Why the Toyota Land Cruiser is so expensive

[redthies]

Ok guy
You're not worthy of anymore response

What? You don't think a Furd Expedition is more reliable than a Land Cruiser?? That's crazy talk!!





Oh, wait. I forgot we're not in opposite land. Mr Justcuz clearly knows everything about "reliability" having owned vehicles from the 50s and 60s. Just cuz there are a few restored or reborn Willys running around doesn't make them reliable. Cool, sure. Reliable, I seriously doubt it.

 

[justcuz]

Kurt,

That is a great opportunity and it is nice that he recognizes the potential of the American market.
I also find it interesting that Toyota will invest tons of money in a product that does not sell much over a 100 thousand trucks a year (full size Tundra/Sequoia) and they created the FJ Cruiser that had a sunset before the first one was ever built. I seem to recall the limited production being part of the launch.
It almost seems that they would get a better return on their investment by offering the Land Cruiser in three different trim levels, from fairly spartan to luxurious.
No auto maker is perfect and occasionally they misjudge the market, so it never hurts to put in a plug for a product.

 

[justcuz]

Except the expeditions you talk about are probably not on the original motor or transmission, and at the very least have had them rebuilt. Also just stepping into a land cruiser vs an expedition will show a huge difference in build quality. Here's a 100 series with over 400,000 miles on it with full armor
http://www.xoverland.com/xfan-rigs/attachment/99-land-cruiser/

Yes they were all original engines, transmissions and running gear. Very well maintained though. I would hope their would be a difference in build quality considering the price difference and the Land Cruiser being more of a niche vehicle as compared to millions of first gen Expeditions that were sold. Kind of like comparing a Crown Vic to a Town Car. Just saying with good maintanance there are many reliable vehicles out there that can cover 2 to 3 hundred thousand miles. Toyota does not have an exclusive on that.

 

[Tundraexplorer]

Yes, but Toyota does seem to have it pretty well down that even without good maintenece they will have no problem hitting 300k+. Most 100 series owners don't even really consider 300,000 to be that high mileage. Used for sure, but plenty of life left. A Sequoia would probably be more equivilant to an expedition

 

[justcuz]

Excellent point, maybe that's why they cost so much. I don't believe that most high end customers keep them that long. It's the second owners who use them more for what they are capable of and keep them for many years. The second owners are not who Toyota is marketing to. Many folks in the income bracket that buy a Cruiser are old enough to still believe 100,000 is a lot of miles on a car and they trade them for something newer. There are a lot of people my age (early 60's) that believe it still and trade or sell their vehicles soon after the 100,000 mile mark. From what I've seen and read most Cruiser owners here are second hand owners. Not many people spend what it takes to buy a new Cruiser and immediately take it off road. The second owner benefits from that reliability and reputation and still pays a premium for a used vehicle, which is OK if they keep it for a lot of years. A friend had an 80 series and bought it new, they drove it 300,000 miles. When they traded it in they only got about 2500 dollars for it from a Toyota dealer.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Excellent point, maybe that's why they cost so much. I don't believe that most high end customers keep them that long. It's the second owners who use them more for what they are capable of and keep them for many years. The second owners are not who Toyota is marketing to. Many folks in the income bracket that buy a Cruiser are old enough to still believe 100,000 is a lot of miles on a car and they trade them for something newer. There are a lot of people my age (early 60's) that believe it still and trade or sell their vehicles soon after the 100,000 mile mark. From what I've seen and read most Cruiser owners here are second hand owners. Not many people spend what it takes to buy a new Cruiser and immediately take it off road. The second owner benefits from that reliability and reputation and still pays a premium for a used vehicle, which is OK if they keep it for a lot of years. A friend had an 80 series and bought it new, they drove it 300,000 miles. When they traded it in they only got about 2500 dollars for it from a Toyota dealer.

