Why not a Hummer?
- Thread starter Frank
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Hilldweller
SE Expedition Society
Yeah, that's sorta pricey but not insane.
I'll put one on my Lotto list at least. I'm a fan. The Ranger school is near where we camp and I see them scampering all over the place. They grow on you.
I'll put one on my Lotto list at least. I'm a fan. The Ranger school is near where we camp and I see them scampering all over the place. They grow on you.
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
Sorry, but "resupply" is never regular and I have lived out of one for 5 months with only weekly resupply. If you know how to pack they will hold a ton of stuff. The civilian version has even more room since it lacks all the commo, BFT, and IED defeating gear.
As some one who has driven/ridden/maintained/lived in/fought from them since 1996 in two different MOS's I would with out question take one anywhere in the world with out worry, or fear of not having enough room. What it lacks in maneuverability it makes up for in over engineering and durability. Plus the roof system is strong enough to literally hold a ton of gear. Then you always have the doors, sides, and read to hang gear off of.
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
Blah..a 1025 will push a 5" pine tree over if you center it on the front "bumper". they do a glorious job of clearing a path....lol
bajajoaquin
Adventurer
Then why don't you have one?
And would you pack that way when making an overland trip with your family? Can you sleep in the back of one, stretched out?
My point isn't that they aren't capable, or well-engineered. They obviously are. But when you get down to the compromises people are interested in making, there are very few who select the compromises that go into that vehicle over the ones that went into a full size truck. Or, when you need the carrying capacity and off-road capability that they have, you're talking about competing against a medium-duty truck or Unimog.
And bashing down trees by putting the center of the bumper on it? That may be fun, but it's not a really effective way to get through a tight trail. (Not that I buy that argument about tight trails. This is about overland travel, not rock crawling up single-track.)
Look, if you want to say, "I really like Hummers. They go anywhere, and I really have a soft spot for them. Do you think it will work for an Expo vehicle?" The answer is absolutely yes. I'll probably commiserate with you about how much I miss my Series III 88, even though it was slow, had no range, loud, and I couldn't carry a yard of gravel in it. Or how I have drawings for an M35A2 expo camper, because the only way I can legally drive one in CA is as a camper, and I really freaking want one.
But if you ask (as was here), "Why don't we see more of them on Expo?" then I'm going to stand by my answer: most people aren't interested in making the compromises that were made in designing a military transportation vehicle. You among them.
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Quill
Adventurer
Price and availability are likely culprits. Lets face it if they went used for under 10 or 20K, more would have them. With no military surplus units they are not plentiful. I really dig them, but I feel they are a bit over sized. Obviously if they couldn't do as good a job as a off the show room floor model of any brand there would be changes. In fact there is a smaller vehicle in the works and larger ones. They could use some customizing to perk them up a little. What vehicle doesn't?
D
Deleted member 9101
Guest
The only reason I don't have one is I have absolutely no use for one. I am perfectly happy with my 2WD truck on 20's. Sleeping in a truck might be a vacation for some, but I could go the rest of my life with out doing it again...lol.
As for sleeping it or packing a family... its has as much room as many SUV's and more than a Jeep...lol. Depending how they are configured they can have a cavernous amount of interior room. Out "contact trucks" have as much if not more room than any LC or LR ever produced.
rickc
Adventurer
Hi all: For any one really interested in investigating H(1)s any further go peek at the Hummer Network (www.humvee.net) and Flash Offroad (www.flashoffroad.com).
H1s are temperamental; if you have ever owned an older Italian or Brit motorbike you will know what this is all about. For such a big truck with such solid and relatively over-size suspension components, you feel everything. There's very little soundproofing so this is a contributing factor. Fluid leaks come and go, sometimes all by themselves. The stock 6.5 diesel/4L80-E combo provides plenty of low range grunt but limits highway driving speed, especially on hills, especially if towing. The '06 Alpha is better but much more expensive.
H1 parts come from a variety of sources. The older trucks civvie upgrades are relatively primative and unreliable. The simplest stuff breaks easily and can cost a fortune to replace (H1 tax).
Maintenance is critical. If you are really lucky and get a truck with a good service history then keep it up (cross your fingers) and you should be OK. Don't get one if you don't have the time or aptitude to do the basic maintenance yourself.
I got my 98 about 5 years ago with 30k km on it. It had a full service history and was in amazing shape. It was a ticking time bomb; the older GM motors were notorious for cracked blocks, weak bottom ends and a number of smaller issues. The most common fault when used in Hummers is a cracked block in the #8 piston position. Last year at around 55k km My engine failed (#8). It's now got a GEP P-400; still a 6.5 TD but built like a brick.
H1 pricing is all over the place and there are a number of critical items that prospective buyers must be aware of. If anyone here is really interested in a particular truck then go to the 'Network and ask for help; the Forum members will bend over backwards to help and even go check the truck out for you.
