for axle and diff clearance, with NO, or minimum amount of lift.
Detroit locker front, selectable rear
Olde school Warn hubs, Dodge guys call it a ''freespin kit''.
Haul a shortbed 1700# slide in camper.
Acceptable ride.
Acceptable interior ergo's.
Decent flex, just enough to cross a roadside ditch.
Gasoline.

Dodge was close, Ford a lot closer. GM was miles away. They had nothing to offer me over a Dodge.

I'm hoping the Bronco will be a 4 door Wrangler, that's less fruity. With actual leg room. And solid axles, Dana 44 or better. If it's a girly new age range rover, I'll flip out. If it's a Ford badged 4runner clone, I'll buy the 4runner. If it comes with toothpick axles, I won't be happy. Honda already makes CRV's.

Taho's and 'burbs are just big Subaru Outbacks to me. ...actually, the Subaru might have better ground clearance. Haha.

I'm not a 4runner fan, but they're walking the walk, all over the place, and have great aftermarket support. Can't argue with what works.

I'm not sure where the ''Raptor is only good in the desert.'' comments are coming from. We have tons of dirt and gravel roads on the east coast still, and no expo trucks fit on our trails. Or at least it's extremely rare. Gravel and washed out dirt roads might be my only expo time this month. Raptors rule at that. And half the rides here, only have RTT's or dinky lil' baby trailers. Something Raptors handle fine. I can say something similar about the Rebel.

Our tight trails are best for bikes and boots. And don't really fit into the expo bit at all. Those trails aren't a means to a destination, they ARE the destination. Expo people would cruise right on by on the freeway. Basecamp at the trailhead, unload the jeeps with one ton axles and the dirt bikes. Brrraaaaap.

 

[Buliwyf]

I challenge you to convince me that ANY of those are needed to have a successful "overland" trip. Very little is truly needed to overland.

Depends where you are going. Most of the time 2wd is all I need, any stock truck will do. But then the road washes away and I have ditches, river crossings, soft muddy flooded roads, that would make hardcore short range wheelers think twice. Or someone wrecks their bike and we have to traverse a steep pole line to get to it. Towing bikes with bikes, sucks. Sand dunes and logging roads can get sketchy as well.

My weekend camping plans can go from flat easy open diff stuff, to full lockers, big tires, in just a few hours.

That's why I love winter. One good blizzard turns every road into an expo road on the way to a cabin in the woods.

 

[ellevehc86]

To get all the GM guys riled up so quickly, you must have hit pretty close to home. Despite owning half a dozen of the damn things, you still got called a troll in just a few posts in. Lol. So there is clearly some truth in what you're saying. No one gets so butthurt over nonsense.

Lol, you aint kidding! I mean, i really am looking for input on the topic. But that is just hostility! You'd think I came outta the gate saying "Chevy is the worst POS ever!" I don't know how many times I stated I love the brand. But it's an opinion, Jeez. Moreover, it's not an overly negative one at that. Mind you, there was also very little comments on some of the other points I pointed out such as the rust issue on NNBS. I don't think anyone can argue that point. A rusty 6 year old truck is unacceptable by any means in terms of quality. I am sure people will say that is no different from other manufacturers. But one, that should never be acceptable from any manufacture and two, my 1994 was rust free in the same exact climate, in the same exact driveway for 15 years! Either way, I am not here to change opinions or minds. I just wanted to hear what people thought and to see if other people felt the same way. It's just kinda sad people can't handle an opinion in a mature way. Moreover, I just didn't think I would get that sorta response from the Overland community here (mind you, I fully acknowledge that this does NOT make up the majority of the community). But I do appreciate the support and the input on the topic and I agree with you. As far as being called "clickbait", I guess if people take it that way, that's how they are gonna take it. Yeah, I have a YouTube show. I have it because I want to contribute topics to the community. In fact, I have been posting videos on here for years. My first I believe being back here in 2015. I do reviews all the time. I post my videos about my trips and do DIYs. The sad thing, I generally get 0 responses. Not that, thats what I am all about. I just enjoy making them and sharing. But I post one with an opinion and its like I am posting fascist hate speech, lol. Either way, I don't take it personally. Its the internet. You can't make everyone happy. And overall, the feedback I got in waaayyyy more positive than negative and that all that matters!

 

[Buliwyf]

Preaching to the choir on that one. And they don't get pissed about us trolling on their stupid square wheelwells. They get pissed when we bring legit concerns up. Lolz. It's bizzaro land. I suspect that some of it is just trickle down from the RV world.

The part that bugs me the worst, is it's pretty much borderline bad advice. Not just fanboyism.

''I love GM's, but they're crappy now.'' Should be perfectly fine.
''Buy a ZR2, your girlfriend won't mind the side curtain airbag ripping her ear off and flinging it into a fast moving river.'' Not so much.

Yet it's the opposite here. GM has completely bailed and left everyone with huge repair bills, and nope, we'll still keep recommending ZR2's to newbs.

 

[ellevehc86]

Preaching to the choir on that one. And they don't get pissed about us trolling on their stupid square wheelwells. They get pissed when we bring legit concerns up. Lolz. It's bizzaro land. I suspect that some of it is just trickle down from the RV world.

The part that bugs me the worst, is it's pretty much borderline bad advice. Not just fanboyism.

''I love GM's, but they're crappy now.'' Should be perfectly fine.
''Buy a ZR2, your girlfriend won't mind the side curtain airbag ripping her ear off and flinging it into a fast moving river.'' Not so much.

Yet it's the opposite here. GM has completely bailed and left everyone with huge repair bills, and nope, we'll still keep recommending ZR2's to newbs.

All correct sir! that's it exactly! Its legit concerns! I love my Bowtie, so I want the best from them!