Your definition of reliability is a little off. You think selling millions of models is proof and your friend only got 2500 bucks for an 80 with 300000 miles? We all know a dealer gives you less than if you sold it. I'm sure Toyota knows about business, as they sell the fj (which I like and see bunches driving around everyday) in more countries than the U.S. As gm (11 billion dollar bailout) Chrysler (12 billion bailout) and ford, yes ford received 5.9 billion from the gov) may not be as amazing at business as Toyota. Wait my friend just purchased a 2005 Denali for 6000 dollars. That's a huge loss from the original msrp.
I think you are a big 3 fan and are attempting to turn this thread into a Toyota bashing thread.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[Mountainhound]

Over built is how their made. Example not this weekend but last I put a stick up the side of my transmission (94 fzj80) pretty bad deformed hump were shifters are bent rods and piece that connects rod for trans to shifter (sorry not technical) when was happening came out of 4x4 hi, well was trying as I shut it off, but only because 4x4 shifter hit cb that was right above. Anyway I not only drove out of woods but didn't just head straight home I took a couple extra fun trails on way. Everything works except first gear, it works in trans just lever wont go that far. Now I know if what happened in anything but the cruiser I would have been getting towed out of the woods. Not me still driving it. Fixing it today.

 

[toylandcruiser]

What? You don't think a Furd Expedition is more reliable than a Land Cruiser?? That's crazy talk!!





Oh, wait. I forgot we're not in opposite land. Mr Justcuz clearly knows everything about "reliability" having owned vehicles from the 50s and 60s. Just cuz there are a few restored or reborn Willys running around doesn't make them reliable. Cool, sure. Reliable, I seriously doubt it.

Yea Willys with their super tiny thin axles and super thin weak chassis. Super heavy duty t90 3 speed and itty bitty Dana 18 t case is the standard for beef and strength the world over. When anyone goes to Africa on a safari or explore they alway request a Willys wagon.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[doug720]

The problem for all the "old school" type 4X4's like the LandCruiser, and the likely killer of this type of vehicle, is going to be CAFE - Corporate Average Fuel Economy mandates.

In rules and regulations passed several years back, vehicle manufacturers are required to bring their corporate light truck (under 41 Sq.ft.) fleets CAFE up to an average of 34 mpg in 2016, and 50 mpg by 2025 - See chart below.

This will likely kill off the type vehicles we have typically used in our adventures. Yes, something will replace them, but what, at what cost and at what loss of capability and size?

CAFE cuts both ways...



Agreed standards by model year, 2011-2025
2011-2025 CAFE standards for each model year in miles per gallon.[49] Model Year Passenger Cars Light Trucks
"footprint": 41 sq ft (3.8 m2) or smaller (e.g. 2011 Honda Fit) "footprint": 55 sq ft (5.1 m2) or bigger (e.g. Mercedes-Benz S-Class) "footprint": 41 sq ft (3.8 m2) or smaller (e.g. Chevy s10) "footprint": 75 sq ft (7.0 m2) or bigger (e.g. Ford F-150)

CAFE EPA Window Sticker CAFE EPA Window Sticker CAFE EPA Window Sticker CAFE EPA Window Sticker
2012 36 27 28 21 30 23 22 17
2013 37 28 28.5 22 31 24 22.5 17
2014 38 28 29 22 32 24 23 18
2015 39 29 30 23 33 25 23.5 18
2016 41 31 31 24 34 26 24.5 19
2017 44 33 33 25 36 27 25 19
2018 45 34 34 26 37 28 25 19
2019 47 35 35 26 38 28 25 19
2020 49 36 36 27 39 29 25 19
2021 51 37 38 28 42 31 25 19
2022 53 38 40 30 44 33 26 20
2023 56 40 42 31 46 34 27 21
2024 58 41 44 33 48 36 28.5 22

2025 60 43 46 34 50 37 30 23

 

[justcuz]