H1s are temperamental; if you have ever owned an older Italian or Brit motorbike you will know what this is all about. For such a big truck with such solid and relatively over-size suspension components, you feel everything. There's very little soundproofing so this is a contributing factor. Fluid leaks come and go, sometimes all by themselves. The stock 6.5 diesel/4L80-E combo provides plenty of low range grunt but limits highway driving speed, especially on hills, especially if towing. The '06 Alpha is better but much more expensive.
H1 parts come from a variety of sources. The older trucks civvie upgrades are relatively primative and unreliable. The simplest stuff breaks easily and can cost a fortune to replace (H1 tax).
Maintenance is critical. If you are really lucky and get a truck with a good service history then keep it up (cross your fingers) and you should be OK. Don't get one if you don't have the time or aptitude to do the basic maintenance yourself.
I got my 98 about 5 years ago with 30k km on it. It had a full service history and was in amazing shape. It was a ticking time bomb; the older GM motors were notorious for cracked blocks, weak bottom ends and a number of smaller issues. The most common fault when used in Hummers is a cracked block in the #8 piston position. Last year at around 55k km My engine failed (#8). It's now got a GEP P-400; still a 6.5 TD but built like a brick.
H1 pricing is all over the place and there are a number of critical items that prospective buyers must be aware of. If anyone here is really interested in a particular truck then go to the 'Network and ask for help; the Forum members will bend over backwards to help and even go check the truck out for you.
Chris Cordes
Expedition Leader
H3s can be quite capable and IMO the smaller size better mileage etc makes them a better option. Like someone else said I think it all depends on the driver. I pull my friends Rubi out all the time but in all honesty it should out perform me. Adventure package H3s have front and rear lockers stock which is pretty good in my opinion. That said I agree that 95% of hummers are pavement pounders and never see dirt sadly.
FellowTraveler
Explorer
Hummer?
Biggest H1 issue "logistics" in civilian world.
The drive train has cooling issues too like the t-case cooler failures.
The worst issue is that AM General installed 6.5 bad motors (cracking blocks) in many 2002 and back H1's. However, GM in May 1999 started installing the enhanced version of the 6.5 td in their Suburbans and vans until 2002 which is the best 6.5 in any civilian vehicles.
Why anyone would prefer to get 8 maybe 9 mpg from an H1 w/diesel when you can get 3+ times that w/Suburban w/diesel?
IMHO the H1 is not the best for expo or overland, "thumb down",
the H2 is an overpriced piece of crapola w/10 bolt rear but can be better with deep pocket owner, "thumb down",
the H3 is a good choice and I've seen them build right for expo/overland w/o deep pocket requirement. "thumb up"
Biggest H1 issue "logistics" in civilian world.
The drive train has cooling issues too like the t-case cooler failures.
The worst issue is that AM General installed 6.5 bad motors (cracking blocks) in many 2002 and back H1's. However, GM in May 1999 started installing the enhanced version of the 6.5 td in their Suburbans and vans until 2002 which is the best 6.5 in any civilian vehicles.
Why anyone would prefer to get 8 maybe 9 mpg from an H1 w/diesel when you can get 3+ times that w/Suburban w/diesel?
IMHO the H1 is not the best for expo or overland, "thumb down",
the H2 is an overpriced piece of crapola w/10 bolt rear but can be better with deep pocket owner, "thumb down",
the H3 is a good choice and I've seen them build right for expo/overland w/o deep pocket requirement. "thumb up"
Ron B
Explorer
diesel H1's do not get 8 or 9 mpg -- the gas ones do and they only made a few hundred of those in the mid 90's. My H1 is on 40's and get's 13 to 15 on the freeway, which is pretty good for a truck the shape of a cinderblock weighing 8000 lbs loaded.
Yes, it was bad form to put engines in that had a high likelihood to go bad -- but in their defense they did replace most that went bad -- some went at 10k miles and some went at 70k miles.
If they are maintained properly they will go forever. Yes, it is more maintenance than a typical vehicle -- but it was not designed to be a typical vehicle. AMGeneral was originally going to use Styer engines but the gov threw a fit because it was a foreign motor. They used the 6.2 because it was small enough to maintain the excellent ground clearance and low height. The 6.5 was fine, the trouble began when the turbo was added -- too much heat and not enough air.
The n/a 6.2's and 6.5's run great and go forever. They are short on power on the freeway, but do every bit as good offroad, which is where this truck shines.
The only problems I have had with mine in the 7 years of ownership has been with my aftermarket stuff and taking the truck beyond it's design parameters. Bottom line is that they are good trucks and can be very dependable with proper maintenance. Go to any car forum and you will see the same "how do I fix this" and "how do I fix that" and "oh **** I just broke xxx". It's too bad it has a rep for bad mpg, all our vehicles are bad, it's not really fair to just pull this one out of the pile of trucks and point at it as a bad example.
As far as an expedition vehicle, the H1 would make an excellent one...but as others have mentioned the downsides would be sticking out like a sore thumb and the width in some places.
rb
FellowTraveler
Explorer
MPG response
Good to hear you get that kind of mileage everyone I've ever had contact with who owned one ************** moaned and groaned about the mileage in pretty much stock form, never considered then came in a gas version, anyway, that mpg is good for the vehicle.