L

Your definition of reliability is a little off. You think selling millions of models is proof and your friend only got 2500 bucks for an 80 with 300000 miles? We all know a dealer gives you less than if you sold it. I'm sure Toyota knows about business, as they sell the fj (which I like and see bunches driving around everyday) in more countries than the U.S. As gm (11 billion dollar bailout) Chrysler (12 billion bailout) and ford, yes ford received 5.9 billion from the gov) may not be as amazing at business as Toyota. Wait my friend just purchased a 2005 Denali for 6000 dollars. That's a huge loss from the original msrp.
I think you are a big 3 fan and are attempting to turn this thread into a Toyota bashing thread.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

No not at all, I like Land Cruisers, but not exclusively. Not bashing or trying to turn the thread around, just a reply to the original question about why they are so expensive. I knew my friend would not get market value at the dealer, in fact I offered to pay him 500 dollars more than his trade in value. Of course the dealer knew he was going to make a profit of off it so when Mike went back to buy his new vehicle the dealer would not do the deal without the Cruiser trade in. Read, don't read into what I wrote.

 

[justcuz]

L

Your definition of reliability is a little off. You think selling millions of models is proof and your friend only got 2500 bucks for an 80 with 300000 miles? We all know a dealer gives you less than if you sold it. I'm sure Toyota knows about business, as they sell the fj (which I like and see bunches driving around everyday) in more countries than the U.S. As gm (11 billion dollar bailout) Chrysler (12 billion bailout) and ford, yes ford received 5.9 billion from the gov) may not be as amazing at business as Toyota. Wait my friend just purchased a 2005 Denali for 6000 dollars. That's a huge loss from the original msrp.
I think you are a big 3 fan and are attempting to turn this thread into a Toyota bashing thread.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

No not at all, I like Land Cruisers, but not exclusively. Not bashing or trying to turn the thread around, just a reply to the original question about why they are so expensive. I knew my friend would not get market value at the dealer, in fact I offered to pay him 500 dollars more than his trade in value. Of course the dealer knew he was going to make a profit of off it so when Mike went back to buy his new vehicle the dealer would not do the deal without the Cruiser trade in. Read, don't read into what I wrote.

 

[toylandcruiser]

L

No not at all, I like Land Cruisers, but not exclusively. Not bashing or trying to turn the thread around, just a reply to the original question about why they are so expensive. I knew my friend would not get market value at the dealer, in fact I offered to pay him 500 dollars more than his trade in value. Of course the dealer knew he was going to make a profit of off it so when Mike went back to buy his new vehicle the dealer would not do the deal without the Cruiser trade in. Read, don't read into what I wrote.

Taking you at face value



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[justcuz]

Yea Willys with their super tiny thin axles and super thin weak chassis. Super heavy duty t90 3 speed and itty bitty Dana 18 t case is the standard for beef and strength the world over. When anyone goes to Africa on a safari or explore they alway request a Willys wagon.



"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

They used a lot of Land Rovers that were not much stronger. Jeeps were driven all over Europe and Africa during and after WWII, same spindly running gear. That same spindly running gear assisted in giving you the right to quote the Constitution and the freedom to buy whatever vehicle you want today. Without Jeep and GMC there would be no Land Cruiser. What do you think they used as a developmental template?

 

[toylandcruiser]

They used a lot of Land Rovers that were not much stronger. Jeeps were driven all over Europe and Africa during and after WWII, same spindly running gear. That same spindly running gear assisted in giving you the right to quote the Constitution and the freedom to buy whatever vehicle you want today. Without Jeep and GMC there would be no Land Cruiser. What do you think they used as a developmental template?

And? This doesn't prove anything. Your forgetting about all the times those sweet Willys broke down. Land Rover ruled Australia, something like 90% of the 4wds were rovers. Once Toyota showed up Land Rover ownership dropped to like 4%. WWII would have been won with or without the Willys. FYI jeeps do not fire weapons. Soldiers do. Toyota just improved on jeeps. But I'm done with you and desire to not turn this thread into a retarded argument. So Im not responding to you anymore.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

 

[justcuz]

Thank you.