8k loaded what is the GVWR? My burb has 8.6k GVWR
In my experience I've found most dealerships that sold the 6.2 or 6.5 NA or turbo found in GM or AM products did not have qualified personnel to work on them and at $85. plus per hour always had a good line of BS to cover their lack of knowledge. I took to learning myself everything needed to know to diagnose and repair my 6.5td.
Good to hear you get that kind of mileage everyone I've ever had contact with who owned one ************** moaned and groaned about the mileage in pretty much stock form, never considered then came in a gas version, anyway, that mpg is good for the vehicle.
8k loaded what is the GVWR? My burb has 8.6k GVWR
In my experience I've found most dealerships that sold the 6.2 or 6.5 NA or turbo found in GM or AM products did not have qualified personnel to work on them and at $85. plus per hour always had a good line of BS to cover their lack of knowledge. I took to learning myself everything needed to know to diagnose and repair my 6.5td.
Ron B
Explorer
The curb wt varies from yr to yr (they gained a bit of weight almost every year as more crap was added). My '97's curb is 6610. The gvwr of nearly all civy hummers (h1's after GM bought the name) is 10,300. The fleet trucks (border patrol etc...) and the '06 Alpha's were 12,100 gvw.
One thing I forgot to mention above was that less than 12000 of these were made over 14 yrs of production. Like I said, a bit more maintenance than the typical truck you find at the dealership, and probably closer to a tractor than a truck, but really stable and extremely capable and fun to drive. I read once that hummers aren't great at anything, but they are good at everything.
Ron
One thing I forgot to mention above was that less than 12000 of these were made over 14 yrs of production. Like I said, a bit more maintenance than the typical truck you find at the dealership, and probably closer to a tractor than a truck, but really stable and extremely capable and fun to drive. I read once that hummers aren't great at anything, but they are good at everything.
Ron
MADE4THIS
New member
and very proud owner of 2000 HUMMER H1 , it is impossible to compare the hummer to any other truck, its 2 inches lower than my RANGE ROVER and 2 ft wider,18" ground clearance? wow, the places that 99% of 4x4s must go 5 mph hummer h1 can pass 30 mph. u dont have to worry about undercarriage damage its all protected ,
would u add Heavy duty bumpers on ur truck? lockers? winch? under carriage protection?
brush guard? etc etc hummer has all of them from the factory .
if u worry about the size, dont worry because if u wont fit in a few narrow trails, u can make u turn on many other trails and come down, and 90% of 4x4 will roll over. and remember rollover is the most common problem in 4x4 world.
the reason ppl dont buy hummers is they are expensive, parts are with order only. u cant park it on the street like a jeep or land rover
its very much like any other exotic car, toy.
as far as fuel? this is my answer>> 4000 lb heavier than my range rover. 2 mpg better than my range rover. and + when u drive a hummer h1 who gives a s..t about fuel cost.
those people that complain are the ones that cant even afford to own a spare tire ( with a CTIS in there
) from hummer h1
would u add Heavy duty bumpers on ur truck? lockers? winch? under carriage protection?
brush guard? etc etc hummer has all of them from the factory .
if u worry about the size, dont worry because if u wont fit in a few narrow trails, u can make u turn on many other trails and come down, and 90% of 4x4 will roll over. and remember rollover is the most common problem in 4x4 world.
the reason ppl dont buy hummers is they are expensive, parts are with order only. u cant park it on the street like a jeep or land rover
its very much like any other exotic car, toy.
as far as fuel? this is my answer>> 4000 lb heavier than my range rover. 2 mpg better than my range rover. and + when u drive a hummer h1 who gives a s..t about fuel cost.
those people that complain are the ones that cant even afford to own a spare tire ( with a CTIS in there
) from hummer h1
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bftank
Explorer
those people that complain are the ones that cant even afford to own a spare tire ( with a CTIS in there
that is why i don't like ferrari's, corvettes, aston martins, pinzgauers, cadillacs, porsches, the king ranch edition, 54" boggers, twin turbo cummins, p-pumped powerstrokes, vipers, custom extended hood peterbuilt 359's, john deer tractors, kobe beef, health insurance, etc. etc. i hate things i can't afford. i just get so green with envy i have to see my government paid psychiatrist in order to make it through the week without stabbing someone with my hamburger flipping spatula.
by the way anyone can get a hummer spare tire for less than a $100. its the ctis rim that is expensive.
(i put the smile there so i didn't seem arrogant or condescending).to add to the thread, i don't see why they wouldn't be a decent expo vehicle for particular places. i mean for crying out loud on the portal we have everything from overloaded f650's to suzuki samurai's. it just depends on what you want to do and why you want to do it.
for me
the downsides would be: hard to get parts for locally. too wide for the trails. (some of the trails i am on, if you do a uturn you die). sticks out like a sore thumb, easily broken into, can't get a manual transmission.
the upsides would be: built tough, decent ability stock, biodiesel capable, looks cool.
in my opinion i can get these upsides for cheaper out of the vehicles that i have, all the while having the comfort in knowing that i built it so it will last.